Ya it was a gen2 track star. Wasn't blinking was the first clue. It reverted to its "factory pre-sets". The tekin rs also seems to do it constantly as well. Don't create rules you can't enforce and that'll never be a problem. I've been accused of cheating more times than I can count. Even had motor torn down multiple times at a trinity street spec race by the one and only Jim dieter. I was found to be legal every time. In all my years of racing probably only ran into a handful of people actually blanatly cheating. Raced long enough to remember Chris doseck being disqualified for a broken wheel disc at the us indoor championships.

As I do try some stuff I did this:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/ftp/sensor.jpg

Even the guys doing the Dutch national electric section could not tell me what was wrong and those guys are the ones who write their part of the rule book....

By soldering the sensors on the edge of the pcb solder tabs there was about an extra 10 degree timing.

Roelof, are you the tech inspector for your races? I'm not intending to be insulting just asking

Are you sure that gave an extra 10 degrees? I'm only seeing a small offset, maybe a couple of degrees.

People are asking me to think about some stuff. I have some technical sight in an electronic and a mechanical way and I am able to design and create stuff.

I got this old (ETS) Speed Passion 13.5T stock motor to work with creating my FDR meter. With this and a LRP X11 motor next to it I could also take a look of what was possible. Beside this easy and nearly invisable cheat I also managed to build a magnet strenth meter because the talk about this motor was that the rotor of te GM motors look the same but are stronger.

It was fun and sad at the same time to show this picture to people who actually do open motors to check the components. It gave me the prove that they had no clue where to look at.

If you want to do it right you need to create a manual with pictures, dimensions and a list of all the stuff what can be changed (cheated) on the motor. I have never seen such a manual.

The move was about 1mm on a circel diameter of about 12mm (x PI = +/- 36mm outline)

Thanks Howard. I was hoping you would respond. This will help me deal with the racers in a logical way.

It might also move the discussion in the direction of a single ESC manufacturer in our blinky classes like the current ETS F1 or the old VTA Novak situation.

Those in the US and referencing ROAR ESC approval - what is enforced at events?

ROAR definitely keep an approved ESC list, but the only place I can find the list "used" in the rule book is VTA.

The other electric sections state that Blinky ESCs must be used, but do not reference the list specifically - as the VTA section does.

See attached.

Similar, But different, the BRCA rules state a zero timing ESC must be used - and the rules spell out what that is clearly. In another section of the rules it says the ESC must come from "the relevant approved list" - but the only list that exists ("Blinky ESC approved list") states it is used for 1/12th - mentions nothing of ISTC or off-road.

I have done this and found all it does is moves your timing marks on the can. This is still physical timing and all it will do is allow either 1-5 more or less degrees of timing available to achieve. You can open every motor you own and look at the hall sensors and they will all be randomly positioned. When I first started messing with them, I was aligning them more than anything. I would be able to get matching timing readings with a Motolyzer this way.
By the way, physical timing is still very legal and this "adjustment" would not be illegal.

For fixed endbell timing classes, this is considered a cheat.

That's why they must be sealed and tamper proof the entire race .

At a roar national event, for blinky classes they have an oscilloscope with them and will do spot checks for timing in post tech.

Using a motortester to get them all 3 equal will help in a better running motor but is it illegal? Moving them to add timing is for sure illegal. In my opinion anything you change at the motor is illegal.

This is the rear of the speed passion motor:

http://www.redrc.net/wp-content/uplo...ellMotor-2.jpg

Some people did shave off the edges of the sensor connector so it did go a bit further into the rounding end of the hole in the backplate. I have seen one guy who milled the hole a bit wider to add more timing. And not to mention the 10 degree sensor PCB could be replaced by an optional 20 or even a 30 degree version. These had a differen color PCB but a black marker could do the trick....

For sure this was a bad choise to use as a stock motor.....

In my opinion running sensorless will remove a lot of options to cheat.

But your missing the point (or maybe I am ) in today's racing motors have adjustable timing on,in motors ,but it's static timing . So theirs a trade off when using timing. But theirs no easy way to add dynamic timing into the motor it self