70LikesTransponder Hack
12-27-2023 | 02:15 PM
#46
It’s great you think complaining about the technology we have available to us is ignorant. I’m pretty sure that’s not at all the objective of this entire thread. Did you read, or did you really just HAVE to share your unrelated opinion and you chose this particular thread at random to accomplish your mission?
12-27-2023 | 03:17 PM
#47
It’s great you think complaining about the technology we have available to us is ignorant. I’m pretty sure that’s not at all the objective of this entire thread. Did you read, or did you really just HAVE to share your unrelated opinion and you chose this particular thread at random to accomplish your mission?
As this is a forum for sharing opinions;
I am of the opinion that the current mYlaps, and MRT products are already reasonably priced.
Yes, postulating that someone can simply pop one open and figure it out, or make a snap assessment that it is a rip off, is "lacking knowledge or awareness in general" as to what is actually involved.
12-27-2023 | 03:39 PM
#48
Tech Addict
iTrader: (29)
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 571
Complaining about what we have is totally different than complaining about a lack of options. I totally agree that we’re in a great spot. But I also think options would be even better. To simply stop pushing forward because we’re better off than we were 3 decades ago would be silly.
12-27-2023 | 03:52 PM
#49
I find it slightly ironic that some complain about a single$100 piece of equipment, that is effectively the “ticket” to participate in racing their $300 to $900 rc car.
Technically, it’s the cost of participation in organized racing. And you only need to pay it once per car. Average out per use, and the cost becomes insignificant.
Maybe some are forgetting the overall cost of the complete integrated system of software, loop, decoder, etc. How much is that?
That cost is almost entirely absorbed by the club or track facility. Where are the complaints about that?
I think some are taking for granted a system that works near flawlessly, keeps data accurately, times precisely, and helps organize so many people at so many events.
From that perspective, I’m thankful I only have to pay $100 to have the privilege of this technology and reliability.
I Use to race at a track where an employee had to hit number keys as cars wizzed by. Then a track where you were a numbskull if you forgot to put the transponder, the size of a micro servo, back in it charging dock after your heat. When personal transponders came out, it was glorious. I think complaining about what we have now is ignorant of how far it’s come and how good we have it.
Technically, it’s the cost of participation in organized racing. And you only need to pay it once per car. Average out per use, and the cost becomes insignificant.
Maybe some are forgetting the overall cost of the complete integrated system of software, loop, decoder, etc. How much is that?
That cost is almost entirely absorbed by the club or track facility. Where are the complaints about that?
I think some are taking for granted a system that works near flawlessly, keeps data accurately, times precisely, and helps organize so many people at so many events.
From that perspective, I’m thankful I only have to pay $100 to have the privilege of this technology and reliability.
I Use to race at a track where an employee had to hit number keys as cars wizzed by. Then a track where you were a numbskull if you forgot to put the transponder, the size of a micro servo, back in it charging dock after your heat. When personal transponders came out, it was glorious. I think complaining about what we have now is ignorant of how far it’s come and how good we have it.
I run a retail store, similarly to have such a business. You need a retail point of sale system, security cameras, security guards, cleaning crews. I don’t regularly have discussions with my patrons about what the cost of the systems that help me run this shop this nor, do I expect them to know what it is.
Back to transponders, I have actually paid the price to compete and paid the price of convenience by having 6 transponders in total for myself and my son. That’s a decision I made. I don’t expect it to be convenient for someone else or everybody else be able to afford it.
I still think the individual price for the transponders is too high. Overtime, the cost of many devices come down yet these have remained at the same level simply because there isn’t competition. Lets use servos as an example, metal gear servos were the new thing then came coreless, digital, brushless, high voltage, s-bus overtime. The older models prices dropped. The new versions of mylaps transponders are not offering any new features. They supplanted the older versions and made them obsolete to keep MRT out. It remains a simple, counting system. As a lack of competition, the price remains the same.
Last edited by Raman; 12-27-2023 at 04:14 PM.
12-27-2023 | 04:31 PM
#50
The cost associated with the facility, the timing system its utilities, et cetera are not directly born by the end-user. These fixed up start costs are partially covered by the fee that is charged for participating for that day for the class and additional classes..
I run a retail store, similarly to have such a business. You need a retail point of sale system, security cameras, security guards, cleaning crews. I don’t regularly have discussions with my patrons about what the cost of the systems that help me run this shop this nor, do I expect them to know what it is.
Back to transponders, I have actually paid the price to compete and paid the price of convenience by having 6 transponders in total for myself and my son. That’s a decision I made. I don’t expect it to be convenient for someone else or everybody else be able to afford it.
I still think the individual price for the transponders is too high. Overtime, the cost of many devices come down yet these have remained at the same level simply because there isn’t competition. Lets use servos as an example, metal gear servos were the new thing then came coreless, digital, brushless, high voltage, s-bus overtime. The older models prices dropped. The new versions of mylaps transponders are not offering any new features. They supplanted the older versions and made them obsolete to keep MRT out. It remains a simple, counting system. As a lack of competition, the price remains the same.
I run a retail store, similarly to have such a business. You need a retail point of sale system, security cameras, security guards, cleaning crews. I don’t regularly have discussions with my patrons about what the cost of the systems that help me run this shop this nor, do I expect them to know what it is.
Back to transponders, I have actually paid the price to compete and paid the price of convenience by having 6 transponders in total for myself and my son. That’s a decision I made. I don’t expect it to be convenient for someone else or everybody else be able to afford it.
I still think the individual price for the transponders is too high. Overtime, the cost of many devices come down yet these have remained at the same level simply because there isn’t competition. Lets use servos as an example, metal gear servos were the new thing then came coreless, digital, brushless, high voltage, s-bus overtime. The older models prices dropped. The new versions of mylaps transponders are not offering any new features. They supplanted the older versions and made them obsolete to keep MRT out. It remains a simple, counting system. As a lack of competition, the price remains the same.
Servos directly affect performance, transponders do not. There's an inventive for competition when the performance matters.
12-27-2023 | 06:49 PM
#51
The objective of this thread, as I have understood from the start, is to offer a reasonably priced alternative to mYlaps transponders.
As this is a forum for sharing opinions;
I am of the opinion that the current mYlaps, and MRT products are already reasonably priced.
Yes, postulating that someone can simply pop one open and figure it out, or make a snap assessment that it is a rip off, is "lacking knowledge or awareness in general" as to what is actually involved.
As this is a forum for sharing opinions;
I am of the opinion that the current mYlaps, and MRT products are already reasonably priced.
Yes, postulating that someone can simply pop one open and figure it out, or make a snap assessment that it is a rip off, is "lacking knowledge or awareness in general" as to what is actually involved.
12-27-2023 | 07:34 PM
#53
That approach requires everyone who already has a MyLaps transponder to switch. I-Laps also requires the IR loop to sit over the track which makes it harder to do permanent outdoor installations. That wouldn't fly with my local clubs, but it does lower the cost for clubs that can accommodate those disadvantages.
12-28-2023 | 11:10 AM
#54
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 753
gigaplex But what some people obviously dream about is a company that will sell a system of roughly the same quality, where transponders only cost around $20-$25 instead of around a hundred and probably a decoder for a couple hundred instead of several thousand dollars. And I believe such a system would easily sell, even when not directly compatible with RC4, as the cost would be very little for new tracks and/or racers, and also no hindrance for existing racers - what is $25 more to spend in this money-pit of a hobby? Even established tracks might be interested at that price (if the system managed to become popular) and it might be possible to run in parallel with the Mylaps decoder on the same time keeping software (so transponders and decoders stay independent from each other, and only come together on the computer). The question is, would such low prices really work for a company to develop, produce and long-time support such products? Even in large numbers if it proves successful? I kinda doubt it. But it is what Mylaps has successfully done for a very long time, with their prices.
12-28-2023 | 11:17 AM
#55
The transponders themselves are relatively simple. But the entire ecosystem is more complex. MyLaps still needs to support the decoders. They're a one time low volume purchase with no ongoing subscription costs. If MyLaps can't make money off the transponders then the whole system goes bankrupt.
Servos directly affect performance, transponders do not. There's an inventive for competition when the performance matters.
Servos directly affect performance, transponders do not. There's an inventive for competition when the performance matters.
My lap has been around for a very long time. If they are struggling financially, then it would serve their interest to diversify into other sectors and offer other products. MyLaps exists in 1:1 racing as well as RC. There are plenty of individuals entering these competitions every year and purchasing their equipment.
I personally think if they drop the price of their transponders from $100 to $50 more people would buy their transponders. I would probably have a dozen instead of six. Others who transfer the transponder between their cars would have multiples as well.
12-28-2023 | 11:42 AM
#56
trust me, no company is going to give you deal on a product you can make money with and that company only gets that one time payment. remember, most electronics you're paying for the costs to develop the software not necessarily hardware itself. Just like any kit, the pricing is meant to cover manufacturing but also R&D work that was involved. Most of these products take yrs of development and investment before you can think of making any monies. Regardless, in this hobby you get what you pay for. You can buy knocks off that a particular manufacture has no idea what they're manufacture.
12-28-2023 | 11:52 AM
#57
Tech Lord
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 14,051
From: Holland
We use the Orange Lap Rc transponders at our track and they’re only $25 a pop. Which seems realistic given what they are and how many you could get made on a panel. Mylaps just pots the same thing in a 2cent plastic case and marks it up $100. Given how much we want more people to enter the hobby, shouldn’t the RC community be pushing for the Orange Lap version instead?
Also in 4 pages of talk in this topic I did never see someone mentioning the whole system behind it. You can create a free account at Speedhyves where every lap driven on a track with an online decoder is registered. The servers, maintenance and software development has also to be payed. But in the US tracks work with LiveRC where I believe you need to pay for a subscription?
Mylaps and Bervoets (yep, the dutch guy who created Serpent with Ron Ton, the Ber in Berton...) deserve their success. Their lapcounting system was breakthrough. I have 4 AMB including one from the very first generation, and once you figure out how to change the leads especially on the transponder side, they last forever
I will admit I also have 2 mrt clones - the reason I bought them is because of absence of retro compatibility of the originals early transponders with the new loops. The newer loops don't see the old transponders... And that p!ssed me off. If I can't trust the original brand, then why would I bother... And the clubs are a set or making it a point to not upgrade the firmware....
I'm grateful to AMB/mylaps, still I think they started acting a bit too greedy at some point.
In a non-niche RC world, anti-trust authorities would step in btw.
I will admit I also have 2 mrt clones - the reason I bought them is because of absence of retro compatibility of the originals early transponders with the new loops. The newer loops don't see the old transponders... And that p!ssed me off. If I can't trust the original brand, then why would I bother... And the clubs are a set or making it a point to not upgrade the firmware....
I'm grateful to AMB/mylaps, still I think they started acting a bit too greedy at some point.
In a non-niche RC world, anti-trust authorities would step in btw.
Regarding the update I agree that it could be friendlier for their customers but there is an exchange program to get a new transponder for a lower price. You can even swap an MRT transponder for an RC4 Mylaps. And can you blame them? They just want to secure their own design and market where companies like MRT are lifting on. Also MRT can not provide you an unique number that is your own with which you can create a Speedhyve account, you can only let them copy an original AMB/Mylaps transponder or else you get 20 selectable numbers that will give issues on larger races with more MRT users. This is one of the reasons some competitions only allow original Mylaps transponders.
12-28-2023 | 12:36 PM
#58
Also in 4 pages of talk in this topic I did never see someone mentioning the whole system behind it. You can create a free account at Speedhyves where every lap driven on a track with an online decoder is registered. The servers, maintenance and software development has also to be payed. But in the US tracks work with LiveRC where I believe you need to pay for a subscription?
The transponders themselves are relatively simple. But the entire ecosystem is more complex. MyLaps still needs to support the decoders. They're a one time low volume purchase with no ongoing subscription costs. If MyLaps can't make money off the transponders then the whole system goes bankrupt.
12-28-2023 | 12:51 PM
#59
Tech Adept
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 122
From: Canada BC
I think the main and possibly the only reason why they have a monopoly and also why they are the go to for RC is because they have an already successful sustainable business supply timing equipment across all kinds of motorsport. I don't believe there is a big enough market within all motorsport including rc (which is a laughably small part) to run a second company that makes enough money and is not a passion project.
If Mercedes or Ferrari or Honda etc were to create an RC car it would not be the cheapest thing out there.
Lets be thankful that we have a reliable and almost fully adopted technology that allows us to travel all over the world to world class tracks or basement tracks or back of the barn tracks and compete with full timing and not a hand counter and a piece of paper with equipment we bring with us. Imagine if every track had a different system, What a nightmare that would be....
If Mercedes or Ferrari or Honda etc were to create an RC car it would not be the cheapest thing out there.
Lets be thankful that we have a reliable and almost fully adopted technology that allows us to travel all over the world to world class tracks or basement tracks or back of the barn tracks and compete with full timing and not a hand counter and a piece of paper with equipment we bring with us. Imagine if every track had a different system, What a nightmare that would be....
12-28-2023 | 01:01 PM
#60
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (1)
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 753
I think the main and possibly the only reason why they have a monopoly and also why they are the go to for RC is because they have an already successful sustainable business supply timing equipment across all kinds of motorsport. I don't believe there is a big enough market within all motorsport including rc (which is a laughably small part) to run a second company that makes enough money and is not a passion project.
If Mercedes or Ferrari or Honda etc were to create an RC car it would not be the cheapest thing out there.
Lets be thankful that we have a reliable and almost fully adopted technology that allows us to travel all over the world to world class tracks or basement tracks or back of the barn tracks and compete with full timing and not a hand counter and a piece of paper with equipment we bring with us. Imagine if every track had a different system, What a nightmare that would be....
If Mercedes or Ferrari or Honda etc were to create an RC car it would not be the cheapest thing out there.
Lets be thankful that we have a reliable and almost fully adopted technology that allows us to travel all over the world to world class tracks or basement tracks or back of the barn tracks and compete with full timing and not a hand counter and a piece of paper with equipment we bring with us. Imagine if every track had a different system, What a nightmare that would be....