2LikesXray T4 '13
03-24-2013, 01:27 PM
#3046
They are both very nice.
I really like the springs. They came about sort of "accidentally". In trying to replicate spring rates from HPI and Yokomo, we found some really curious qualities on springs when you make them with 1.5mm wire and so short.
Turns out the springs behave like progressive springs due to the coils collapsing over 50% of their range under normal working situations. This makes a spring that compliments the T4 a lot. Our progressive springs actually do change almost 1.0lb over the usable compression range.
Most springs change about 0.4-0.5 lb over the usable range. This is a spring we would call "linear" and what our carpet springs do.
What is interesting was what we found when testing XRAY springs. We do all our spring testing with AVID's spring testing machine. This is a precise, purpose built spring tester and the readings are accurate to 0.001lb/in.
XRAY linear springs are very linear. Very linear. Their variation is only about 0.3lb/in over the usable range. This is very low for a spring. Lowest I have tested to this day. What is surprising is their progressive springs.
From the tests we ran, we tested 5 sets of 2.3-2.6 and 5 sets of 2.5-2.8, we found out 2 things:
1.The springs don't act very progressive. The rates on the 2.3-2.6 averaged out to a 14.5-14.7 lb spring and the 2.5-2.8 averaged out to a 14.4-14.6lb spring, which leads to:
2.The 2.5-2.8 springs are slightly softer than the 2.3-2.6 springs. We ran the tests over and over again, trying different compression lengths and processes, and we always got the same result.
For the springs we tested, we found the rates to be:
XRAY Progressive:
2.3-2.6: 14.5-14.7
2.5-2.8: 14.4-14.6
XRAY Linear:
2.9: 16.5 lb/in
2.7: 15.4lb/in
When on the track, the RSD Silver provided a little bit better steering response than the 2.7 when used in the front which was the typical spring that I had been running. In the rear, the spring behaved similarly to the 2.3-2.6, but it stopped rolling the rear end a little bit sooner, making the car a little more stable. It also provided a little more rotation in the middle of the corner. This is for modified.
For my 13.5 car I found to like the silver up front and the carpet black by the end of the night. This allowed for more rear body roll which aided the car with better steering, however I did not have a second set of silvers to try in the rear. These might have been better.
Overall, I gained 1 tenth of a second with my mod car to a new fast lap of 10.6 at our local track and matched my fastest lap with the 13.5 to a 10.9 with the RSD goodies. I was running on worn tires though, so fresher rubber may have been better.
I really like the springs. They came about sort of "accidentally". In trying to replicate spring rates from HPI and Yokomo, we found some really curious qualities on springs when you make them with 1.5mm wire and so short.
Turns out the springs behave like progressive springs due to the coils collapsing over 50% of their range under normal working situations. This makes a spring that compliments the T4 a lot. Our progressive springs actually do change almost 1.0lb over the usable compression range.
Most springs change about 0.4-0.5 lb over the usable range. This is a spring we would call "linear" and what our carpet springs do.
What is interesting was what we found when testing XRAY springs. We do all our spring testing with AVID's spring testing machine. This is a precise, purpose built spring tester and the readings are accurate to 0.001lb/in.
XRAY linear springs are very linear. Very linear. Their variation is only about 0.3lb/in over the usable range. This is very low for a spring. Lowest I have tested to this day. What is surprising is their progressive springs.
From the tests we ran, we tested 5 sets of 2.3-2.6 and 5 sets of 2.5-2.8, we found out 2 things:
1.The springs don't act very progressive. The rates on the 2.3-2.6 averaged out to a 14.5-14.7 lb spring and the 2.5-2.8 averaged out to a 14.4-14.6lb spring, which leads to:
2.The 2.5-2.8 springs are slightly softer than the 2.3-2.6 springs. We ran the tests over and over again, trying different compression lengths and processes, and we always got the same result.
For the springs we tested, we found the rates to be:
XRAY Progressive:
2.3-2.6: 14.5-14.7
2.5-2.8: 14.4-14.6
XRAY Linear:
2.9: 16.5 lb/in
2.7: 15.4lb/in
When on the track, the RSD Silver provided a little bit better steering response than the 2.7 when used in the front which was the typical spring that I had been running. In the rear, the spring behaved similarly to the 2.3-2.6, but it stopped rolling the rear end a little bit sooner, making the car a little more stable. It also provided a little more rotation in the middle of the corner. This is for modified.
For my 13.5 car I found to like the silver up front and the carpet black by the end of the night. This allowed for more rear body roll which aided the car with better steering, however I did not have a second set of silvers to try in the rear. These might have been better.
Overall, I gained 1 tenth of a second with my mod car to a new fast lap of 10.6 at our local track and matched my fastest lap with the 13.5 to a 10.9 with the RSD goodies. I was running on worn tires though, so fresher rubber may have been better.
03-24-2013, 02:18 PM
#3047
They are both very nice.
I really like the springs. They came about sort of "accidentally". In trying to replicate spring rates from HPI and Yokomo, we found some really curious qualities on springs when you make them with 1.5mm wire and so short.
Turns out the springs behave like progressive springs due to the coils collapsing over 50% of their range under normal working situations. This makes a spring that compliments the T4 a lot. Our progressive springs actually do change almost 1.0lb over the usable compression range.
Most springs change about 0.4-0.5 lb over the usable range. This is a spring we would call "linear" and what our carpet springs do.
What is interesting was what we found when testing XRAY springs. We do all our spring testing with AVID's spring testing machine. This is a precise, purpose built spring tester and the readings are accurate to 0.001lb/in.
XRAY linear springs are very linear. Very linear. Their variation is only about 0.3lb/in over the usable range. This is very low for a spring. Lowest I have tested to this day. What is surprising is their progressive springs.
From the tests we ran, we tested 5 sets of 2.3-2.6 and 5 sets of 2.5-2.8, we found out 2 things:
1.The springs don't act very progressive. The rates on the 2.3-2.6 averaged out to a 14.5-14.7 lb spring and the 2.5-2.8 averaged out to a 14.4-14.6lb spring, which leads to:
2.The 2.5-2.8 springs are slightly softer than the 2.3-2.6 springs. We ran the tests over and over again, trying different compression lengths and processes, and we always got the same result.
For the springs we tested, we found the rates to be:
XRAY Progressive:
2.3-2.6: 14.5-14.7
2.5-2.8: 14.4-14.6
XRAY Linear:
2.9: 16.5 lb/in
2.7: 15.4lb/in
When on the track, the RSD Silver provided a little bit better steering response than the 2.7 when used in the front which was the typical spring that I had been running. In the rear, the spring behaved similarly to the 2.3-2.6, but it stopped rolling the rear end a little bit sooner, making the car a little more stable. It also provided a little more rotation in the middle of the corner. This is for modified.
For my 13.5 car I found to like the silver up front and the carpet black by the end of the night. This allowed for more rear body roll which aided the car with better steering, however I did not have a second set of silvers to try in the rear. These might have been better.
Overall, I gained 1 tenth of a second with my mod car to a new fast lap of 10.6 at our local track and matched my fastest lap with the 13.5 to a 10.9 with the RSD goodies. I was running on worn tires though, so fresher rubber may have been better.
I really like the springs. They came about sort of "accidentally". In trying to replicate spring rates from HPI and Yokomo, we found some really curious qualities on springs when you make them with 1.5mm wire and so short.
Turns out the springs behave like progressive springs due to the coils collapsing over 50% of their range under normal working situations. This makes a spring that compliments the T4 a lot. Our progressive springs actually do change almost 1.0lb over the usable compression range.
Most springs change about 0.4-0.5 lb over the usable range. This is a spring we would call "linear" and what our carpet springs do.
What is interesting was what we found when testing XRAY springs. We do all our spring testing with AVID's spring testing machine. This is a precise, purpose built spring tester and the readings are accurate to 0.001lb/in.
XRAY linear springs are very linear. Very linear. Their variation is only about 0.3lb/in over the usable range. This is very low for a spring. Lowest I have tested to this day. What is surprising is their progressive springs.
From the tests we ran, we tested 5 sets of 2.3-2.6 and 5 sets of 2.5-2.8, we found out 2 things:
1.The springs don't act very progressive. The rates on the 2.3-2.6 averaged out to a 14.5-14.7 lb spring and the 2.5-2.8 averaged out to a 14.4-14.6lb spring, which leads to:
2.The 2.5-2.8 springs are slightly softer than the 2.3-2.6 springs. We ran the tests over and over again, trying different compression lengths and processes, and we always got the same result.
For the springs we tested, we found the rates to be:
XRAY Progressive:
2.3-2.6: 14.5-14.7
2.5-2.8: 14.4-14.6
XRAY Linear:
2.9: 16.5 lb/in
2.7: 15.4lb/in
When on the track, the RSD Silver provided a little bit better steering response than the 2.7 when used in the front which was the typical spring that I had been running. In the rear, the spring behaved similarly to the 2.3-2.6, but it stopped rolling the rear end a little bit sooner, making the car a little more stable. It also provided a little more rotation in the middle of the corner. This is for modified.
For my 13.5 car I found to like the silver up front and the carpet black by the end of the night. This allowed for more rear body roll which aided the car with better steering, however I did not have a second set of silvers to try in the rear. These might have been better.
Overall, I gained 1 tenth of a second with my mod car to a new fast lap of 10.6 at our local track and matched my fastest lap with the 13.5 to a 10.9 with the RSD goodies. I was running on worn tires though, so fresher rubber may have been better.
03-25-2013, 02:22 AM
#3049
Where do Xray T4 2.5's fit in?
03-25-2013, 03:31 AM
#3050
Tech Apprentice
Very interesting spring comparison chart. I expected a progressive measurement for the Yokomo BLUE/PINK springs and would be interested to see that as well since they used to be the spring to have for carpet at least before the Xray short shock era...
03-25-2013, 03:31 AM
#3051
Tech Apprentice
03-25-2013, 04:37 AM
#3052
Tech Rookie
Hi RSD representitive, when will be the RSD bladder for T4 shock available? Looking foward to it
03-25-2013, 06:33 AM
#3054
Tech Adept
Out of curiosity, has anyone crash tested the RSD DCJ??
03-25-2013, 06:43 AM
#3055
, so far they seem to be holding up better than Xray's originals
03-25-2013, 11:13 AM
#3058
We are still working with the bladder factory to get them right. It will be a while, but we are working on them.
As for the Carpet spring set, we are working on 1 more rate in order to release a set of 4. These should be available in about 2-3 weeks. The Carpet spring set will follow.
03-25-2013, 09:05 PM
#3059
Cristian,
Thank you much for the information, and effort, on the spring chart. It's definitely helping me make sense of some of my testing in regards to the xray progressives.
If you do end up finding time to test the 2.5s from Xray that would be great.
I look forward to testing your new springs.
Thanks again,
Ethan
Thank you much for the information, and effort, on the spring chart. It's definitely helping me make sense of some of my testing in regards to the xray progressives.
If you do end up finding time to test the 2.5s from Xray that would be great.
I look forward to testing your new springs.
Thanks again,
Ethan
03-25-2013, 09:17 PM
#3060
Just ran my T4 for the first time today.
I used the included baseline carpet setup included with the kit. I was running on a short indoor carpet track with no groove set in yet. CS-22 tires.
Having on-power understeer and off power oversteer. First I decreased rear droop and then subsequently took out the rear ARB. I didn't see any large improvements. I wonder what to change next... I wouldn't be so concerned, but I feel I'm pretty far off a stable car with the stock setup.
I used the included baseline carpet setup included with the kit. I was running on a short indoor carpet track with no groove set in yet. CS-22 tires.
Having on-power understeer and off power oversteer. First I decreased rear droop and then subsequently took out the rear ARB. I didn't see any large improvements. I wonder what to change next... I wouldn't be so concerned, but I feel I'm pretty far off a stable car with the stock setup.