BlackKat

Is there any possibility of the Stock class being changed from brushed to brushless within the next year or so?

While we don't have the brushless techonology to run open mod with brushless motors we already have a stock, brushless system (Novak 4300)

This would be a good change, making the stock class originally what it was ment to be (a cost effective class where the speed of the cars is the same)

Thanks
-Dan

ROARprez

Stock will not be completely a brushless class. ROAR is doing our best to transition with the technology and racer desire. At this time thier are rules and room for both technologies. As more and more racers use brushless motors then at that time we will look at options.

BlackKat

Thank you Mr. Wilson

Does ROAR have plans to allow brushless stock motors to be used in the same class as brushed stock motors at Level 1 & 2 events in 2005?

-Dan

ROARprez

That would be up to the track operators for level 1 and 2 races.

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

Brushless brought me back into this hobby after a 13 year break. No more motor maintanence, nice. However, the rejection and resistance allowing it to run with the older technology is hurting it's growth. Which, IMO, hurts the hobby overall.

My club has recently started to allow me to run the 4300 BL (stock brushless) in with 27T stock (I've been relegated to open previously). I've turned my throttle end point (on radio) down to about 80% and it seems fairly fair. Of course the guy who has 3 runs on his comm, is still going to complain.

What about just making stock brushless have a higher minimum weight? Like 55oz or 56oz? Has that been considered or studied?

If newcomers are told that they have to get a 27T brushed motor if they expect to run at most tracks, brushless will never be accepted.

Adding weight would seem to be a quite easy solution.

Boomer

Problem is that it's NOT the same as a 27T motor. No matter what you do with your brushless, we (traditional 27t guys) are never going to accept you into the 27T fold simply because you're NOT stock.

Trying to get yourself folded into 27T stock is going to continue to cause yourself problems.

Instead, you need to get people to GO brushless.

Your two large hurdles:

Price - sure, it's less expensive to go brushless over the long haul but I don't know many people who are going to pop down $200-$300 for speed control and motor - RIGHT NOW. We already have esc's so the $150 for esc isn't an argument - we'd be getting rid of existing technology to do something else and I'm not gonna go there - especially since it would be on at least three cars!!! That's nearly a thousand dollars. . . not gonna do it, wouldn't be prudent at this juncture!

Acceptance - we've been battling this in Pro10 for years in Southern California. We finally have gotten enough people to have two consistent classes (Int and Sportsman) but we had to build it from scratch. We had to get around 6 guys and promote it from within (6 so that we always had 4. . .)

You're going to have to do the same at your track for level 1&2.

Roar has made accomodation at the last Nats - Novak GAVE the danged things to people to promote the class.

Don't look to ROAR for your local track - they don't have the people, they don't have the resources, they don't really have the ROLE to promote a new class at your local track.

It's your responsibility. Sorry to sound so blunt! But I've been there and had to do that!

GordonFreeman

iTrader: (2)

Certainly stock brushless is not the same at 27T, but not all 27T brushed motors are the same. A 27T brushed motor with 3 runs on it is not the same as a freshly tuned 27T brushed motor or one that has the right brushes and springs. I could also charge my batteries at 10 amps if I want, shouldn't we spec the charge rate?

I've been trying my damnest to get people to go brushless and have gotten a few. The problem is, the good racers and the good competition are still in the 27T class. At our club it would make more sense to just put everybody in the same class, regardless of hardware, and let it play out with an A, B and C heats/mains, instead of 3 classes with crappy competition in each.

And by the by, I won't mention the site, but you can get a stock brushless SYSTEM for $155 right now!

I am so close to going brushed, just to be able to compete (offically legal) in the competetive class, it's just frustrating for me because I like the maintanence free aspect of brushless.

I guess I don't expect ROAR to set my local clubs rule. It would just be something on my side to be able to say, "Look, ROAR says if the car weighs 55oz, it's legal to run in stock." Obviously any club can do whatever they want to.

I'm mean the current ROAR rules state exactly:

"1. Approved stock Brushless Motors must conform to the technical specifications in Rule 1 above except will use a stator wind of no less than 10 1/2 continuous turns per slot which is equivalent to a existing ROAR legal 27 turn stock motor. A minimum inductance reading can be used to tech the stock motors. Ball bearings are allowed."

And ROARprez, what about the weight idea? Has it been discussed/considered? At least as a temporary fix.

Boomer

As someone on the Electric On-Road rules committee, I would want to see some evidence that adding weight to a brushless car will accomplish what you want.

But in club racing, weight is rarely enforced anyway so what's the point with that?

right now, the brushless manu's are trying to compensate via their ESC's rather than by hobbling their motors, and I don't blame them. And it's difficult to verify that someone's ESC is set properly prior to a race and it would really be sad if someone ran a FAST race, handicapping everyone else (who had to move aside in IFMAR quals), and then was DQ'd - but everyone else was still handicapped.

I'm all for BL gaining acceptance but putting them in with stock isn't, to my thinking, the way to do it.