How to Revive On-Road Racing
03-10-2011, 06:57 AM
#16
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
As the local race director where I'm at, I'm facing the same issue- attendance.
Our local program runs electric touring (17.5 boosted or 13.5 unboosted.. speeds are comparative so we run them together), nitro touring, VTA, 1/10th oval (pan cars), and occasionally 1/12th scale. The only classes that have consistent turnout are VTA and electric touring. The oval guys only seem to show up when there's a points series going on so there's "something in it for them" (which really pisses me off to no end.. support the club regularly or don't bother showing up at all- we don't need your race fees THAT badly). We used to have a novice class, but with the rise of VTA, all of the novices went there. The constant rule changing in VTA has also retarded the growth of the class and kept it from being as big as it could be. Novice used to be one of the largest classes, and now when someone shows up with a stadium truck wanting to race novice, I have nowhere to put them. Unfortunately, when someone sees us racing in the parking lot, they ask where to get a car that they can race so we point them to the hobby shop on the premises. 9 times out of 10 they store employees end up selling them some Traxxas VXL monstrosity which will never fall within a racing class, so we never see that person again.
One thing that gets me though, is that I know we have local racers with cars that can be raced in existing classes. We run a charity race for the American Cancer Society every year, and this year we had 14 pan cars (oval) and 13 VTA cars. At any given club race, we MIGHT get 8 oval cars and 6 VTA cars. WHERE ARE THESE OTHER PEOPLE AT? I know they aren't racing somewhere else, because there isn't anywhere to race. Right now we have 8 offroad tracks within a 2.5 hour drive, a single carpet track, and no asphalt tracks within the same area. 5 of those 8 offroad tracks are within an hour of each other. Parking lot racing is still fun and all, but when you're the one setting up and taking down everything, running the races, and still trying to be able to race, it flat-out sucks. The local hobby shop does practically nothing to support the onroad racing program, yet they own/operate the offroad track which has plenty of racers, but no one willing to step up and be the race director and keep things organized. Without onroad attendance, I highly doubt we'll ever get enough attention to get any support from them, either. If those 14 oval and 13 VTA racers showed up every week (and possibly ran additional classes), we could probably get a permanent asphalt track built. I know our area has the racers to support it, because within the last 8 years there have been two commercial asphalt roadcourse/oval in the area (closed due to poor management and idiot property owners, not lack of racers).
I'm at the end of my rope as a race director.. I just don't get it anymore.
Our local program runs electric touring (17.5 boosted or 13.5 unboosted.. speeds are comparative so we run them together), nitro touring, VTA, 1/10th oval (pan cars), and occasionally 1/12th scale. The only classes that have consistent turnout are VTA and electric touring. The oval guys only seem to show up when there's a points series going on so there's "something in it for them" (which really pisses me off to no end.. support the club regularly or don't bother showing up at all- we don't need your race fees THAT badly). We used to have a novice class, but with the rise of VTA, all of the novices went there. The constant rule changing in VTA has also retarded the growth of the class and kept it from being as big as it could be. Novice used to be one of the largest classes, and now when someone shows up with a stadium truck wanting to race novice, I have nowhere to put them. Unfortunately, when someone sees us racing in the parking lot, they ask where to get a car that they can race so we point them to the hobby shop on the premises. 9 times out of 10 they store employees end up selling them some Traxxas VXL monstrosity which will never fall within a racing class, so we never see that person again.
One thing that gets me though, is that I know we have local racers with cars that can be raced in existing classes. We run a charity race for the American Cancer Society every year, and this year we had 14 pan cars (oval) and 13 VTA cars. At any given club race, we MIGHT get 8 oval cars and 6 VTA cars. WHERE ARE THESE OTHER PEOPLE AT? I know they aren't racing somewhere else, because there isn't anywhere to race. Right now we have 8 offroad tracks within a 2.5 hour drive, a single carpet track, and no asphalt tracks within the same area. 5 of those 8 offroad tracks are within an hour of each other. Parking lot racing is still fun and all, but when you're the one setting up and taking down everything, running the races, and still trying to be able to race, it flat-out sucks. The local hobby shop does practically nothing to support the onroad racing program, yet they own/operate the offroad track which has plenty of racers, but no one willing to step up and be the race director and keep things organized. Without onroad attendance, I highly doubt we'll ever get enough attention to get any support from them, either. If those 14 oval and 13 VTA racers showed up every week (and possibly ran additional classes), we could probably get a permanent asphalt track built. I know our area has the racers to support it, because within the last 8 years there have been two commercial asphalt roadcourse/oval in the area (closed due to poor management and idiot property owners, not lack of racers).
I'm at the end of my rope as a race director.. I just don't get it anymore.
Last edited by Serzoni; 03-10-2011 at 07:08 AM.
03-10-2011, 07:28 AM
#17
Tech Master
iTrader: (15)
I think we are creating/limiting too many classes. I'd love to run RCGT and VTA since the cars would be set up similarly, (both rubber times and slow motor). But the fact that I have to have separate motors and tires mean I basically have to have a whole second car. Either put the two classes together, or make them all 21.5 or 17.5 unboosted, that way I can pop off the body and run it back to back!
I dont understand how that since it is so easy to race now (no comm cutting, motor zapping, over charging NIMH, battery dumping) and numbers are dropping. Buying 5 - 10 battery packs? buying 3-5 motors to find the best one? Today you buy 2 Lipos to run back to back and a brushless that can last you (nearly) forever!
my .02
I dont understand how that since it is so easy to race now (no comm cutting, motor zapping, over charging NIMH, battery dumping) and numbers are dropping. Buying 5 - 10 battery packs? buying 3-5 motors to find the best one? Today you buy 2 Lipos to run back to back and a brushless that can last you (nearly) forever!
my .02
Last edited by Double D Donuts; 03-10-2011 at 07:39 AM.
03-10-2011, 07:33 AM
#18
This is in addition to the other classes we normally offer.
03-10-2011, 07:50 AM
#19
The best way to revive on-road is to pave over all the dirt trucks.
03-10-2011, 08:04 AM
#20
hey Louisville,KY...we are here in Nashville....with a great on-road program...come by sometime and check it out....
but I have the solution for you that "saved" on-road here.....
VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA...did I mention
VTA
its the best way to get it going...and trust me , you are not allone...many area programs are getting back on track cause of VTA...Georgia, Alabama< Knoxville, and I think Florida is going to make a go at it as well....
the new rules as of Sept 2010, have made this class...the POOOO...and its solid enough to get the on-road guys back at the track, and draw the newbie in as well....try it and see what happens...and if you need any help...just give a holla...
Myron BATTMAN Kinnard
but I have the solution for you that "saved" on-road here.....
VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA VTA...did I mention
VTA
its the best way to get it going...and trust me , you are not allone...many area programs are getting back on track cause of VTA...Georgia, Alabama< Knoxville, and I think Florida is going to make a go at it as well....
the new rules as of Sept 2010, have made this class...the POOOO...and its solid enough to get the on-road guys back at the track, and draw the newbie in as well....try it and see what happens...and if you need any help...just give a holla...
Myron BATTMAN Kinnard
03-10-2011, 08:05 AM
#21
Tech Regular
On-Road
On road in Indianapolis is alive and doing better than it ever has. Last Sunday we had 58+, the Sunday before that 65+, The Grand Slam had 99+, the week before that we had 75+
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
03-10-2011, 08:07 AM
#23
On road in Indianapolis is alive and doing better than it ever has. Last Sunday we had 58+, the Sunday before that 65+, The Grand Slam had 99+, the week before that we had 75+
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
03-10-2011, 08:14 AM
#24
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (13)
I beg to differ.. going to a motor that is only used for VTA ruined it for many. Now if someone wants to start out in VTA and then step up to another class, they have to buy a new motor (roughly $75), tires ($40), and a body ($25-30). When 21.5 was still the spec, they could have switched over to RCGT or some other slow class with just a change of the body and tires. I know personally that I was going to finally go brushless with mine until the 25.5 rule landed. I've been a holdout running the 4-cell/27t setup until they finally could decide on a set of rules and stick with them. Another problem is that some tracks require a 25.5, while some still allow the 21.5 configuration... so which one do you lay down the money for? This hobby isn't cheap, but I'm not going to keep forking out more cash for motors to run VTA than I do the fast classes. That's just bass-ackwards.
03-10-2011, 08:20 AM
#25
Silvercan/f1 had a pretty good influx of new racers in my area.
Only problem is that the class is starting to get a bit too competitive
and I think it scared off a few of the new guys.
Cars are cheap and the speeds are tame enough for new drivers.
If you wanted to start an f1 class I would suggest spec esc/motor right
from the get go as it will cut down on any silvercan monkey buisness.
Only problem is that the class is starting to get a bit too competitive
and I think it scared off a few of the new guys.
Cars are cheap and the speeds are tame enough for new drivers.
If you wanted to start an f1 class I would suggest spec esc/motor right
from the get go as it will cut down on any silvercan monkey buisness.
03-10-2011, 08:27 AM
#26
On road in Indianapolis is alive and doing better than it ever has. Last Sunday we had 58+, the Sunday before that 65+, The Grand Slam had 99+, the week before that we had 75+
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
We have guys coming from Cincinattii, Dayton, lafayette on a regular basis to run 1/12 and TC.
This has also been a breakout year for 1/12. Finally numbers are increasing instead on declining. Car technology in 1/12 has also changed more in the last 2 years than the previous 10 years.
03-10-2011, 08:36 AM
#27
Have a Tamiya silver can motor class.
03-10-2011, 08:36 AM
#28
I beg to differ.. going to a motor that is only used for VTA ruined it for many. Now if someone wants to start out in VTA and then step up to another class, they have to buy a new motor (roughly $75), tires ($40), and a body ($25-30). When 21.5 was still the spec, they could have switched over to RCGT or some other slow class with just a change of the body and tires. I know personally that I was going to finally go brushless with mine until the 25.5 rule landed. I've been a holdout running the 4-cell/27t setup until they finally could decide on a set of rules and stick with them. Another problem is that some tracks require a 25.5, while some still allow the 21.5 configuration... so which one do you lay down the money for? This hobby isn't cheap, but I'm not going to keep forking out more cash for motors to run VTA than I do the fast classes. That's just bass-ackwards.
We immediately offered options during this transition to help the racers adopt the new motors more affordably. In addition, we still sell a RMF USVTA combo for 105.00.
03-10-2011, 08:38 AM
#29
Oh that's just not nice !!
Lots of good ideas though. I noticed some people mentioning dropping numbers due to rules changing for VTA ,TC and GT. Brings up a point though that we don't often think about. VTA has had 1 major rule change and yes, it hasn't been popular in some peoples minds BUT...that was not the fault of VTA. In order to keep the focus on what the class is designed to be the organizers HAVE to react to the changes in the technology. Thats a fact of life in every technology oriented market. If that wasn't the case, we'd all still be using computers from 5 years ago. In our case, the updated technology directly impacts performance and THAT can make huge problems in spec oriented classes, which should be the largest percentage of racers. RCGT is a perfect example. It started as a way to make racing more affordable, realistic and less "gotta have the fastest, most expensive technology out there". It started great. It failed because nobody reacted to the tech explosion that created secondary issues. Costs increaed dramatically, tires weren't able to handle the higher level of performance so they wore out quickly and made driving harder for newer drivers + the cost when up because you had to replace them more often. Get the picture ?? Higher cost, more skill required, less fun !! Hmmmm....can you spell recipe for disaster !!?? NOW look at RCGT....very few original RCGT programs. Most others are some form of it and are different around the country.
You'll never be able to make every class what everybody wants !! What would happen if 21.5 were the standard for VTA, GT and TC? Holy crap, peple would drop out left and right because they don't want 21.5. How about 17.5 !? Same problem in reverse....too fast for VTA and GT. Tires wear out, harder to do as a newbie, costs go up. Sound familiar ??
Too many people want to race too many classes but they don't want to commit to 1 or 2. You are not the key to on road. The key is in developing NEW people and you MUST provide for them AND those who don't want to become so "hard core" about racing RC. It's a hobby...not a sport.
We as racers, hobby shop owners and club directors get WAY too focused on trying to satisfy the one group that we shouldn't....those who are already in the hobby at whatever level. I'm not increasing my racer numbers by changing my rules because the guy who drives TC also wants to race VTA but doesn't want to buy another motor/esc/or car. I increase my numbers by offering stable classes where the commitment is to LIMIT the number of changes expected due to technology changes. VTA has done that. TCS has done that and had a long,successful program. GT has a chance but not there yet.
No matter what, WE are to blame. Stop looking for ways to make 1 car do it all. Start realizing that we have some great classes and they have their own value but if you don't want to spend on it then don't piss on the rest who might. Those are the people who AREN'T getting involved.
Lots of good ideas though. I noticed some people mentioning dropping numbers due to rules changing for VTA ,TC and GT. Brings up a point though that we don't often think about. VTA has had 1 major rule change and yes, it hasn't been popular in some peoples minds BUT...that was not the fault of VTA. In order to keep the focus on what the class is designed to be the organizers HAVE to react to the changes in the technology. Thats a fact of life in every technology oriented market. If that wasn't the case, we'd all still be using computers from 5 years ago. In our case, the updated technology directly impacts performance and THAT can make huge problems in spec oriented classes, which should be the largest percentage of racers. RCGT is a perfect example. It started as a way to make racing more affordable, realistic and less "gotta have the fastest, most expensive technology out there". It started great. It failed because nobody reacted to the tech explosion that created secondary issues. Costs increaed dramatically, tires weren't able to handle the higher level of performance so they wore out quickly and made driving harder for newer drivers + the cost when up because you had to replace them more often. Get the picture ?? Higher cost, more skill required, less fun !! Hmmmm....can you spell recipe for disaster !!?? NOW look at RCGT....very few original RCGT programs. Most others are some form of it and are different around the country.
You'll never be able to make every class what everybody wants !! What would happen if 21.5 were the standard for VTA, GT and TC? Holy crap, peple would drop out left and right because they don't want 21.5. How about 17.5 !? Same problem in reverse....too fast for VTA and GT. Tires wear out, harder to do as a newbie, costs go up. Sound familiar ??
Too many people want to race too many classes but they don't want to commit to 1 or 2. You are not the key to on road. The key is in developing NEW people and you MUST provide for them AND those who don't want to become so "hard core" about racing RC. It's a hobby...not a sport.
We as racers, hobby shop owners and club directors get WAY too focused on trying to satisfy the one group that we shouldn't....those who are already in the hobby at whatever level. I'm not increasing my racer numbers by changing my rules because the guy who drives TC also wants to race VTA but doesn't want to buy another motor/esc/or car. I increase my numbers by offering stable classes where the commitment is to LIMIT the number of changes expected due to technology changes. VTA has done that. TCS has done that and had a long,successful program. GT has a chance but not there yet.
No matter what, WE are to blame. Stop looking for ways to make 1 car do it all. Start realizing that we have some great classes and they have their own value but if you don't want to spend on it then don't piss on the rest who might. Those are the people who AREN'T getting involved.
03-10-2011, 08:41 AM
#30
