When the ball studs are raised or lowered on shock tower or hub. Is there any effect on how the suspension moves up or down?

sometimes if you lengthen the rod to much with lots of up travel sometimes it will bind. but other than that you are most;y effecting the weight transfer and tire contact patch when adjusting the ball ends!

Thanks for replying to that. I have a 1/10 scale buggy im learning to tune on. i have spent some time reading this thread. I have found it informative, but trying to apply it and understand the results is taking time. This subject kinda came up with a friend of mine when i mentioned moving a ballstud. He was very postive that if we moved ball stud up one hole on tower that it would stiffen the suspension in its up and down travel.

Ok I am not an expert on this myself, but when you move the ball stud up or down what it does is adjust your roll center. Up on the car and your roll center moves down, Down on the car and your roll center moves up. The ball stud on the hub will work in the opposite as the car. Up and the roll center moves up and down and the roll center moves down. What you are really adjusting is the angle of the upper link as it compares to the a arm. Adjusting the angle of the link on the car side up does the same as adjusting the link on the wheel side down.

What I have done is drastically change it (one adjustment at a time) that way you can really feel what the adjustment has done. Sometimes if you only adjust by a small amount you wont be able to feel the difference.

Hope this helps

Tim

So on smooth, high traction tracks, adding washers under the rear ballstuds on the tower will decrease rolling in the corners? Same with front as well, just less of an effect was my understanding.

I thought the whole camber link thing was a joke but decided to try it. It's amazing how much 2 degrees does to the car. It's a whole new car.

Brandon, when you say "rolling" do you mean the chassis as in "body roll" or rolling as in traction rolling?

Tim

What exactly is body roll?

Body roll would be when you turn one way and your car leans in the opposite direction. Just think about how a real car feels when you turn left, it wants to go straight and because you are turning left and it wants to go straight it will want to lean to the right. The stiffer suspension that the car has the less it will actually lean or roll in the opposing direction of the turn.

Tim

I just want to under stand how moving a ball stud up or down a hole or washer makes your suspension stiffer.

It doesn't make it stiffer it creates different leverage to the chassis that either makes it easier to body roll or harder to body roll. If you really want to understand search this thread for fredswain and read everything that he has posted about it. You can also download a free 1 week trial of rc crew chief and see how adjusting certain things affects the chassis

Tim

Sorry guys. Thanks for info. I have read this thread many times over. My friend and I got into a very heated debate over this. He trying to tell me moving a ball stud up or down will make it stiffer. I keep using this as a statement which just fires him up.
"If one was to remove shocks, not for tuning purposes. Just for this demo. You can move your ball studs any of the holes in tower and it will not effect how fast how the arms flop over flip up fall down or what ever. They have no effect on up or down travel. They are for horizontal leverage. Which affects your tires leaning with your chassis." What is worng with that statement? No feelings hurt here. Just want to understand.

Yes that is what I was trying to say, it does not make it stiffer it creates leverage. But this may feel like stiffer or softer and that I why people use those terms but you are right about the leverage. It was hard for me to wrap my head around it at first but then I went to a carpet track to race on and at this track we have too much traction so I am trying to get rid of being hooked up. So by adjusting camber links and you go from traction rolling to not traction rolling you can start seeing things happen.

Tim

see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWdRQaz_Xq8 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44AlYI6lSX4

I have seen that video before and it is cool how you can see the effects of how changing your links affects roll center, which in turn affects how the car leans. What I don't understand is this. Like I said earlier I have been racing on carpet and we have lots of traction, almost too much. I am running a sc truck which would traction roll all the time so the first thing I did was lower my rear links which should raise the roll center which should make my truck lean less therefore reducing traction rolling. But it did the opposite, the truck felt more unstable. I started off with 1 mm of height on the inner (shock tower) ball stud and took the 1 mm out lowering the ball stud and it traction rolled more. It also seemed to have more body roll when turning. So I raised the ball stud to 2.5 mm and that made a huge difference in the right direction. I could throw it into corners almost like I was on dirt but still not that loose. So what confuses me is, this is opposite of what razathon showed in his video. When I went higher my chassis got stiffer in the corner, he shows that the higher you go the more lean.

So can anyone help me to understand this?

Thanks

Tim

This is my story. Local track closed. Go hour east. That track is a low bite track as I hear people say. I was going up on race days doing ok. Dont know how to tune. Three four races in notice heavy tire wear on inside of both rear tire. Reading this thread thinking move link for more camber gain. Couple tries and tire wear starts moving across tire. I now have more even tire wear and better lap times. I do have to say there was also some shock work but that tire wear thing was important for me to see. Then go to a different track hour north. High bite as i hear people say. Guys are smoking fast cars holding turns like I never seen before. This is gonna be great. Not so much. My truck was terrible. Remember I dont know how to tune. My truck was terrible. I didn't know what to do. I had the tire. Couple more laps. Try couple little things. I just can't turn in drive out have enough together to clear next jump. I didn't know a car could handle so bad. So pack that up. Cry like baby all way home. Later that night hating my choosing hobby, I see this bad tire wear on out side of both rear tires. Well now I know it all(no not really just then I thought I was). Put a plan to together along with reading this thread to get less camber gain. More tire wear back across tire. I went back with big link adjustments minor shock work just moved them around, same oil same spring. Truck was better. Still no a main finish but can drive it. Tire wear has been more even across tire. I still struggle with the north track. Jumps are big speeds are fast. Lot of people in each class.