TC3 Assembly Tips, Factory Team Kit
12-30-2002, 10:04 AM
#16
Lateral Runout on Front One-way Diff Gear
The first time I assembled and installed the front one-way diff, the gear was alternately tight then loose as I rotated the input shaft. This idicates the gear is not flat on the diff's mounting flange. I removed the gear and scrapped off some burrs that developed on the screw holes of the diff flange. When I reassembled it the gear was flat and turned with little friction in the diff.
12-30-2002, 12:01 PM
#17
Tech Adept
Hey John,
The friction on the diff and the suspension will settle when the car is broken in. With some usage, the gears will mate better and the transmission gears will feel much better.
See you at the track....Brien
The friction on the diff and the suspension will settle when the car is broken in. With some usage, the gears will mate better and the transmission gears will feel much better.
See you at the track....Brien
12-30-2002, 12:13 PM
#18
Corner Weights
You will get the best performance from a touring car when the tires on both sides of the car carry the same weight. I mounted the transponder practice weight to the right of the servo. I still needed to add about 1.8 ounces of ballast. I put this much lead in the cavity to the right of the motor and the right rear tire was still light. So here is my plan. I'm going to mount a second transponder practice weight to a BRP transponder mount. This weight will be posistioned to clear the right rear tire and will be mounted ouboard of the chassis like the front weight. This mount can be bent with a heat gun or lighter. I plan to drill and countersink a screw from the bottom of the chassis to hold this arm which will be bent around the inside of the cavity on top. The point of this is to mount some weight farther to the right on the chassis. The rest of the lead will go in the cavity to the right of the motor. Corner weights came out pretty close to even. Left front= right front and left rear = right rear. If you run the battery forward you can move the lead and practice weight further forward. I'll put up a picture later. I have to buy the mount.
Brien- did you need to reshim the input shafts to take out some play after you seated the parts on the track. I was curious about that.
Brien- did you need to reshim the input shafts to take out some play after you seated the parts on the track. I was curious about that.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-30-2002 at 12:18 PM.
12-30-2002, 03:44 PM
#19
Corner Weights Continued
Here is a photo of the rear transponder mount and a 1 ounce strip of folded lead. I made the mount from a tackle box divider. Put it in the vise and used a heat gun to make a simple 90 degree bend. Servo taped to the inside of the chassis. The lead is wedged in with servo tape for added security. Rear Left side and right side wheels are loaded within .1-.2 ounces with the extra weight in this location. The fronts as well. I aggree that the transponders look funny here, but that's where the factory recommends the front one.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-30-2002 at 03:46 PM.
12-30-2002, 04:21 PM
#20
Tech Master
iTrader: (21)
TC3 and Stranahan
This is great.Got your book and it's very helpful and informative.The only "problem" I've had with it is your use of the XXX in your examples and tests.Nothing wrong with that except I run the TC3.lol.I still recommend the book to all my fellow racers,it's that good.This thread will keep me coming here every day as I have found your threads in the past some of the best I've read.Keep up the good work,it's great.Mario
12-30-2002, 06:39 PM
#21
Originally posted by John Stranahan
There are 18 total of 4-40 thread x 3/8 inch Flat head screws on the bottom of the chassis. The two steering screws are longer and came with steel screws on my kit. Personally I would use the Associated steel screws in places that I did not want aluminum. They come in packages of about 5 screws. They are about twice as strong as the 6 AL V4 titanium. Maybe someone else can post a site for good Titanium Screws. I have not purchased any.
There are 18 total of 4-40 thread x 3/8 inch Flat head screws on the bottom of the chassis. The two steering screws are longer and came with steel screws on my kit. Personally I would use the Associated steel screws in places that I did not want aluminum. They come in packages of about 5 screws. They are about twice as strong as the 6 AL V4 titanium. Maybe someone else can post a site for good Titanium Screws. I have not purchased any.
http://www.racinghardcore.com/index2.htm
12-30-2002, 06:57 PM
#22
Mario-Thanks. I'll update the book with more TC3 stuff when I run the TC3 a few months. I don't expect there will be any dramatic differences in the way the chassis is setup.
Agr+7- thanks for the web address. Did you find the problem with the link rubbing the driveshaft?
Agr+7- thanks for the web address. Did you find the problem with the link rubbing the driveshaft?
Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-30-2002 at 07:01 PM.
12-31-2002, 09:00 AM
#23
Fore Aft Weight Balance
With the car like in the previous photo, battery back, the rear weighs 5 ounces more than the front. This might be a bit too much. I moved the battery to the forward position to improve this balance. I can move the extra ballast forward a little. 2-4 oz heavier on the back seems to be good numbers to shoot for.
Ted- I you look back in here, are you guys running your battery forward or back.
Ted- I you look back in here, are you guys running your battery forward or back.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-31-2002 at 10:48 AM.
12-31-2002, 04:55 PM
#24
First Practice Session and Setup
I got to run the TC3 today at Reflex RC in Houston which has a high grip indoor asphalt track with a fresh new layout today. All I can say is the car is wickedly fast out of the corners. I started with the setup right off the Losi XXXS which I have been racing at the same track. The only change is I ran the TC3 .5 mm higher because the bottom of the chassis is more flat than the Losi. Here is the result of my tuning session.
Current Setup as of 4/05/03 I update this setup periodically.
Front- Blue Spring middle hole on stock shock tower and outer hole on bottom. #2 shock piston, 30 weight oil, with .010 inch bevel cut on top of each piston hole by hand with a drill bit to ease bump travel of the shock. Camber link long and in the upper position on the shock tower, Camber -.5 deg. Ride height 5 mm, battery forward, Chamaeleon II geared 7.20. Warlock Red Springs (medium) Trinity 4499 or 4505 brushes, 4 degree caster, No Kickup. Front One-way. Droop 3 measured to bottom of screw boss on caster block with the supplied gauge.
Rear-Blue Spring all the way out out on top and out on the bottom. #2 shock piston, 30 weight oil, with .010 inch bevel cut on top by hand with a drill bit to ease bump travel of the shock. Camber link long, outer hub position, inner lower position on shock tower. Camber -.5 degree. 2 degrees of toe per side, No antisquat. Plastic Rear dogbones and diff. Droop 6 on supplied gauge.
I increased rear toe to 3 per side for open mod all else the same.
I was very pleased with the setup and plan to race it tomorrow. Here are a couple of experiments I did. When I started the rear was just a little loose but drivable. I moved the rear upper shock mount to the inner position, this tightened the rear just enough. On the first pack the car was a little slow and slid a bit too much. After the gears seated after 6-7 laps it was very fast. I moved the inner camber links to the upper position after the first pack. This lowered the roll center a bit and gave me the extra grip that I needed. The car was dialed.
Roll stiffness
We have a high speed turn off a long straight right into a hairpin. This is a good test to see if you have enough roll stiffness in the car. If the car is to lightly sprung or the roll centers are too low you will lack steering precision on this kind of turn and hit the corner marker on occasion. The TC3 seemed to be fine with the blue springs and the camber links in the upper position.
Camber
The TC3 also seems to work fine with a lot less than 2 degrees of camber on our asphalt track. The higher negative camber setting will cause a lot of wear on the inner edges of the tires.
Front to back balance.
The rear is 2.5 ounces heavier than the front. Worked great like this. Battery is forward. I moved the rear blue weight a little forward.
Torque Steer
No torque steer is apparent. I wonder if this is from the good left to right balance. I had to make no major driving style adjustments to change from the XXXS to the TC3.
Current Setup as of 4/05/03 I update this setup periodically.
Front- Blue Spring middle hole on stock shock tower and outer hole on bottom. #2 shock piston, 30 weight oil, with .010 inch bevel cut on top of each piston hole by hand with a drill bit to ease bump travel of the shock. Camber link long and in the upper position on the shock tower, Camber -.5 deg. Ride height 5 mm, battery forward, Chamaeleon II geared 7.20. Warlock Red Springs (medium) Trinity 4499 or 4505 brushes, 4 degree caster, No Kickup. Front One-way. Droop 3 measured to bottom of screw boss on caster block with the supplied gauge.
Rear-Blue Spring all the way out out on top and out on the bottom. #2 shock piston, 30 weight oil, with .010 inch bevel cut on top by hand with a drill bit to ease bump travel of the shock. Camber link long, outer hub position, inner lower position on shock tower. Camber -.5 degree. 2 degrees of toe per side, No antisquat. Plastic Rear dogbones and diff. Droop 6 on supplied gauge.
I increased rear toe to 3 per side for open mod all else the same.
I was very pleased with the setup and plan to race it tomorrow. Here are a couple of experiments I did. When I started the rear was just a little loose but drivable. I moved the rear upper shock mount to the inner position, this tightened the rear just enough. On the first pack the car was a little slow and slid a bit too much. After the gears seated after 6-7 laps it was very fast. I moved the inner camber links to the upper position after the first pack. This lowered the roll center a bit and gave me the extra grip that I needed. The car was dialed.
Roll stiffness
We have a high speed turn off a long straight right into a hairpin. This is a good test to see if you have enough roll stiffness in the car. If the car is to lightly sprung or the roll centers are too low you will lack steering precision on this kind of turn and hit the corner marker on occasion. The TC3 seemed to be fine with the blue springs and the camber links in the upper position.
Camber
The TC3 also seems to work fine with a lot less than 2 degrees of camber on our asphalt track. The higher negative camber setting will cause a lot of wear on the inner edges of the tires.
Front to back balance.
The rear is 2.5 ounces heavier than the front. Worked great like this. Battery is forward. I moved the rear blue weight a little forward.
Torque Steer
No torque steer is apparent. I wonder if this is from the good left to right balance. I had to make no major driving style adjustments to change from the XXXS to the TC3.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 04-06-2003 at 04:51 PM.
12-31-2002, 05:10 PM
#25
BRP Polished Steel Hinge Pins for the TC3
I broke the rear inner pivot support for the A-arm and bent a pin.
We had in stock a set of polished steel pins by BRP. These fit a lot better than the original pins and don't have the damage on the ends that my pins had. $5.00. These are what I would buy. Titanium is too weak for this application.
We had in stock a set of polished steel pins by BRP. These fit a lot better than the original pins and don't have the damage on the ends that my pins had. $5.00. These are what I would buy. Titanium is too weak for this application.
Last edited by John Stranahan; 12-31-2002 at 05:16 PM.
01-01-2003, 07:45 PM
#26
Race Results
The TC3 was fast tonight. I made a couple of small changes to the setup. The rear was slightly loose off power. I reduced the rear shock oil weight to 35. I then got some corner entry push so I moved the upper rear shock mount out one hole to the second hole out from the inside. The car was strapped. Tq'd and won the 19 turn class. A couple of the big dogs showed but did not race, though. Sorex 32 Tires with Hpi medium soft inserts at 65 F. The tires had 26 runs on them at the end of the race. I will make the changes to the setup post above.
Wheel bearing spacers
Seems that when I tighten the front wheel nuts (running a oneway) the wheels don't spin like they should with the car in the air after I goose the throttle. I had the same problem with the Losi. If I loosen the nut they spin well. The cure was to add an MIP axle spacer inside between the bearings to make the Aluminum spacer just a bit thicker. Plan to do this tomorrow. I don't like to run the nuts loose, they fall off sometimes if you do.
Wheel bearing spacers
Seems that when I tighten the front wheel nuts (running a oneway) the wheels don't spin like they should with the car in the air after I goose the throttle. I had the same problem with the Losi. If I loosen the nut they spin well. The cure was to add an MIP axle spacer inside between the bearings to make the Aluminum spacer just a bit thicker. Plan to do this tomorrow. I don't like to run the nuts loose, they fall off sometimes if you do.
01-01-2003, 11:01 PM
#27
Tech Addict
Try running some trinity alloy nuts that are slightly thinner as the kit nuts don't do up enough to get into the locking portion.
01-02-2003, 08:52 AM
#29
Lose the skinny body clips.
Some other mods I have done is to drill the battery hold down bolts with a 1/16 drill for the larger Losi body clips. It is also a good idea to use these larger Losi pins on the outside of the car. This will prevent loss during the crashes. I drilled some holes just above the battery foam on the front body posts in order to use two body clips to help keep the foam down, like on the Losi. This might help preserve the plastic bumper underneath. RPM also makes a bigger plastic bumper if you need more protection for the front A-arms.
Here is another pic with the battery forward to replace the low quality first picture in this thread.
Some other mods I have done is to drill the battery hold down bolts with a 1/16 drill for the larger Losi body clips. It is also a good idea to use these larger Losi pins on the outside of the car. This will prevent loss during the crashes. I drilled some holes just above the battery foam on the front body posts in order to use two body clips to help keep the foam down, like on the Losi. This might help preserve the plastic bumper underneath. RPM also makes a bigger plastic bumper if you need more protection for the front A-arms.
Here is another pic with the battery forward to replace the low quality first picture in this thread.
01-02-2003, 11:13 AM
#30
Re: replacement screws
Originally posted by coolrcdad
Do you know who makes steel or titanium screws for the bottom and what the sizes/quanity are? Thanks.
Do you know who makes steel or titanium screws for the bottom and what the sizes/quanity are? Thanks.
http://www.racinghardcore.com/index2.htm
Or; the TC3 steel screw kit from Associated can be purchased from any number of hobby shops that carry Associated gear.
Last edited by AGR#7; 01-02-2003 at 02:04 PM.