2Likes17.5 tips and speed secrets
08-17-2016, 02:20 PM
#196
Hahaha. I too get tired of the cliche even though it's true. Most guys like you and I have the financial means and the know how to push our equipment and make it the best that we can. The flip side is the driving talent has to be there to take advantage of the equipment as well.
Layton did not have the fastest car at nationals, I think Borden did personally. Borden also had a penchant for snagging pipes and getting punted by other cars. That track especially didn't reward the faster car, which is both good and bad. If you watch Layton's driving style and his lines, that kid is doing some next level stuff, and I put just as much time into my driving as I do my equipment. Layton was scrubbing those jumps HARD, as well getting the car to land super fast. Then, he had certain corners where we was lined up 5 feet earlier than others.
Phend was much the same; the right hander after the rollers on the right, Phend was lined up for that apex while still in the rollers, requiring very little steering input, which meant less speed scrubbed through that section. It was a treat to watch.
Layton did not have the fastest car at nationals, I think Borden did personally. Borden also had a penchant for snagging pipes and getting punted by other cars. That track especially didn't reward the faster car, which is both good and bad. If you watch Layton's driving style and his lines, that kid is doing some next level stuff, and I put just as much time into my driving as I do my equipment. Layton was scrubbing those jumps HARD, as well getting the car to land super fast. Then, he had certain corners where we was lined up 5 feet earlier than others.
Phend was much the same; the right hander after the rollers on the right, Phend was lined up for that apex while still in the rollers, requiring very little steering input, which meant less speed scrubbed through that section. It was a treat to watch.
08-17-2016, 02:23 PM
#197
The fantom, get the works type M with the 12.5 rotor and elect for the 1600+ gauss and you will have the fastest motor at your track. Get your car to right on 1499, and do everything you can to get the rotating assembly lightened. Run a WTF 30mm fan off 8.4v and you'll be set. Start at 32x72 and work from there.
08-17-2016, 07:38 PM
#200
Reason Im asking is Im looking to step up my game in 17.5 this winter. Last year bought a B5m factory lite for 17.5 racing just to have another class to run, and didn't take it too seriously. Just starting to read up on this technique, I saw guys with these chargers, but didn't realize running a warm battery improved performance till recently. All the guys that beat me in 17.5 seemed to be using standard Orion, Reedy, Hitec 10-12 amp chargers and were definitely not cycling.
08-17-2016, 07:47 PM
#202
The fantom type M and the R1 Wurks v7 are both very hard to beat on a tight super high bite track in my experience. The motiv is close, but lacks the bottom end the other two have.
The fantom, get the works type M with the 12.5 rotor and elect for the 1600+ gauss and you will have the fastest motor at your track. Get your car to right on 1499, and do everything you can to get the rotating assembly lightened. Run a WTF 30mm fan off 8.4v and you'll be set. Start at 32x72 and work from there.
The fantom, get the works type M with the 12.5 rotor and elect for the 1600+ gauss and you will have the fastest motor at your track. Get your car to right on 1499, and do everything you can to get the rotating assembly lightened. Run a WTF 30mm fan off 8.4v and you'll be set. Start at 32x72 and work from there.
BTW thanks! thats some great info.
08-17-2016, 08:03 PM
#203
How do your batteries hold up doing this. You do this for club racing, practice, or just big races? How much do you think warming up your packs improves your lap times? What's the ideal battery temp after cycling like this?
Reason Im asking is Im looking to step up my game in 17.5 this winter. Last year bought a B5m factory lite for 17.5 racing just to have another class to run, and didn't take it too seriously. Just starting to read up on this technique, I saw guys with these chargers, but didn't realize running a warm battery improved performance till recently. All the guys that beat me in 17.5 seemed to be using standard Orion, Reedy, Hitec 10-12 amp chargers and were definitely not cycling.
Reason Im asking is Im looking to step up my game in 17.5 this winter. Last year bought a B5m factory lite for 17.5 racing just to have another class to run, and didn't take it too seriously. Just starting to read up on this technique, I saw guys with these chargers, but didn't realize running a warm battery improved performance till recently. All the guys that beat me in 17.5 seemed to be using standard Orion, Reedy, Hitec 10-12 amp chargers and were definitely not cycling.
your batteries won't last long doing that.
08-17-2016, 08:32 PM
#204
Tech Initiate
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Last edited by Okokobioko; 09-16-2018 at 10:59 PM.
08-17-2016, 09:29 PM
#205
Socket is far from a basher. He races with many top level stock racers. They do bring forth great setups and information that is passed along to the forums. Being that he races with the great one known as Humpty, the information he provides is very proven information. Though he is a little brash on his comments, he does mean well in his responses to warrant listening to him.
As far as 4.35 its club level charging for the Arizona scene, I would never recommend this charge voltage. 4.22v should be adhered to in order to prevent issues from degrading your batteries and possible explosions. Charging to a 4.35 will quickly kill your batteries if they are not a lihv pack.
This provides more power early and later in the run. Typically the best way to see how much you use in a battery is to look at how much mah is required to put back in it. For example my 4250 will take around 1500mah@20A with a resistance of about 3ohms for the pack.
Heating packs is good and bad. There is little information on what is best for the batteries so there is no true answer to this. The airplane guys have found better performance getting the packs to around 110F prior to a run. Now on the other hand mod sedan guys keep the batteries cool to make the acceleration smoother. In my opinion its best to charge under 20A just to gain the quick charging but without the degrading of the high amp charge.
The guy who won at the ROAR Nationals was only charging at ROAR rules of 2s and still walked away in 17.5 buggy. Take the money you would spend buying new batteries every 3 months charging at 40A and spend some time practicing and learning the car and what goes on with it. You don't always have to change setup on the car to get track time but rather learn to apply smoother throttle and smoother braking efforts. One thing I will do is just go out and not mess with setup and just try to drive the car. You might be slower but over time you will gain better control and become faster when the car does work.
One great tool that most people don't look at is the esc. Tekin provides a great data recording that will show issues with your gearing and even chassis setup issues. To top that off, Tekin's team manager has a great video floating around online somewhere that is a seminar explains a lot of our stock class problem. Just know that even though it is put on by Tekin, there is information that everyone should find helpful.
As far as 4.35 its club level charging for the Arizona scene, I would never recommend this charge voltage. 4.22v should be adhered to in order to prevent issues from degrading your batteries and possible explosions. Charging to a 4.35 will quickly kill your batteries if they are not a lihv pack.
This provides more power early and later in the run. Typically the best way to see how much you use in a battery is to look at how much mah is required to put back in it. For example my 4250 will take around 1500mah@20A with a resistance of about 3ohms for the pack.
Heating packs is good and bad. There is little information on what is best for the batteries so there is no true answer to this. The airplane guys have found better performance getting the packs to around 110F prior to a run. Now on the other hand mod sedan guys keep the batteries cool to make the acceleration smoother. In my opinion its best to charge under 20A just to gain the quick charging but without the degrading of the high amp charge.
The guy who won at the ROAR Nationals was only charging at ROAR rules of 2s and still walked away in 17.5 buggy. Take the money you would spend buying new batteries every 3 months charging at 40A and spend some time practicing and learning the car and what goes on with it. You don't always have to change setup on the car to get track time but rather learn to apply smoother throttle and smoother braking efforts. One thing I will do is just go out and not mess with setup and just try to drive the car. You might be slower but over time you will gain better control and become faster when the car does work.
One great tool that most people don't look at is the esc. Tekin provides a great data recording that will show issues with your gearing and even chassis setup issues. To top that off, Tekin's team manager has a great video floating around online somewhere that is a seminar explains a lot of our stock class problem. Just know that even though it is put on by Tekin, there is information that everyone should find helpful.
08-17-2016, 09:49 PM
#207
All depends on who you ask to be honest. Its called an opinion. lol I really like the way Amain stands behind the Protek line. The 4250 is a great battery and has a low resistance allowing it to perform well in the stock class. Its a lihv pack as well.
08-17-2016, 09:55 PM
#209
I would like to see Roar or whoever make a battery temp rule. It seem ridiculous to cycle your batteries like this for a small performance gain, but i guess thats a different can of worms.
I went to about 10 trophy type races last year and at only one did they do any tech of 17.5 classes. I'd like to see at least minimum tech like weight, voltage, and blinky mode enabled before each heat, just to keep guys honest.....especially with all these new higher voltage batteries hitting the market
I went to about 10 trophy type races last year and at only one did they do any tech of 17.5 classes. I'd like to see at least minimum tech like weight, voltage, and blinky mode enabled before each heat, just to keep guys honest.....especially with all these new higher voltage batteries hitting the market