a lean motor loses power very fast.....on the dyno being lean even a nudge can substantially lower power output....

indeed!!!! when i switched fuel....it went from balls on perfect from bottom to top to fall on your face half way down the strait rich...so i re-tuned and gained like 45 sec per tank average (over 10 or so tanks) and still had smile inducing power that pissed every v-spec owner off!!!! and temps still never reached over 255!!!!!!

At the worlds in the main we started off at roughly 230 after warm up prior to the start and came off of the track at roughly 242 after the 1 hour final. So we were by no means running lean, if anything we ran a little bit richer than we normally would have liked simply to be on the safe side and because we were not trying to stretch run time.

Regarding the fuel comments that hustler777 mentioned you are correct a lower oil content will yield longer run times. The predominant reason behind this is that lower oil content = a higher methanol content in the fuel and methanol is a combustible material so the more of it you have, the longer that you run. Methanol also has a heat wicking effect when it vaporizes in the combustion chamber so more of it = a cooler operating temperature which means that you can run your engine leaner. Additional methanol also has the effect of providing superior anti-knock (pre-detonation) propertied comparable in essence to having a higher octane rating for the fuel which allows you to run a lower deck height or higher compression ratio with less likelyhood of detonation. This can/will improve torque quite substantially if you optimize for it correctly. So there are also additional benefits to be had from it in that area also.

Your comments about the reduction in smoke trail on the Sidewinder purple stuff though I find interesting as I found that it smokes more that I thought it would for a low oil content fuel. I think this has to do with having relatively low flash points for the lubricants that they use in it though. To me it seems like the oil burns off based on the engine internals appearing nearly dry after running in the motors that I took apart there which would confirm my thoughts on this. In any case though as you guys are probably getting from reading this there is quite a bit more involved in fuel development/testing than most people think lol! All fuels burn, it's really how in depth you go into the testing to figure out what the true benefits of one over the other are.

some of the fuels being made troday are NOT being made for engine longevity but rather performance at any cost . they are using high synthetic to castor oil ratios and some even use 100% synthetic oils which requires a drastically leaner needle setting than other fuels with some natural castor oil.


another thing , i get engines in here that run many different fuels so i get to see first hand what how much of what kind of fuel does what or doesnt do what to the internals of your micromotor . from what i have seen , i have deduced that 100% synthetic oil fuel is NOT good for your engine , i repeat NOT good for your engine !!! i know of 3 companies at least that use full synthetic oils in their fuel .


so i dont know about you but i have to purchase my engines , i am not 100% sponsored by anybody but myself!! and i would like to protect my engines i use byrons 30/9 pro driver fuel , rbmods after run oil ,kyosho air filter oil , it seems to work and work well

+1 about the fully synthetic fuel comments above. We tested that back when we were developing our fuel and I nixed it almost right away. Going the fully synthetic route is the easy way of making a fuel that produces hp but totally sacrifices protection/engine longevity. Much more difficult but much safer for engines is including a properly formulated castor oil. When I say formulated I mean castor mixed with the appropriate additives package i.e. VI improvers, EP addatives, friction modifiers, anti-oxidants, dispersants etc. etc. etc. These are only present in PPM quantities but they make a huge difference in how the oil performs. Want to truly know how much your local fuel guy knows about what he is doing, ask him about those lol. Most will probably just sit there with a dumbfounded/confused look in their eyes

ya ya we know you're a smarty pants sheesh

absolutely correct , things you cannot do when mixing backyard fuel

how many are asking theirselves "what is PPM?"

just being funnny

Parts Per Million. Don't ask me why i know that, lol.

ok...for the record...1.) I'm no where near sponsored by ANYONE accept for my own 2 beat'n and scared hands so I know all about having to pay for each and every racing item I run...it would just be to much fun to be a sponsored driver!!!! and 2.) I generally DO run Byrons (either Pro or Race...I break in with Race for atleast 1 gallon) the only draw back to that is, up here, in order for me to go down to the LHS and just grab a gallon, I'm throw'n $50 down for Pro and $45 down for Race Blend....so I talked to a friend of mine and got a gallon of Sidewinder ALOT cheaper than that...and concidering my motor was on at least its 7th if not 8th gallon it wouldn't hurt anything to give it a try see'n as how I only needed it for 2 races then shelf it and rebuild it for the winter as to have another back up for next year. I just posted my findings on here cuz it DID give me fuel mileage AND runtime....kinda goes with the name of the thread huh?




OH, AND YES I AM A SMARTA$$, JUST DON'T TAKE IT AS DISRESPECT BY ANY MEANS!!!!!!

Well, I have ran byrons in the past and also some of the other BETTER race fuels on the market.And if this Thread is about run times I have never seen a fuel get better fuel mileage than my sponsors S&W Trophy blend, period. The funny thing is a couple of the other posters in this forum talking about great run times,easy to tune,and good protection are also running oil packages coming from the S&W shop.As far as technical data i can't provide you with much but what i can tell you as fact is There is a major nascar team,NHRA top fuel team,and the biggest offshore racing team in the world is running an oil packing coming out of the S&W/SPL LUBE shop.And these are the same products in Trophy blend. Just because a particular company has the biggest name or biggest piece of the market does not mean they provide the best product. Why would a company spend 7-9k a drum for a barrel of PREMIUM oil when they can make mass market nitro fuel with oil that's 4 or $500 a barrel instead.If you think the big market fuel companies are doing whats best for you and your motor your wrong its about them and there profit margins! Theres a lot of "small" fuel manufacturers out there making good products.

Usually a small company buys their materials from the big companies they are trying to compete with. Some good methanol and nitro, Klotz bottled oil and you've got a decent fuel. Nothing wrong with it, I ran it for a year instead of my customary Byron's and it ran and protected my engines every bit as well. A small company doesn't have the resources to do the R&D or purchasing volume necessary to improve on that.

$45-50 a gallon for Byron's in Wi.? I haven't bought a gallon in a while but it was less than $30 (Race 3000) down south in Madison. WOW.

No worries, speaking from my (and i think also houstons) perspective, no one is being critical of your or anyone elses choices. Were just getting into the technical end of things like we do every now and then This to me is the most fun part of being in this industry, figuring out how everything works lol!

On a side not great to hear that your 7+ gal down on your B5! Hope that you've been pleased with it's performance and thank you for using one of our products!

no worries ron, i enjoy the technical side of everything more than you know... you've got a loyal customer after this past year with your motor!!!!! so what does it take to get picked up by werks??? HAHAHAHAHA YAAAA RIGHT!!!! KEEP UP THE AWESOME WORK!!!!

I know tis is a "run time" thread not a fuel choice thread, so I was hesitant to post. For the guys making comments on judging how lean an engine is by "how much it smokes" is not always 100% accurate. Sure it's a good way to be protective or observative, but the TYPE of oil that is used by a fuel company often determines how much smoke you will see. On some fuels, the engine can still be tuned too lean, and you will still see decent smoke. Same goes for the opposite, some brands can be rich, but you will still see barely any smoke. This isn't a "sell me thread" so I am going to just use examples, not advertising. Two totally different fuels can both have "9%" oil, but if different oils are used, the smoke characteristics will be totally different, including how much smoke and also the color of the smoke. A white smoke versus a blue tinted smoke even.

I use Sidewinder Team Stryke, and my pit guy/racing buddy uses Odonnel fuel. We both run a Reedy engine. At the same tracks on the same given day, my engine smokes more than his, every time, by I also tune my engines a little leaner, I know this because I also tune his. I tune them both by sound on the track, and the way they sound when they come into pit road after a practice run. Running Odonnel fuel, there are times I second guess the tune because I see hardly ANY smoke from his car, but I trust my ear and I know that he isn't lean although it looks lean. So the moral of the story is don't look at somebody else's car and judge how lean you think they are based on how much smoke you see.

Agree completely. In fact, for our high strung onroad motors, I like at least 6% castor. Not 6% total oil but at least 6% castor PLUS some amount of synth. Any less than that leads to early failures. This is why most of the onroad pros are adding castor to Byrons. 9% genII is only 4.5% castor.

I tune like Brandon. I tune mine, and my cousin's engines. I always tune by sound down the straight and on corner exit on his. It's hard to tell during a race on the corner exit, so I try to get the LSN dialed in during practice. I will get him started, and go turn marshal and listen to it everytime he comes near me. I always tell him how to tune mine by feel and sound.
I always check out engines temp after every run, but I don't worry about it, and I have never seen our temps over 265.