King-G

thanks for your posting of ideas on this matter Kevin...Seems we have found the same conclusion.

I feel however that castor is a good thing (to an extent)..as it gives you free camber in the turns as you can run minimal static camber to allow better tractability in a straight line..

I agree with your point on having too much camber change is not desirable..Currently I feel that my setup is working well with both 8.5 and 6 degrees of castor..If i feel the need to run less I will take your advice on removing some material from the bulkhead and using an extra castor spacer to give me more adjustment.

for me maximum camber in the turns as 2.25 degrees is working well, as I have great steering throughout the turn from entry to exit on rubber tires, Im getting good wear patterns wit this setup.
I'm not sure I want to change my roll centre to get less camber change, but castor would be the beter option. (are you running rubber or foam)?

I have not had a chance to drive the mission on foams yet ( as we race rubber tires in our state..but would be keen to hear your findings on these issues in relation to foam tires.

thanks for the informative posts...keep it coming guys!

RBLove

iTrader: (90)

Kevin K, The TM wheel is different than the TRC. It is also MUCH stronger. I have not been able to try Jaco's yet as they have been unavailable. Between the TRC and the TM. I like the TM better. The foam is the same, but the TM wheel is much stronger and I believe gives a little different feel. It's a good wheel that we will probably see a lot of this fall......

BTW. The wheel disk does not fit the current wheel, BUT they have a new wheel coming out that is white and it has an indentation that allows the wheel nut to go on farther. With the new wheel they "MIGHT" work!

rayhuang

iTrader: (5)

A little to add to King G and Kevin's very true comments. I hope this helps more than confuses, but a car with less caster turns in better for reasons that happen before the static camber and camber gain take affect. One reason is that a car with little caster , when turning the wheels off center tends to keep more of the contact patch of the tire on the road. When you add in caster (kingpin leaned back more) the wheels tend to both turn and lean back and lean in (Camber gain) at the same time and this lessons the contact patch of the tire, thus leading to less initial steering. Then, when the car has started to intiate the arc into the turn and weight has been trannsferred, the tire has gained camber and is now planting the the whole contact patch of the tire to the road AND at an angle that counteracts the roll of the chassis. This is why a car with "more" caster" feels more stuck to the road at the apex, but feels numb at turn in. man-I hope I got that right!!!


I have heard the same things about the TM foams. Strong, stiff rim, but not brittle like the TRC's and not as flexible as the Jaco's. I bet they will feel different. Maybe like a you have just a little bit stiffer spring on the car. It's robably very subtle, but I can certainley feel a big difference between Jaco and TRC Plaids!!!

Oasis2001

iTrader: (6)

KingG-It wont be long before we ahve to use foams at the AutoSalon!

rayhuang

iTrader: (5)

Now on the plus side of more caster is that wonderful planted feeling car has, the bad side is if you run a lot of static camber and get all that camber gain, as Kevin has ponted out-you might have a car that is very slow at the apex or overheats the inside of the tire or prematurely wears it out. Remember also that a car with lots of caster also jacks the weight around in the back as well. So you might be draggin the inside rear tire around the corner as it scrubs around. Man-so many things to consider!!! Another negative of lots of caster is when it leads to a push at turn in. Remember if you push at turn in-you carry it all the way through the corner. Sometimes its better to take away a little caster in trade for the turn in!!! I like Caster and I keep adding it till it affects turn in, or if people say my car looks really planted, but slow!!!!

King-G

I agree with these ideas totally...

the schumacher does tend to run allot more castor than other sedans, it has been engineered with different philosophies to other manufacturers.

alot of caster does jack the weight around alot, as can be witnessed with the car on the alignment station..I dont like excessive amounts, and I feel that you have to consider static camber when adjusting castor...

the schuey generates alot of steering, yet still has the planted feel you refer to,..My car is feeling great at the moment on our local track, using the setup posted a few days ago, my team mate and I dominated the race meet, taking home every round, and 1,2 in each final...

everything clicked on my setup, and the whole car is working together.

Kevin K

iTrader: (32)

Rob.....thanks for the info on the tires it looks likes thats going to be another choice and hopefully these plaids will stay on the rims not like um......TRC .

King-G and Ray thanks for the input on this topic. Its great that we can all share what we find and not get into a so called pissing match about whats what and how it works. I know the subject of castor is a very tricky one because it effects soooo many other things on the car, but its good that we all can express what we notice and feel on the track with the changes that we have made.

Keep it up boys

I still want to know what the heck this one is for----------->

RBLove

iTrader: (90)

KevinK, No prob brutha. I don't think we will have a problem with the glue job on these foams. TM does NOT use super glue like TRC and Jaco. His seams and glue jobs are perfect....

rayhuang

iTrader: (5)

I see a Schumacher finished third at the NORCCA Nats behind Hara and Kinwald on June 9th. Who is that driver? How did other Missions do there??

RBLove

iTrader: (90)

Will be testing kick up without the roll center mod this weekend on the rug. Also trying extremely small hole pistons with lighter oil (50 weight). I'll post results Monday!

Take care and good luck to you all that are racing this weekend! Lay it down Schuie style!!!!!!!!!!

STLNLST

iTrader: (32)

That would be Jeff Wittman.

Rick Vessell

iTrader: (10)

Fleetwooooooood,

Hey man, send me your setup so I can get dialed before I show up and not look like a clown. I've got the car set now but I would like an option or two to try out. I run HPI shocks on my car, I had 'em and they're easy to build, can't beat already paid for parts! I converted HPI's spring chart to pounds too so I can try different spring rates when I see them posted.

TM tires sound tasty, I'll have to pick some up. What kind of gearing do you guys run for mod and stock.

Rick Vessell

iTrader: (10)

Kevin K,

This, is the deathstar. You use it when you post anything about Trinity or Losi since they're the "Dark Side" LOL j/k

Kevin K

iTrader: (32)

Thanks Jonny I still dont see what the need of that one is but what ever,.

RBLove

iTrader: (90)

Socko, Our crowds have been dead, but we are still running (practicing). Below is the set up I like best thus far.

FRONT:
#2 Associated pistons
80 weight oil
TC3 white springs (40 lb)
thick sway bar
shocks all the way in on tower and inside on arm
upper arms in the upper holes on bulk head
hub carrier ballstud to the inside (short)
8.5 castor
2mm droop on TC3 gauge
-1 1/2 camber
ROLL CENTER MOD!!!!!!!!!!
plaid tires and paragon of course
4 mm ride height

REAR:
#2 Associated pistons
80 weight oil
TC3 yellow springs (35 lb)
shocks all the way in on tower and inside on arm
upper arms in the upper holes on bulk head
hub carrier ballstud to the inside (short)
2mm droop on TC3 gauge
-1 1/2 camber
NO ANTISQUAT
purple tires and again paragon
4mm ride height

STOCK UPPER DECK
20 tooth pulley
95 spur at 10 teeth over for mod. Stock roll out varies to motor, but 1.06 to 1.10 is good.

I believe this everything. I will post more as I do more testing. Thus far this has been the best to me. I've also ran a 40 lb spring in the rear as well.