tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

Hey Paulie, congrats on winning the car, and being handed by a MS himself! If you have a problem getting HPI parts and not Tamiyas, I say stick with the DF-03MS. It's my favorite car right now, and that's from a guy who owns a B44...

There is a few key parts that you should consider upgrading to make it robust, unfortunately, these parts aren't made in Japan but rather in HK (which should'nt be a problem getting since you have an internet connection. Browse through this thread to see what kinds of parts are available. I highly recommend the GPM front lower gearbox, which is available from RC-Mall.

Since the MS kit has all the Tamiya hopups, there isn't much more you need to get... The carbon fiber chassis makes it look nice, but it's not a necessary upgrade... Another key thing to get would be the Five Star FS-7051, front and rear chassis brace. 3Racing has this as well, but they don't make the aluminum front brace, they have a carbon fiber one.

If you live near Tamiya's Factory, I say forget the HPI. Parts support is one of the biggest driving factors if you plan to race/bash with it...

pgeldz

Hmm, I've read that this kit may be front heave when jumping. Is that true? fi so, do you think the aluminum front lower gearbox would make that worse?

I saw the review on oople.com that they had to dremel out the chassis to make the Lipo connectors fit. I wanted to use my Orion 3800 Carbon Lipo and they have the same sort of connection as the battery used in teh oople review. Is it a problem to dremel out that portion of the chassis? Would it make it weaker?

Also, do you know of a carbon chassis conversion available that still uses the original battery down the center, or are they all split configuration (3 cells on each side)?

Do you have a link to these? I've never heard of that company and can't find any info on them.

I'm really excited to build this kit. In the raffle, the Yokomo Pro driver game me some CHAMP brand titainum screws, 3x10 button head to be exact. I noticed that the DF-03 uses many of them. All I need to buy now are and handfull of other ones, and I'm gonna build it with all titainium hex head screws. Should be much more easier to build that way.

I really have no idea what items are prone to breaking on this car, since I'm mostly an on-road kind of guy. I'm only a fan of aluminum in certain places. Too much and it adds weight, and depending in the part, it bends and stays bent, where plastic will either bend and bend back, or snap (and snapping is good - at least I know the part is broken, unlike bent aluminum where it's hard to find out why the car isn't handling right, etc.). I usually get aluminum steering knuckles because the kingpins usually rip out of the plastic pretty easily.

I know for sure I'll get the rest of the hex head titainium screws, but maybe I'll wait on the other stuff until I start breaking parts, etc.

If dremeling the chassis to fit the Lipo battery connection will weaken the chassis, I'd look into a carbon conversion that keeps the center stick pack layout if ones available.

Please let me know what you think about all of this. I'd like to build it right the first time.



- Paulie

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

I'm weary of what some of the owners said about how it's front-heavy, but I never subscribed to that notion. I think any vehicle can feel front heavy if the suspensions aren't set up "right." "Right" meaning for jumps. My B44 sometimes felt as if the front was too light, other times too heavy, and nothing was added or removed from that buggy, the only difference in the feel was suspension setup. I think if you stiffened up the suspension in the front, it will jump right. This will have to be with experimentation as well as personal preference. I tend to like setting it up a bit stiff in the front so the car launches level, and letting go of the throttle to nose down onto the backside of the next jump.

I don't think it would be a problem, so long as you take out just enough material to gain access to that connection. Just remember to dremel it with a circular shape to retain the strength at that point.

There are three different carbon chassis available. The 3Racing's (the one I got, Hong Kong in origin), preserves the stock layout. There is another that preserves this layout, from Xenon Racing (Japanese origin). I hear that the Xenon fixed the problem of not being able to fit a side-by-side cell configuration that plagued the stock chassis as well as 3Racing's. Not sure about LiPo though.

The third company is KM-RC's chassis (I think they are made in Hong Kong). This chassis is very popular but uses saddle configuraiton, but I don't see the point of using this since it takes away the whole point of going with the DF-03 buggies. If I wanted saddle-configuration, I'll just go back and race my B44 IMO. KM-RC's also moves the steering servo so if you're using Keen Hawk body, it's a problem (don't worry, the MS version comes with Dark Impact body).

The 3Racing's chassis about half the cost of KM-RC's and Xenon's chassis. IMO, 3Racing chassis is VERY high quality. I was actually surprised with the quality since past experience with anything from China/Hong Kong has ended up in disappointment (just look at Walmart, they are full of crappy products from China).

No, I just found out that Five Stars does not have a "www." What an archaic world they live in! It's odd to see any company not have their own domain in the year 2008. Perhaps they will catch up to the year 1998 soon... Their products are excellent, don't understand why they don't want world exposure of their product. Their products are a little pricey however, since they are made in Japan. I think if you buy GPM's front lower gear box, you can skip using the front brace since the hinges are already in aluminum. Just make sure you use the front bumper to keep the two hinges (left and right) from splitting apart...

Being in Japan, you probably will have to go through CHAMP or some other Hobby Store to get good screws. I personally do not like Titanium or Aluminum screws since they are weaker then steel. Titanium is superior in strength-to-weight ratio, but don't be confused, a hardened steel is still stronger then Titanium... But this all comes down to preference.

I bought packs of 50 and 100 from McMaster Carr. They carry EVERYTHING and EVERYTHING in their catalog for machining. Just go on their website and under "fasteners" you'll find almost every type of screw available on the market. I chose stainless steel since I like the finish of the metal, and it's quite sturdy... The four main screws you really need are:

3x10mm button head
3x12mm button head
3x10mm flat head (counter sunk)
3x21mm button head (only used on the lower mounting of the two front shocks).

When you get it from places like McMaster, they are dirt cheap compared to hobby shops. You pay about 5 cent a screw instead of four screws for five dollars.

I'd definitely get the rear chassis brace from 3Racing. I bought everything aluminum from GPM on this car, but only chose to use:

front lower gear box
front c-hub
front steering knuckle
rear hub

from 3racing:
carbon chassis
carbon front shock tower
carbon rear shock tower
alum. rear hinge brace
alum. rear gear box brace
alum steering rack w/ bearings (the 3Racing one didn't cheap out like the other brands by providing you with bearings)

Like all metal to metal fastening, make sure you add thread lock on them to keep them secure. Vibration is a bigger problem with off road...

Since the pictures, I've also swapped out my spur gear to use the RC10B4's spur. You just have to ream out the hole SLIGHTLY since the diameter is already pretty close. This will let you use 48-pitch gears, but as you stated above, you might have access to Tamiya's 0.5 pinions, so this might not be a problem with you. I have a set of 48-pitch pinions, and I really hated that Tamiya didn't stick with 48 pitch gears and decided to use their own funky size (only the DF-03 and this other vintage Tamiya uses the 0.5 gears).

As for breakage, I'll just have to run my car and see Hopefully nothing breaks, but that's just wishful thinking!

pgeldz

Is the MS suspension pretty good? The review at oOple says it's not much different than the standard units, and they are quite soft with not enough pack. How do you find the upgraded suspension on the MS? Is oil in the kit thick enough? Is jumping ok with it? Does the chassis slap a lot? If so, would you advise to use the 1 hole pistions and thicker oil? I have no idea what the stock MS suspension is like but I figured I'd ask in advance.



Cool. I looked at the pics at Oople.com and it seems like one of the battery connections is dangerously close to the driveshaft. Do you think the connection will rub on the shaft? I only ask because I really want to use my LiPo's in this buggy.



I get it, the hingepin mounts break easily. So I can either get the front brace from five star, or skip it and get the aluminum GPM lower gear box. Which is the better option for strenght/weight?

If I get the GPM lower gear box, what bumper to use? The plastic kit one, or GPM's aluminum one. You think the kit one will be strong enough to tie the GPM lower gear box together?

And for the rear hingpin mounts I see you suggested the 3 racing rear chassis brace, and I see it has longer pins going through their brace, so that should aviod the breakage on oOple's review car right?

As for the steering linkage, I'll probably get bearings to replace the bushings, but I'll keep the stock plastic bits.


As for gearing, I'm confused. The kit has 3 spurs in it. 78T in White, 82T in Black, and 85T in White. In the manual, they say to use either 78T or 82T. Then why supply the 85T at all?

Also, which spur and pinion to use for the Castle Creations Sidewinder 5700 combo? That's the system I'm thinking of running.

Again, I really appreciate all of your help. I went to my buddies track today to show them I won the kit and they were really excited for me. They let me run their 2wd stadium trucks and I was HOOKED! Off road is awesome!!!

Please let me know your thoughts...

Respectfully,

- Paulie

pgeldz

One more thing. i just read that the rear bumper is not compatable with the Five Stars rear brace.

Is the rear bumper compatable with the 3 racing rear brace?

- Paulie

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

You're thinking of the stock rear bumper. It is true that once you put the brace on, you can't use the stock rear bumper. What I'm going to use is the rear bumper from T-Bone racing, which is mounted from the four screws underneath the car rather then by the two screws that goes into the rear...

Pound for pound, I rather have the hinge pin brace then the rear bumper...

Another update. I spoke to Adam from www.bahrz.com who makes sway bar kits for the DF-03 cars... He's making them per order basis, so all you have to do is contact him (his email is on his page) and tell him that you are interested in buying it, and he'll kit one up.

http://www.bahrz.com/

http://www.t-bone-racing.com/catalog/i38.html


The new "N" bumpers for the DF-03 comes with a lifetime, but T-Bone does make rear bumpers. You might want to email them and ask them if they have one available. I know that they still sell the old ones made of Delrin on their ebay store...

I bought the Delrin pair, front and rear, because the fronts has a "grumpy" pattern that I like. Plus getting three replacement warranty is good enough for me!

Chris__RC

iTrader: (7)

How does the DF-03MS compare to top kits like the Lazer ZX-5, xxx-4 G+, and B44? Might get 1 but for $300 I could get a xxx-4G+ because it takes SXS batteries.

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

The kit is not $299. It's just Tower Hobbies' weird markup that made it this way. It's really $199 from places like Stella Models. You can find it for $235 at Ultimate, but you gotta pay Orange County Tax.

I'm not sure how one would compare this car against other 4WDs. There are some parts that you need to get to make this vehicle truly raceworthy, and even then, you will end up spending close to the amount of a TRF501x...

I personally own a B44, but I was intrigued by this car since the layout is so unique. That was the driving force (excuse the pun) behind me getting into this car.

Replacements are hard to find but I think there are ways to make this car bullet proof. I hope that with enough following, someone can make a rear aluminum gear box, or at least a hinge plate to make the car truly bullet proof.

The stock parts alone are pretty strong. I've watched a lot of videos where kids jump these things on concrete and it kept on going. But check out the car and my pics, the layout is like a 2WD! Of course, there are disadvantages of the layout, first and foremost with realestate. Another one is that the battery is bottom loaded instead of top loaded, which causes problems like not having a functional undertray but going the chassis-tape route to protect it.

Of course, if you run the stock chassis, the plastic one, you really wouldn't need to protect the bottom since it's plastic. I personally don't cringe at all when plastic chassis gets scratched...

pgeldz

Tom, I have a question about the aftermarket screws...

I've been doing quite a lot of homework in researching the DF-03 and I've found that Tobee and 3Racing make a screw kit using hex head self tapping screws.

Square and Champ make a hex head screw kit but theirs are all machine threads...

Which is better?

Also, I think you may have missed my other question about the Mamba Max 5700 gearing. Using the smallest Tamiya .5 pinion of 23T and the largest .5 spur of 85, can I do the 5700 or is that gearign option no good.

If it's no good, would the 4600 be a better choice?

I'll be going to my hobby shop tonight to see what he has for the DF-03 and how long it will take to get some of the harder to get options parts like Five Star stuff, and such. I'll let you know what I find out. Any help on the above questions would be greatly appreciated.



- Paulie

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

The biggest reason why I bought machine screws was to avoid using self-tapping screws. I personally dislike self tapping screws since the thread count per mm (or inches in imperial) is low compared to machine screws. I don't know why Tamiya decided to use self tapping screws for half the fasteners in the kit. I think this was a poor choice by Tamiya and helps to create a image of a low-end kit. Machine screws are far superior in fastening versus self tapping. I didn't use any self tapping screws at all. But in the end, it's just preference... Self tapping screws for applications such as this, toy cars, are fine.

This is on the subject of gear ratio. Ultimately, the motor sees the tires, so what you want is a good final gear ratio.

Spur divided by pinion multiplied by the transmission ratio is your final drive ratio. On my B44, I used a final ratio of 13.6 with my 5700+mamba that's inside my B44. On these Tamiyas, I believe the transmission's ratio is 3.05. So with a 85, your pinion has to be a 19-tooth to match this same ratio. Again, this final ratio is terrain dependent, this is just a starting point. If you're running on a smooth surface with lots of long stretches, you can gear it taller (higher pinion), but on rough tracks with lots of jumps, you'll need torque so you'll want a smaller pinion. I think 19 tooth is not available in 0.5, so I highly suggest to exchange the spur with a RC10B4/B44 spur gear so you can mate it with 48-pitch pinions.

Jimmy from oople used 48-pitch pinion with the 0.5 spur (they are very close), but he did state that it made a loud whine, as if you had a bad gear, and with powerplants like a 5700Kv motor, you'll end up shredding your spur every run. Better to just get a reamer and just carefully ream out a B4 spur. If B4 spur is hard to come by, a company called Kawada makes a 48-pitch spur for the DF-03 cars... For me, since I'm in the states, Kawada products are hard to come by, so I chose to go the B4/T4/B44 spur route. Besides, I had tons of spares in my toolbox since I've owned cars that utilizes this spur gear...

Remember that many of the parts I got for my car, are from Hong Kong. The best place to order them would be online. Scroll up to some of the older threads where I listed a bunch of online shops that are Hong Kong based. The two that I highly recommend are Stella Models and RC-Mall. Stella (from Stella Models) and Tim from RC-Mall are quick in their shipping. I received my goods in less then 1 week, and they are overseas.

For domestic (at least domestic for me) I highly recommend T-Bone racing for bumpers. Andrea and Rich from T-Bone works really hard to crank out some great products. Their customer service is hands down one of the best. I've used their bumpers on other cars and have broken them in nasty crashes. I've emailed them on Saturdays, received a reply on Sunday, and received my replacements on Wednesday...

Good luck with your DF-03MS. It's a great car right out of the box. I just chose to add parts to get it up to par with some of the high-end vehicles that I've owned/own. Vehicles such as the BJ4WE and my current runner, the B44...

pgeldz

I agree, and I just ordered the Champ Ti set. I have a bunch of spares I got from the raffle (won threee sets of button head 3x10, 45 total). Hopefully I'm taken care of there.

The B4 gears are hard to get locally here. However, I'm glad you mentioned Kawada because I can get their stuff all day long. I use all their connectors and he always has them in stock. If they sell out, he gets more in like every week so I know he has a distributor for Kawada stuff. I'll ask him tomorrow about the availability of the spur conversion. I just went on their website to check it out and it's an 80 tooth spur. My hobbby shop sells every Xenon Racing pinion made so I can get a Xenon Racing pinion to match the Kawada 80T spur.

What size pinion to get for a Mamba 5700 with the 80T Kawada spur? I'd like something that won't heat up crazy fast (or overheat for that matter), and just be good for something in the middle of what you mentioned, maybe a medium sized bumpy track.

Please let me know a good starting point with the 48p 80T spur. Also, to get the gear ratio you mentioned, I'd have to go to an 18t pinion. Lets just asume that that is the optimal final drive I need to get to...is their room in the gear casing to properly mesh the 48p 18T pinion and 80T spur?


I really so appreciate the info Sir. I'm doin a build very similar to yours, but I'm taking a slightly different appproach. Most of the Honk kong shops won't ship to APO boxes, so that sorta limits me to Japanese made stuff. Eagle racing here in Japan is a distrubitor for 3Racing, but stuff takes forever to get here from them, like 3 weeks.

I want the car to be as light as posssible, and not use to many aluminum parts. I was thinking the only hop ups I'd get besides the screw set and proper gears are the Five Stars chassis braces, and the T-bones bumpers like you mentioned. Plus a new set of Tamiya diff halves to put in the rear, as i read they are all metal unlike the kit read diff halves, and they drop right in. I'm sure they are cheaper than going with tne ones from Square, as they are quite expensive here.

The aluminum hubs/carriers/knuckles are nice, but from what I've been reading and what you mentioned a while back is that the car is quite durable in stock form. I think the chassis braces and the bumpers would negate the need for the other aluminum bits right away. If I break them, I can get new plastic parts in 2 days. If I break the same part twice, then I'd buy the aluminum replacement.

Again, I really do appreciate your help with everything. I can't wait to get this build on! Please let me know about a good startign point for a pinion with the 80T Kawada spur...

- Paulie

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

I'm not really sure how small of a pinion will the motor mount accomodate for an 80T pinion. You'd have to experiment with it to let us know!

For a hot motor like the 5700Kv, I'd definitely would keep the final drive ratio to something between 12 and 14...

To answer your earlier question, I think the stock front bumper is more then capable of holding the two front hinge halves for the aluminum front lower gear box. What you can do for now is use the stock front lower gear box and have the aluminum one on order. Then swap it out if it ever breaks...

I'm going to be experimenting with the pinion fitting issue as well. My B4 spur is a 78T spur, so I'm going to see what my lower limit is on the pinion.

Regarding your question about shocks, I wasn't too sure about what kind of oil the kit comes with. It's just a yellow bottle. I've read somewhere that it's equivalent to a 50W oil, but it sure doesn't look like it...

I stuck 45W in the front and 30W in the rear. Jimmy wrote that it felt a little bouncy, but he might be using the 3-hole pistons that comes with the regular DF-03 kits. Since we have the MS kits, there are a whole set of new pistons that comes with the DF-03 aluminum shock kits. I used the two-hole "white" pistons instead of the "black" ones off the parts tree. The "white" pistons felt more quality and I think they were really meant for the aluminum shocks...

For the weight, it will again, depend on your track condition. But it does feel a little more bouncier then my AE shocks... I'll probably end up getting some AE/Losi 50W oil to put in the front with 40W for the rear. I usually like to bias the front with something a bit stiffer...

But remember, the instantaneous "shock" that the absorbers can take before chassis bottoming out is a function of the sum of the weight of the oil and the springs.

For LiPos rubbing on the shaft, I'm not really sure. You might want to PM Jimmy on oople. I don't use LiPos, and actually had to buy some stick packs just so it'll fit inside the battery bay of the 3Racing chassis...

pgeldz

I definitely will. What would the final drive ratio befor something like the 4600Kv motor?

That's a good idea. I think I'm going to use the T-bones bumpers though instead and skip the GMP unit (unless I end up breaking it more than once). I think those T-Bones bumper will help take the load off those other parts quite a bit. We shall see, he he he.


Yeah, it's like 40w I think. But you are right, it does look very thin.

Hmm, Jimmy did use the regular version of the shocks, and you used the Aluminum ones with the white 2 hole pistions and still thought it was a little bouncy. The manual says to use 2 hole on the front, and 3 hole on the rear, using the smaller white pistions.

I also wanted to set up the front slightly stiffer than the rear. So armed with that info, I may use the 1 hole pistion in the front, and 2 hole out back, using the same oil all around, something heavier than the kit stuff, say, the Tamiya medium pack, using the middle one out of that three pack.

I found a solution for that actually. Kawada connecters. They have a bullet banna connector that fits the battery, and then they have this screw in part that has a hole on the end. I'll screw the set together, then solder it so it doesn't come loose, and then fit the wire through the hole which is perpendicular. Tha'll it'll keep it nice and low and flat, and should fit right under the shaft without worrry of rubbing.

Man, I'm getting so excited can't you tell! I'm so hooked on offroad right now!

The only thing I'm a little bummed about is that my Futaba 2.4ghz receiver needs a 6V BEC, and the Mamba only puts out 5V. So I would have to use my old 2 channel radio, or buy the Castle Creations adjustable BEC and wire it in (really didn't want to do that becaue they make you buy additional stuff to be able to actually adjust it, and it comes from teh factory at 5v, pretty silly, since their controller is already at 5v.)

Argghh! What to do what to do.



- Paulie

pgeldz

Uh Oh...

Look what I found! Click the link then at teh top click products. It'll still be in Japanese but look on teh left hand side for "m=.05" Click that and it list a bunch of .5 pinions!

http://translate.google.com/translat...hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Looks like Kawada may make the .5 pinions afterall! They seem to list a 20T, 18T, 16T, 14T, and 12T.

So the thing is, if they make all these choices, and Tamiya makes the 23T, 25T, 26T, 27T and 29T in a .5 also, why would Kawada come out with a spur conversion to use 48p?

Maybe these Kawada .5 pinions won't work afterall?

If they do it might be better to skip the conversion, ans just get the 16T,18T and 20T .5 pinions. Maybe there isn't enough room to move the motor that close? But that can't be it either, if the guy from oOple used the 85 with a 19T.

Kawada does list their conversion as "Super Duty", so maybe it's just more durable to use that and get the 48p pinions...

Bottom liine, what you do do to get some better options for the Mamba 5700?

Assuming I can get any .5 pinion I want and use it with the 85T .5 Tamiya spur, would you do that or just get the Kawada conversion 80T 48p spur and whatever 48p pinion I want?

Please help!



- Paulie

tom_chang79

iTrader: (13)

That's pretty cool that Kawada makes some of the smaller pinions. With the 85T spur, you can't fit a motor with the stock 26T pinion. I think that's why they greyed it out in their instruction manual, since it was not physically possible to properly mesh the gears with it.

I think Kawada makes the 48 pitch spurs cause there's a market for it. Every major manufacturer in the US uses 48 pitch size for the spur/pinion. 48 pitch is probably the most prominent size in the world... I for one didn't like the 0.5 scheme that Tamiya used, since every pinion gear I have is a 48 pitch scheme... I didn't want to buy a whole set of pinions just for this car. It would be nice if these cars can share. With the B4 spur conversion, now it can!

I would get the 20, 18, and 16-tooth Kawada 0.5 pinions. Gearing the vehicle with 85T spur and 18T would be a good starting point. A 20T would give you a ratio of about 13 to 1. But if you're planning to use a 5700Kv motor, going a bit lower on the pinion wouldn't hurt.

I don't quite understand this. I thought that most receivers these days, you don't need to provide a BEC? I thought BEC was merely used for in case of power loss through the battery?