WARDO

There is NO such thing as budget racing!!! you can not have a spec motor, you cannot limit racing to 1 motor company, that will allow them to raise the cost to what they want. Thats why motor cost what they do now. Show me a sealed spec motor , and I'll show you how to make it faster.

speedxl

Guess you missed the part where we probobly couldnt use the service center part. But wecould use one type motor.
Read the whole post again before comming back at me!

Wardo bet you cant tamper a motor and get away with it, with a properly trained tech person. If the motor has safety wired everything and a seal that cannot be tampered with I can put all my rc stuff on the line you cannot alter the insides of the motor.
Plus saying you motor was hit by another car then you'll need to tear the engine down get inspected and recertified by and approved person for the day. But you cant run it at another event! The reason I say this is because saftey wire doesnt brake easy, and if anything is altered bye bye!

TigeRyan

iTrader: (7)

I agree, why couldn't ROAR come up with a specification for a .12 SPEC Nitro engine, give it to the engine manufacturers and say oh yeah it has to MSRP for $129.00

There is a market for this type of class, like I posted earlier until the box stock class went haywire it was a VERY popular class, why? Cause it was cost-controlled, one motor would last an entire season of racing, the cars were easy on parts cause they were not uber-fast and it was a nice entry way for new drivers, silly me wanting to have a class that allows new racers easier entry....

davidl

iTrader: (41)

Tiger - I remember you from South NJ. I remember you running in that box stock class. I also remember some people in that class being very sensitive about their engines and questions asked by other competitors and bystanders. As it turns out, I know some of the things a few were doing to the engines that didn't fit your box stock class. To bad for the rest of you.

But that is not the point of my reply. I stated in my earlier post that claiming rules were good in local events and series. I believe that to be true for this stock class you are suggesting now. I know that Ray will run you guys as a stock class. The guys at Millville will probably do the same. I fully support that competition in your area. Knock yourself out with enjoyment.

The details for a local series are not hard and fit the spirit and rules that ROAR currently has. Your group should make the decision of the engine to use. Maybe at that point, you can get one of the hobby shops to support it to the point of obtaining the engines for all the participants. You could probably get a pretty good deal with a bulk buy. But the point is that you have control of your own destiny. That fits the spirit under which this country was founded. Freedom to race the way you want within the structure of a sanctioning body.

Orange

It would probably be better served to ask the manufacturers if they feel something like that is cost effective for them.

ROAR can make a class all day long, doesn't mean they (MFG'S) are going to make an engine for it.

What if there was just a price cap on the engines just like electric racing has and we leave it alone from that point?

Here is where it get's interesting..... Price cap really means nothing in stock electric racing as that only limits the motor's initial cost. A racer that knows what to do will make it fast, sometimes...unbelievably fast.

Now making a engine that is un-tamperable, LOL.... that is funny! Racers are pretty creative.....This is a HOBBY after all!! Most seasoned racers started this whole thing as a hobby, they learned how to do "craft" type of stuff in the process. If there are "wires/gadgets" that are there to keep it in tact, then there WILL be a way to get around it IMO.

Now I do feel that having a "Spec" type of class is feasable for fuel racing, but in the process, I don't think it would be up to ROAR to say what motor would be the only motor allowed to use in it. I think that manufacturers would definately frown on that!! Now if there were some guidlines to follow, that manufacturers could design a motor to follow them and all of them are allowed to make a motor that could compete in the class, possibly feasible. But I doubt cost effective for them.

Basically, you are saying that a motor should be designed that cannot be tampered with by the racer..... This takes engineering to design extra parts....probably to be used for an existing engine the company has, that will cost them money..... Now you have to probably have xtra stuff for the motor made and tooling costs will get them.....Now you have training for the people that assemble them, more money for them....New packaging for the engines and a whole new set of designing to be done, $$.... Marketing of it, on top of all the other engines they have in their lineup, $$.... etc, etc.... I think it would probably be 4-5 years before they even "make" money on all the work they put into it.

You guy's, it's simple to just say it on a message board, and who knows....maybe there are manufacturers that are reading this and saying "Hey, I think it could be done" But I doubt it! Most are probably going "Are you kidding me!?!?!?" Personally, that is where I'm at.

I think the most feasable thing to do would be to put a price cap and leave it at that.

Just my .38

Sean

Orange

The OS .12 keeps coming up in this topic as well... I don't understand that one at all!! If anything, Picco .12's would probably be more feasable because more manufacturers/oem's have access to that engine then the OS line of engines. Almost everyone has Picco based engines.

But in the end, I think that tooling and extra costs for the engines to make them "Un-tamperable" would be equally costly as well.

speedxl

you dont have to seal the engine but at least have where the internal parts are marked where if yo machine touch or molest anything its noticable.
Yea there are guys in elecric stock racing that know how to tune their motors but end result they arent that much faster and they cant cut and grind the hard parts.
the base motor is still there.
on nitro fuel can be used to tune and you can mess with the carb all you want bottom line is keeping the sleave, piston, crankcase cranks bearings, and rod untouchable. same bases as stock electric.
it would keep the field closer! But hey its only an opinion. Your the ones that will suffer in the long run having the cost on par with an 8th scale.

speedxl

Its being used as example. Base engine easy to get. reliable used by many rtr's.
it can be any engine.

Dont need to have special tooling to take an existing motor and measure it. When teched a known good motor should be there to have as a comparison to see if the motor was touched.
We arent talking at club levels but at higher reggional and national events.
Also not changing the rules but make an extra class and call it stock nitro.
different chassis can run as allowed in electric stock racing just the engines would be spec.

You'd still have your current nitro rules and class it would just be called OpenMod or openclass.

Put some thought into it ask people and see if at the next nationals you could put on an exhibition class and see how it works out. You might be surprized.

WARDO

The spec class works on a local level. We tried a spec class and any new racer we got , right away wanted a faster motor.I know cost limits some people from running this class, but I am going to a race this weekend where 50 people will run the nitro touring class, and I know none of them are intrested in a spec class. At least 40 of them will be at the nats , ( it is here in Texas). I will ask people at the nats what they think, but at that level I think it would not be recieved well.This debate as gone on since the 70's, and will probably continue long after we are gone. The fact remains it's racing , it's not cheap,and it never will be.

rcfoolz

iTrader: (22)

If the racers want to get involved and start a class like this, a "SPEC" motor/engine doesn't need to be SSLLLOOOWWWW, it can be quite competitive and one thing that would solve all the issues if the Manufactures would agree, is interchangable parts. Any manufacture could produce a "spec" motor and all parts are interchangable with other "spec" motors. Make cranks all the same, but in a different diamiter. Make the piston and sleeve so that it only fits "spec" motors. This could solve the issue of only one manufacture working on it. All the parts would have to meet scifications so tech wouldn't be that hard to do.

JKA

iTrader: (4)

I price limit on initial motor cost would help but no enough in my opinion. There are "modders" out there that charge 80 or 100 bucks to have you nitro mill modded. So you are quickly looking at $200-$250 motors.

Sealed spec type motors are good in theory but like Orange said, probably not the most economically viable option intially. Someone would need to contact the manufacturers to find out more details there.

Maybe coupling a claim rule with an initial motor price cap could solve most of the issues.

I agree though, nitro racing would be much more appealing if not for the $400 engines

In the end though WARDO is pretty close to right when stating that there is no such thing as "budget racing". You can limit the costs on one area of racing (ie engines) and racers will use that money in other areas (ie. one run tires). It can make cost have a lesser impact though, but inevitably cost will always play a part in racing.

EdwardN

iTrader: (1)

I can make piston/liner sets, crancks, head buttons, etc for any brand within a month. So this will be no restriction, at list for me and everybody else who use my services-www.palmarisracing.com
Edward

N4S

iTrader: (8)

It says this is ask rick wilson..... Does he reply to these posts ? If he does then my question is this........ I recently heard from my local club track that 19 turn neither touring or 1/12 scale will be running at the on-roads nationals this year. WHY ?????????????????????? This would be a huge mistake due to the # of people who run these two classes. Also , these were the only two classes i was planning on running. I truely believe you need to re think this decision....... As it stands i may not attend this event . I know i am only one person , but every racer counts right ?

N4S

iTrader: (8)

Bueller Bueller ....................................Does any Roar representitive want to address this ??????

Orange

This is the "Ask the president" Thread.... I think it would be better served if he answered....

BTW: In case anyone is wondering, Dawn is at the Fuel Off-Road Nat's, for which she has no time to respond....Just so everyone knows....