Xray T4'17
#647
#648
I do this as well, haven't had any issues. I use black foam tape as opposed to the clear style, as i find it gives more, and as such would get in the way of chassis flex as much as something stiffer.
#651
Too little front grip. Your car is pushing.
As a first measure I would try to check what the rear end is doing, because if your car is squatting, that unloads the front. This is so you don't give away any of the rear grip. To cure this you might have to add some antisquat before considering the shock/spring combo in the back.
If that doesn't work, it means you have a large imbalance in weight transfer front to rear. You might have equal (static) corner weights but that is obviously not helping you (if it is the case).
That done and squat brought under control, if the problem persists I would look at front droop, and then ackerman, you might need to readjust to suit your track.
I would also make sure I have front camber where I want it and check the front can make use of the tyres when rolling.
There are other measures as well, but those will take away some of the rear grip (stiffening the rear suspension, moving the front arms backwards, etc). You don't want that.
As a first measure I would try to check what the rear end is doing, because if your car is squatting, that unloads the front. This is so you don't give away any of the rear grip. To cure this you might have to add some antisquat before considering the shock/spring combo in the back.
If that doesn't work, it means you have a large imbalance in weight transfer front to rear. You might have equal (static) corner weights but that is obviously not helping you (if it is the case).
That done and squat brought under control, if the problem persists I would look at front droop, and then ackerman, you might need to readjust to suit your track.
I would also make sure I have front camber where I want it and check the front can make use of the tyres when rolling.
There are other measures as well, but those will take away some of the rear grip (stiffening the rear suspension, moving the front arms backwards, etc). You don't want that.
#652
Thanks much! Was running only 1 degree front camber...may start there as it would be easy to test. Furthermore, it was a new layout for us and the course was a tad patchy w grip. However, the mod drivers seemed to be hooked up just fine.
p.s. Just looked at front shocks and they are airy...had just rebuilt them and not tightened caps all the way apparently. Perhaps was a bit squishy and inconsistent on the front end.
p.s. Just looked at front shocks and they are airy...had just rebuilt them and not tightened caps all the way apparently. Perhaps was a bit squishy and inconsistent on the front end.
#653
Ane easier way to build shocks consistently air free is to copy the off-road method and fill them through the bottom.
Well, not exactly fill them, but try to evacuate the last air bubbles that way.
This is because when you put the diaphragm on and then screw the top cap on the diaphragm can A) trap air underneath - I set it on a large positive meniscus of oil above the shock body, starting at one point on the edge and "rolling" it in position ( I hold the diaphragm with two fingers at opposite points on the edge, applying some pressure to squeeze it into a downward curved shape) towards the opposite point, thus pushing the oil gently out of the way as the diaphragm makes contact with the oil and the edge of the shock body, but it still traps air under it sometimes and it's very messy and a lot of oil is wasted; B) it can move and suck some air when you put the cap on - this is because most caps are a very close fit or even smaller than the diaphragm circumference - here I first put the shock top plastic on top of the diaphragm, and press it gently to secure the diaphragm in place, then come with the top collar over the top, remove my finger just to position the collar concentric but still holding it with two fingers, and push it down only AFTER I have my finger back on the plastic top pressing down firmly. I screw the cap very gently counterclockwise until I find the thread end and then clockwise making sure I keep it square so I don't cross thread - this would move the diaphragm because the collar cocks on the body. Keep your finger pressing down on the plastic top firmly until the collar is screwed on completely. This will push the piston out all the way, because excess oil can't go anywhere (some will still leak past the collar until it's tight). Now crack open the bottom collar to allow oil to come out, push the piston in to desired rebound and do up the collar.
Done.
It's a bit finnicky but it works 9 out of 10 times.
If there's still some air in, I turn the shock upside down, undo the bottom cap, take it off, take the o-rings(s) out and push the piston in and out gently, allowing the air to collect at the top, and then fill the o-ring seat volume with oil and pump the shock gently a few more times, until I see no more bubbles coming up. Keep topping up as needed, and when happy, top up again, put the o-rings in without draining the oil out first, just push the rings home, nevermind the oil mess leaking out, put the bottom collar back on, set rebound and then tighten the collar and you should have an air free shock.
I hate doing shocks, but they last me a long time, and I don't need to change oil for setup purposes now that I have collected quite a few sets of shocks over my time in the hobby and can afford to have a few oil weights/piston combos ready to go. Kinda annoying when your manufacturer(s) change the shocks and springs and they no longer fit older gear.
I wouldn't look at camber first, read again my previous post. Camber is a compromising setting - you will not have the same roll in all corners, or in the same corner on each lap, nor will it improve your grip in a straight line, hence you are giving away grip somewhere (or possibly everywhere).
Look at rear squat, front droop in this order.
Well, not exactly fill them, but try to evacuate the last air bubbles that way.
This is because when you put the diaphragm on and then screw the top cap on the diaphragm can A) trap air underneath - I set it on a large positive meniscus of oil above the shock body, starting at one point on the edge and "rolling" it in position ( I hold the diaphragm with two fingers at opposite points on the edge, applying some pressure to squeeze it into a downward curved shape) towards the opposite point, thus pushing the oil gently out of the way as the diaphragm makes contact with the oil and the edge of the shock body, but it still traps air under it sometimes and it's very messy and a lot of oil is wasted; B) it can move and suck some air when you put the cap on - this is because most caps are a very close fit or even smaller than the diaphragm circumference - here I first put the shock top plastic on top of the diaphragm, and press it gently to secure the diaphragm in place, then come with the top collar over the top, remove my finger just to position the collar concentric but still holding it with two fingers, and push it down only AFTER I have my finger back on the plastic top pressing down firmly. I screw the cap very gently counterclockwise until I find the thread end and then clockwise making sure I keep it square so I don't cross thread - this would move the diaphragm because the collar cocks on the body. Keep your finger pressing down on the plastic top firmly until the collar is screwed on completely. This will push the piston out all the way, because excess oil can't go anywhere (some will still leak past the collar until it's tight). Now crack open the bottom collar to allow oil to come out, push the piston in to desired rebound and do up the collar.
Done.
It's a bit finnicky but it works 9 out of 10 times.
If there's still some air in, I turn the shock upside down, undo the bottom cap, take it off, take the o-rings(s) out and push the piston in and out gently, allowing the air to collect at the top, and then fill the o-ring seat volume with oil and pump the shock gently a few more times, until I see no more bubbles coming up. Keep topping up as needed, and when happy, top up again, put the o-rings in without draining the oil out first, just push the rings home, nevermind the oil mess leaking out, put the bottom collar back on, set rebound and then tighten the collar and you should have an air free shock.
I hate doing shocks, but they last me a long time, and I don't need to change oil for setup purposes now that I have collected quite a few sets of shocks over my time in the hobby and can afford to have a few oil weights/piston combos ready to go. Kinda annoying when your manufacturer(s) change the shocks and springs and they no longer fit older gear.
I wouldn't look at camber first, read again my previous post. Camber is a compromising setting - you will not have the same roll in all corners, or in the same corner on each lap, nor will it improve your grip in a straight line, hence you are giving away grip somewhere (or possibly everywhere).
Look at rear squat, front droop in this order.
Last edited by niznai; 12-21-2016 at 08:46 AM.
#654
Too little front grip. Your car is pushing.
As a first measure I would try to check what the rear end is doing, because if your car is squatting, that unloads the front. This is so you don't give away any of the rear grip. To cure this you might have to add some antisquat before considering the shock/spring combo in the back.
If that doesn't work, it means you have a large imbalance in weight transfer front to rear. You might have equal (static) corner weights but that is obviously not helping you (if it is the case).
That done and squat brought under control, if the problem persists I would look at front droop, and then ackerman, you might need to readjust to suit your track.
I would also make sure I have front camber where I want it and check the front can make use of the tyres when rolling.
There are other measures as well, but those will take away some of the rear grip (stiffening the rear suspension, moving the front arms backwards, etc). You don't want that.
As a first measure I would try to check what the rear end is doing, because if your car is squatting, that unloads the front. This is so you don't give away any of the rear grip. To cure this you might have to add some antisquat before considering the shock/spring combo in the back.
If that doesn't work, it means you have a large imbalance in weight transfer front to rear. You might have equal (static) corner weights but that is obviously not helping you (if it is the case).
That done and squat brought under control, if the problem persists I would look at front droop, and then ackerman, you might need to readjust to suit your track.
I would also make sure I have front camber where I want it and check the front can make use of the tyres when rolling.
There are other measures as well, but those will take away some of the rear grip (stiffening the rear suspension, moving the front arms backwards, etc). You don't want that.
.
#657
I'd say, if you are Bruno run Bruno's set-up. But you're not, so, I suggest the kit set-up and adjust for your driving and the track conditions. The kit settings aren't random, they are based on the cars hundreds of laps for the average driver. Don't fall into the "so and so's set-up craze, you'll never get the car to your liking.
#658
Like I said, I would try all the options that don't take away traction at either end of the car. You don't know if this is going to solve the problem or not, I agree, but that doesn't mean one should just skip this step on the basis that it doesn't work for someone else.
What is "enough traction" anyway?
#659
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,368
From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
I'd say, if you are Bruno run Bruno's set-up. But you're not, so, I suggest the kit set-up and adjust for your driving and the track conditions. The kit settings aren't random, they are based on the cars hundreds of laps for the average driver. Don't fall into the "so and so's set-up craze, you'll never get the car to your liking.
#660
Ane easier way to build shocks consistently air free is to copy the off-road method and fill them through the bottom.
Well, not exactly fill them, but try to evacuate the last air bubbles that way.
This is because when you put the diaphragm on and then screw the top cap on the diaphragm can A) trap air underneath - I set it on a large positive meniscus of oil above the shock body, starting at one point on the edge and "rolling" it in position ( I hold the diaphragm with two fingers at opposite points on the edge, applying some pressure to squeeze it into a downward curved shape) towards the opposite point, thus pushing the oil gently out of the way as the diaphragm makes contact with the oil and the edge of the shock body, but it still traps air under it sometimes and it's very messy and a lot of oil is wasted; B) it can move and suck some air when you put the cap on - this is because most caps are a very close fit or even smaller than the diaphragm circumference - here I first put the shock top plastic on top of the diaphragm, and press it gently to secure the diaphragm in place, then come with the top collar over the top, remove my finger just to position the collar concentric but still holding it with two fingers, and push it down only AFTER I have my finger back on the plastic top pressing down firmly. I screw the cap very gently counterclockwise until I find the thread end and then clockwise making sure I keep it square so I don't cross thread - this would move the diaphragm because the collar cocks on the body. Keep your finger pressing down on the plastic top firmly until the collar is screwed on completely. This will push the piston out all the way, because excess oil can't go anywhere (some will still leak past the collar until it's tight). Now crack open the bottom collar to allow oil to come out, push the piston in to desired rebound and do up the collar.
Done.
It's a bit finnicky but it works 9 out of 10 times.
If there's still some air in, I turn the shock upside down, undo the bottom cap, take it off, take the o-rings(s) out and push the piston in and out gently, allowing the air to collect at the top, and then fill the o-ring seat volume with oil and pump the shock gently a few more times, until I see no more bubbles coming up. Keep topping up as needed, and when happy, top up again, put the o-rings in without draining the oil out first, just push the rings home, nevermind the oil mess leaking out, put the bottom collar back on, set rebound and then tighten the collar and you should have an air free shock.
I hate doing shocks, but they last me a long time, and I don't need to change oil for setup purposes now that I have collected quite a few sets of shocks over my time in the hobby and can afford to have a few oil weights/piston combos ready to go. Kinda annoying when your manufacturer(s) change the shocks and springs and they no longer fit older gear.
I wouldn't look at camber first, read again my previous post. Camber is a compromising setting - you will not have the same roll in all corners, or in the same corner on each lap, nor will it improve your grip in a straight line, hence you are giving away grip somewhere (or possibly everywhere).
Look at rear squat, front droop in this order.
Well, not exactly fill them, but try to evacuate the last air bubbles that way.
This is because when you put the diaphragm on and then screw the top cap on the diaphragm can A) trap air underneath - I set it on a large positive meniscus of oil above the shock body, starting at one point on the edge and "rolling" it in position ( I hold the diaphragm with two fingers at opposite points on the edge, applying some pressure to squeeze it into a downward curved shape) towards the opposite point, thus pushing the oil gently out of the way as the diaphragm makes contact with the oil and the edge of the shock body, but it still traps air under it sometimes and it's very messy and a lot of oil is wasted; B) it can move and suck some air when you put the cap on - this is because most caps are a very close fit or even smaller than the diaphragm circumference - here I first put the shock top plastic on top of the diaphragm, and press it gently to secure the diaphragm in place, then come with the top collar over the top, remove my finger just to position the collar concentric but still holding it with two fingers, and push it down only AFTER I have my finger back on the plastic top pressing down firmly. I screw the cap very gently counterclockwise until I find the thread end and then clockwise making sure I keep it square so I don't cross thread - this would move the diaphragm because the collar cocks on the body. Keep your finger pressing down on the plastic top firmly until the collar is screwed on completely. This will push the piston out all the way, because excess oil can't go anywhere (some will still leak past the collar until it's tight). Now crack open the bottom collar to allow oil to come out, push the piston in to desired rebound and do up the collar.
Done.
It's a bit finnicky but it works 9 out of 10 times.
If there's still some air in, I turn the shock upside down, undo the bottom cap, take it off, take the o-rings(s) out and push the piston in and out gently, allowing the air to collect at the top, and then fill the o-ring seat volume with oil and pump the shock gently a few more times, until I see no more bubbles coming up. Keep topping up as needed, and when happy, top up again, put the o-rings in without draining the oil out first, just push the rings home, nevermind the oil mess leaking out, put the bottom collar back on, set rebound and then tighten the collar and you should have an air free shock.
I hate doing shocks, but they last me a long time, and I don't need to change oil for setup purposes now that I have collected quite a few sets of shocks over my time in the hobby and can afford to have a few oil weights/piston combos ready to go. Kinda annoying when your manufacturer(s) change the shocks and springs and they no longer fit older gear.
I wouldn't look at camber first, read again my previous post. Camber is a compromising setting - you will not have the same roll in all corners, or in the same corner on each lap, nor will it improve your grip in a straight line, hence you are giving away grip somewhere (or possibly everywhere).
Look at rear squat, front droop in this order.





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