ROAR to 4 cell....
11-24-2006, 08:45 PM
#316
Hara using 4 chargers to charge 4-cells....everything that happens in sedan
is instantly flash news and taken for granted it is truely new.
we have one sponsored oval racer who was using 4 LRP Q Pulsar chargers last year to charge each cell individually on his 4 cell packs at local club events. he told me when he that he quit (2005) when the competition level he was competing against diminished. he had been doing this with other chargers that would do 1 cell when 2400 nicads were still being run. Some locals here used to raze him about it being overkill and unneccesary until 2 years ago when they went to the Snowbirds and were surprized to see some other Oval racers charging 4-cells packs with 4 chargers
is instantly flash news and taken for granted it is truely new.
we have one sponsored oval racer who was using 4 LRP Q Pulsar chargers last year to charge each cell individually on his 4 cell packs at local club events. he told me when he that he quit (2005) when the competition level he was competing against diminished. he had been doing this with other chargers that would do 1 cell when 2400 nicads were still being run. Some locals here used to raze him about it being overkill and unneccesary until 2 years ago when they went to the Snowbirds and were surprized to see some other Oval racers charging 4-cells packs with 4 chargers
11-24-2006, 09:01 PM
#317
Tech Elite
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Youd; think that something of this magnitude would appear in the minutes of the most recent Ex Comm meeting...
http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/...ng_Summary.pdf
http://www.roarracing.com/downloads/...ng_Summary.pdf
11-24-2006, 09:03 PM
#318
Originally Posted by Advil
Went to the track today to unplug from all of this B.S. and just turn some laps. While I was there I talked to some of the racers that showed up to do the same thing.....
No one wanted to go 4 cell. Not one. The Stock guys just laughed at me and the few 19T guys that were there made rude comments about ROAR.
I am SURE that Adrian is pushing this agenda with ROAR using his position as Promotions Director on the EXCOM to get gain their ear. I think he is miss guided in thinking that this is a cure for what ails TC racing but he will still push this to the limit at ROAR. I am willing to bet money that he has already talked to Scotty Ernst, Fred Medel, Mike Boylan, and even probably Mr Bill to secure their support if ROAR goes to 4 cell. Please let these guys know that this is not what WE want and that they should consider this BEFORE making their decision on following ROAR or not.
Who wants to race 4 cell 19T? NOBODY!
Who wants to race 4 cell stock? NOBODY!
Who wants to race 4 cell mod???? Adrian and his cronies......
No one wanted to go 4 cell. Not one. The Stock guys just laughed at me and the few 19T guys that were there made rude comments about ROAR.
I am SURE that Adrian is pushing this agenda with ROAR using his position as Promotions Director on the EXCOM to get gain their ear. I think he is miss guided in thinking that this is a cure for what ails TC racing but he will still push this to the limit at ROAR. I am willing to bet money that he has already talked to Scotty Ernst, Fred Medel, Mike Boylan, and even probably Mr Bill to secure their support if ROAR goes to 4 cell. Please let these guys know that this is not what WE want and that they should consider this BEFORE making their decision on following ROAR or not.
Who wants to race 4 cell 19T? NOBODY!
Who wants to race 4 cell stock? NOBODY!
Who wants to race 4 cell mod???? Adrian and his cronies......
11-24-2006, 09:04 PM
#319
17T Spec motor
6-cell ridiculous for 12th car.............?
back in 2002 there was a race report on the 1/12th scale EFRA Championship by a CRC European Team member: Bachnofer (spelling?). from what i remember reading...there was some major controversy because initially they ran 4-cell any wind allowed and 6-cell 17T Spec motor in mod together. Many of the top drivers (who are still europes top drivers 4 years later) after the first heats protested, threathened to walk out, arguements insued, etc. might be able to still get ahold of him or maybe CRC, and get the article. 4 cells where slightly faster in the infield, but the speed of the 6-cell/17T cars was demoralizing and could regain losses. 6 cell cars due to weight had conflicting lines and came out on top in wrecks, bumps, etc. none of the 6 cell cars had rec-pks or had problems dumping. they were eventually split up.
Ironicly, within the last year, i was on rctech reading in a thread about 12th racing in europe and some wanting to do inter-club racing, etc. and saw that 4 vs 6 cells was a issue when selecting where to run or what clubs to include
back in 2002 there was a race report on the 1/12th scale EFRA Championship by a CRC European Team member: Bachnofer (spelling?). from what i remember reading...there was some major controversy because initially they ran 4-cell any wind allowed and 6-cell 17T Spec motor in mod together. Many of the top drivers (who are still europes top drivers 4 years later) after the first heats protested, threathened to walk out, arguements insued, etc. might be able to still get ahold of him or maybe CRC, and get the article. 4 cells where slightly faster in the infield, but the speed of the 6-cell/17T cars was demoralizing and could regain losses. 6 cell cars due to weight had conflicting lines and came out on top in wrecks, bumps, etc. none of the 6 cell cars had rec-pks or had problems dumping. they were eventually split up.
Ironicly, within the last year, i was on rctech reading in a thread about 12th racing in europe and some wanting to do inter-club racing, etc. and saw that 4 vs 6 cells was a issue when selecting where to run or what clubs to include
11-24-2006, 09:07 PM
#320
All that wasted battery capacity.
with six cells makes no sense to me. How many seconds of run time do we all burn off after a 5 minute race. It's a waste. I'm sure that could be a reason why batteries don't last as long. Motor companies won't make better motors...oh...wait...it's called brushless. 
Companies are always tring to up the voltage and get lower IRs. It's only 5-6 guys here that race at big events that are pushing for six cells. Most club guys are in it for the fun of it. Two cells won't change anything but help keep prices down and give us more packs to run for less. I don't think it's the club level guys that's fighting it. What are your self interests? So a small percentage of you folks can race with the big dogs and compete? Four cells are better for the club racer on a budget. Lipos as the saving grace for RC anyway.
Companies are always tring to up the voltage and get lower IRs. It's only 5-6 guys here that race at big events that are pushing for six cells. Most club guys are in it for the fun of it. Two cells won't change anything but help keep prices down and give us more packs to run for less. I don't think it's the club level guys that's fighting it. What are your self interests? So a small percentage of you folks can race with the big dogs and compete? Four cells are better for the club racer on a budget. Lipos as the saving grace for RC anyway.
11-24-2006, 09:37 PM
#321
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
Has anyone ever considered seeing how a 2wd touring car would work?
TAMIYA..............
http://rctech.net/forum/showthread.php?t=91489
I can see it now....First battery wars...then Chassis wars....
-Shookie <><
11-24-2006, 09:40 PM
#322
quote:
Don't fear change. This happened with oval several years ago, and the change has been for the better. 4 cell oval classes now are faster than their 6 cell counterparts of a few years ago.
yeah, when 6-cell oval was running 2000-3000mah packs with the stock motor technology from 7-8 years ago. some still run 6-cell pan oval classes, it is a very small group, but still run. 6 cell maximum, still in the ROAR 2006 Rules.
the most popular oval classes are 27T/13.5 or 19T/4300 with BL taking over more and more every weekend it seems. Most Oval tracks are smaller than back then also, 6-cells in any pan class these days is considered overkill.
TC weigh more than pancars and can only be lightened up very little. in my opinion 27T and 13.5BL would need to be reconsidered due to the TC weight.
has anyone done a test with a 4-cell TC to see what motor with 4, would equal out to a 27T/13.5 with 6? maybe 19t or 4300/10.5 motors would be the new stock
Don't fear change. This happened with oval several years ago, and the change has been for the better. 4 cell oval classes now are faster than their 6 cell counterparts of a few years ago.
yeah, when 6-cell oval was running 2000-3000mah packs with the stock motor technology from 7-8 years ago. some still run 6-cell pan oval classes, it is a very small group, but still run. 6 cell maximum, still in the ROAR 2006 Rules.
the most popular oval classes are 27T/13.5 or 19T/4300 with BL taking over more and more every weekend it seems. Most Oval tracks are smaller than back then also, 6-cells in any pan class these days is considered overkill.
TC weigh more than pancars and can only be lightened up very little. in my opinion 27T and 13.5BL would need to be reconsidered due to the TC weight.
has anyone done a test with a 4-cell TC to see what motor with 4, would equal out to a 27T/13.5 with 6? maybe 19t or 4300/10.5 motors would be the new stock
11-24-2006, 09:48 PM
#323
Originally Posted by Doug D
Look at Cleveland, a whooping 31 Modified entrants, and out of the 31 I think only 5 of those are not factory....man, what a brilliant decision!... 
I think people are justly intimidated by racing with the factory pros, and certain high end racers. Just how many laps down do I want to be?
You can't blame equipment either, the top 10 mod pros are good, REAL good. If you can take the fastest cars in the world and have all your laps be within .1 seconds, you've proven you have what it takes. Those guys could show up at your track, and beat the average guy there by 4-5 laps, then could swap you cars, and beat you by 6 laps with your own car (while you drive their world champion setup, best of everything car).
11-24-2006, 09:52 PM
#324
Tech Adept
The same lame arguments against any change in the cell count have been spouted ever since 4-cell was hinted at. And I'll bet that only 1 or 2 (if that many) of the people complaining have actually tried it out themselves.
Sure, stock 4-cell TC will be slow. Stock is SUPPOSED to be slow!!! It's only been in the last 3-5 years that Stock, the entry class, has become an elite class. When I started racing, it was very common to see a 50% / 50% split between stock and mod. Now, many tracks struggle to get enough racers to HAVE a mod class. I really hope stock becomes too slow for any sponsored driver to want to race it. Give it back to the hobbyist and help mod grow again.
A very small percentage of the racers are represented here on this forum. And you can't look at Cleveland, Snowbirds or any of the other big races for guidance. These big races pull in the best drivers, not the hobbyists that spend all the money that keeps local tracks and hobby shops open.
Turnout at local on-road racing has been on a steep decline for the last few years. This is a fact, not a rumor. Some tracks may be doing fine, but many are not. Tracks and local hobby shops are closing because they are losing business. This should be proof enough for anybody that it isn't the hardcore racers that pay the bills. We need racing rules that make sense for the largest part of our hobby, not the elite.
Racing isn't just about about ultra high speed, it's about competing to see who is faster within the rules. All forms of racing look at their rules and make changes to keep the competition, cost and even safety in line with reality. It's time the R/C community did this for on-road.
Sure, stock 4-cell TC will be slow. Stock is SUPPOSED to be slow!!! It's only been in the last 3-5 years that Stock, the entry class, has become an elite class. When I started racing, it was very common to see a 50% / 50% split between stock and mod. Now, many tracks struggle to get enough racers to HAVE a mod class. I really hope stock becomes too slow for any sponsored driver to want to race it. Give it back to the hobbyist and help mod grow again.
A very small percentage of the racers are represented here on this forum. And you can't look at Cleveland, Snowbirds or any of the other big races for guidance. These big races pull in the best drivers, not the hobbyists that spend all the money that keeps local tracks and hobby shops open.
Turnout at local on-road racing has been on a steep decline for the last few years. This is a fact, not a rumor. Some tracks may be doing fine, but many are not. Tracks and local hobby shops are closing because they are losing business. This should be proof enough for anybody that it isn't the hardcore racers that pay the bills. We need racing rules that make sense for the largest part of our hobby, not the elite.
Racing isn't just about about ultra high speed, it's about competing to see who is faster within the rules. All forms of racing look at their rules and make changes to keep the competition, cost and even safety in line with reality. It's time the R/C community did this for on-road.
11-24-2006, 09:55 PM
#325
If ROAR wants to do something positive to RC community, ---> tires need new guidelines. Current tires are wallet consumptive : wear very quick and most of the time require traction compound.
I would suggest thicker material ( especially on side wall ), wider ( 26mm wide ), grippier, and hopefully don't need insert.
I would suggest thicker material ( especially on side wall ), wider ( 26mm wide ), grippier, and hopefully don't need insert.
11-24-2006, 10:00 PM
#327
Originally Posted by billjacobs
This is an interesting thread. Both points of view are valid:
Those who advocate 4 cell give these reasons:
1) less weight= cooler motors, slower impact forces, less damage
2) slower cars= cooler motors, easier for beginners to handle cars, slower impact forces, less damage
Those who advocate 4 cell give these reasons:
1) less weight= cooler motors, slower impact forces, less damage
2) slower cars= cooler motors, easier for beginners to handle cars, slower impact forces, less damage
Aren't we talking about a 33% reduction in voltage for about an 8% weight reduction? I don't know if those figures add up to improvement.
11-24-2006, 10:13 PM
#328
gotpez
when i got into sedan in 2002, most everyone ran either a TC3 or Losi XXX-S in sedan and hobby shops could easily stock for those. when TC really hit the "wow, there are other cars out there...explosion", the local hobbyshops could not keep up with or stock: Yokomo, Hot Bodies, Tamiya, HPI, XRAY, Corally, AE, Losi, Kyosho sedan parts for all the newer cars and belt/shaft variations. plus they were also getting hit on the other end by all the big trucks electric or gas, etc, etc. Many racers had to resort to getting parts online and sort of becoming their own hobbyshops. many online shops are having difficulties also.
when i got into sedan in 2002, most everyone ran either a TC3 or Losi XXX-S in sedan and hobby shops could easily stock for those. when TC really hit the "wow, there are other cars out there...explosion", the local hobbyshops could not keep up with or stock: Yokomo, Hot Bodies, Tamiya, HPI, XRAY, Corally, AE, Losi, Kyosho sedan parts for all the newer cars and belt/shaft variations. plus they were also getting hit on the other end by all the big trucks electric or gas, etc, etc. Many racers had to resort to getting parts online and sort of becoming their own hobbyshops. many online shops are having difficulties also.
11-24-2006, 10:16 PM
#329
Personally, I think the new trend will be the rubber tire class.
A four cells would help those running rubber tires. In fact, I think the 4300 would have too much power for spec rubber tires. I think the 13.5 with sintered rotor, lipo and rubber tires will be the new wave in club racing. Leave the mod racing open, six cells and what ever motor. That will move them folks up to mod class. Anders, it's funny, your right, they want speed but many race in stock and 19t.
ever motor. That will move them folks up to mod class. Anders, it's funny, your right, they want speed but many race in stock and 19t.
11-24-2006, 10:17 PM
#330
Originally Posted by gotpez
Sure, stock 4-cell TC will be slow. Stock is SUPPOSED to be slow!!! It's only been in the last 3-5 years that Stock, the entry class, has become an elite class. When I started racing, it was very common to see a 50% / 50% split between stock and mod. Now, many tracks struggle to get enough racers to HAVE a mod class. I really hope stock becomes too slow for any sponsored driver to want to race it. Give it back to the hobbyist and help mod grow again.