8LikesSanwa / Airtronics M12 (Check first post for FAQ & Info)
04-27-2012, 09:20 AM
#1
Sanwa / Airtronics M12 (Check first post for FAQ & Info)
This thread is for Airtronics M12 Info. If you have anything to add, please PM me the info and I will update this thread.
A big thanks to everyone for helping make this an awesome thread with tons of info. If you are a new M12 owner, please review this post...many questions can be answered here.
Check out the FAQ's and Radio Tips section's below!
Airtronics M12 Website
PC-Link Manager 2 (M12 PC Software)
M12 User's Guide
Review by RC Driver
Aitronics TV on YouTube
Questions & Answers (FAQs)
If you have a question or know the answer to to something...PM me so I can get this Q&A section updated.
Q: The Push-Button Rotary Dial on my M12 is reversed. How do I fix it? (Credit to WingRacer)
A: See "Changing the Direction of the Push-Button Rotary Dial" on page 16 in the User Guide.
Q: When using the drop down with the angle adapter, can the drop down be rotated forwards?
A: Short answer, no. The drop down is in a fixed position, the angle adapter does not change that, as the angle adapter sits between the drop down piece and wheel piece.
Q: I'm about to calibrate M12 and I'm not sure about the endpoint settings? Should I have throttle, brake and steering set at 100% or 150%?
A: It should be set to 100% when calibrating.
Q: Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement screen protector for my M12?
A: Use samsung note 1 SP, and cut a bit.
Q: Where is the Brake EPA Setting?
A: It's referred to as the brake dual rate on the M12. Sanwa/Airtronics gave it a different name for some reason. Just use BR D/R and it's the same as Brake EPA when programming. You just need to realize the programming is a bit different, but all the functions are basically the same.
Q: What is the width of the Brake Side of the Trigger?
A: 7.5mm (Credit to stanleyw808)
Q: What is the best RX (receiver) to run with the M12?
A: The RX-471 or any of the FHSS receivers.
Q: I want to use Telemetry, which RX do I need?
A: Airtronics RX-461, RX-462, or RX-472 (RX-472 is capable of telemetry when used with an Airtronics M12 or Sanwa Exzes-Z transmitter and a Sanwa Super Vortex ZERO ESC).
Q: Does this RX-471 have a built in voltage regulator?
A: No. A 2-Cell (2S) Li-Po or Li-Fe battery pack can be used to power the receiver without the use of a voltage regulator. The receiver's Nominal Input Voltage is 4.8 ~ 7.4 volts. Check page 8 in the manual for more information.
Q: What is SSL?
A: Short Answer is...Sanwa Synchronized Link. The long answer is...When used with an Airtronics M12, MT-4S or Sanwa EXZES-Z transmitter, an RX-472 2.4GHz FH4T Super Response 4-channel receiver and the Sanwa Super Vortex ZERO ESC, the Sanwa Synchronized Link (SSL) system allows you to change many ESC programming values directly from the transmitter using the transmitter's CODE AUX function. This saves you the time and hassle of not needing to stop and change programming values manually through the ESC. You can make these changes remotely and in higher resolution increments for improved performance. In addition, telemetry data such as speed or RPM, ESC temperature, motor temperature (if supported), and battery voltage can be read directly from the Super Vortex ZERO ESC and displayed on the transmitter.
Accessories
Cover For Throttle Trigger, Sanwa M12 or MT4 Radio
Transmitter Case Inserts
ProTek Foam Insert (PTK-8174)
Transmitter Cases
ProTek R/C Universal Radio Case (PTK-8160)
JConcepts Airtronics M12 Radio Bag (JCO2203)
SpeedMind Deluex TX Bag for Sanwa M12 (Signature Edition) Ver.3 (SP-TB-M12S)
Transmitter Batteries
LiFe:
Reedy LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1300mAh) [ASC305]
Turnigy nano-tech 1450mAh 2S1P 20~40C LiFePo4 Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000045]
Huge R/C 1450mah 6.6V LiFePo Tx/Rx Stick Pack [Product Code: HRC-HUGE1450]
ProTek R/C LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1600mAh) (w/Balancer Plug) [PTK-LF-RX1600-L-2S]
LRP VTEC LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1700mAh) [LRP430300]
GForce 5C 1800mAh 2S 6.6V LiFe Pack [SKU: RFI-LF-1455]
VOLTZ 2300mah 2S 6.6V RX LiFe Pack [Product Code: VZ0260]
LiPo:
Turnigy nano-tech 1300mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000041]
Turnigy nano-tech 1500mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000042]
Turnigy nano-tech 2000mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000043]
Reedy Li-Poly Flat Receiver Battery Pack w/Balancer Plug (7.4V/2100mAh) [ASC315]
SMC True Spec 2100mAh 7.4V Flat Receiver Pack [Product Code: 2115-2S1PF]
Hobby People Transmitter LiPo - M12/SD10G/M11X/MT4/MX3X 7.4V 2300 [No. 117271]
ProTek R/C Li-Poly Flat Receiver Battery Pack (7.4V/2300mAh) (w/Balancer Plug) [PTK-LP-RX2300-L-2S]
ProTek R/C Li-Poly Transmitter Battery Pack (7.4V/2800mAh) (MT-4, M11X, M12) [PTK-LP-TXA2800-2S]
Turnigy nano-tech 3000mAh 2S2P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000044]
LRP VTEC LiPo 3000 TX-Pack Sanwa M12/MT-4/Exzes-X/SD-10G - TX-only - 7.4V [Art. no.: 430355]
SSR Servo
If you know of a non-Airtronics Servo that works in SSR Mode, PM me so I can get it added to this list.
SSR mode is only compatible with SRG/SSR series receivers and servos.
Please be aware that analog servos will not be compatible with the fastest radio settings: SHR, SSR mode.
To prevent risk of trouble, do not use analog servo under SHR, SSR mode.
Digital servos, SRG, Digital ERG, SDX can be activated under either NOR or SHR mode.
Airtronics 94915D SRG-BZX “R” HV BL Servo w/Det. Wires
Airtronics 94933D SRG-BRS HV BL Servo w/Det. Wires
Airtronics 94925D SRG-BLS Low Profile BL Servo w/Det.Wires
SRG-HR (Micro 1/12 Servo)
I don't know of anyone that has tested these servo's, but Graupner says they'll work with SSR mode.
If you have used these and can verify they work in SSR mode, please let me know.
HGM SLP Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Highspeed/ 40.0x19.5x25.6 [P/N: #94050]
HGM SST Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Speed/ 40.0x19.5x39.2 [P/N: #94051]
HGM SOR Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Torqe/ 40.0x20.0x40.4 [P/N: #94052]
Sanwa Super Response Mode with the Sanwa M12
Full Size Image Here
Full Size Image Here
I emailed Airtronics regarding SSR Servo's. I appreciate their quick responses! Below are the emails.
To Airtronics Jan 18, 2015:
"I am looking for servo's that will work with the fastest settings (SSR Mode). The Airtronics servo's that you guys have are hard to find in stock anywhere and they are very expensive at $200 each. Can you please answer these questions.
1. Will Airtronics be releasing any more servo's that will work in SSR mode?
2. What are the requirements of a servo to work in SSR mode? Meaning, what specifications do I need to look for in a non-Airtronics servo to know if it will work with the SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"SSR mode is essentially a very high frame rate for the servo signal. Other brands of servos may work in the SSR mode but we have not tested them so we can make no guarantees. We always have new servos in development, including some SSR ones. New servos tend to come out every 3 - 6 months."
To Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"Is there the possibility of damaging the receiver, radio, or servo if I tried using a non-airtronics servo in SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"It's unlikely that the transmitter or receiver would get damaged, but the servo might overheat or fail in some other way."
To Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"Oh, OK. What are the servo specs required to work with SSR mode? What specs are required from a non-Airtronics servo in order to work with SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 20, 2015:
"The M12's SSR signal has a 2600us period, a center position of 300us and the extremes are at 50us and 550us."
Radio Tips
Regarding Dual Rate
So think about brake D/R as "brake percent" and it makes better sense.
Email from Airtronics...
Craig Kaplan wrote:
"On the M12, the EPA and D/R for the brake are almost the same. When referring to the Brake EPA, this is only done in the set up of the servo and used more like a limit as to how much the rear brake should move at its maximum throw.
Once you've set up the Brake EPA, your movement for adjustment is 100% of that movement. For adjustments during racing, the radio looks at your brake movement and uses a D/R to limit the amount of that movement.
For example: Brake EPA is set to 64%. The servo will not move more than 64% of the servo's throw at maximum. The Brake D/R is set to 100. Adjust the Brake D/R to 50% and it acts as if it is taking 50% of the 64% value you input in your EPA.
They're almost synonymous, but if you just think of the dual rates as a movement it becomes a little bit clearer and easier to understand. So when you're looking at you main screen, the Brake D/R is based off of the throw you've set in the EPA screen.
As for controlling it on a trim switch, it's already a default at trim 5. If you adjust it you'll see the brake D/R adjust down as well which will limit the amount of brake movement you have. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Craig"
-----------------------------------------------
Big thanks to My ST-RR EVO for the tips on setting Brake Dual Rate & Neutral Point
A big thanks to everyone for helping make this an awesome thread with tons of info. If you are a new M12 owner, please review this post...many questions can be answered here.
Check out the FAQ's and Radio Tips section's below!
Airtronics M12 Website
PC-Link Manager 2 (M12 PC Software)
M12 User's Guide
Review by RC Driver
| + YouTube Video | |
Aitronics TV on YouTube
Questions & Answers (FAQs)
If you have a question or know the answer to to something...PM me so I can get this Q&A section updated.
Q: The Push-Button Rotary Dial on my M12 is reversed. How do I fix it? (Credit to WingRacer)
A: See "Changing the Direction of the Push-Button Rotary Dial" on page 16 in the User Guide.
Q: When using the drop down with the angle adapter, can the drop down be rotated forwards?
A: Short answer, no. The drop down is in a fixed position, the angle adapter does not change that, as the angle adapter sits between the drop down piece and wheel piece.
Q: I'm about to calibrate M12 and I'm not sure about the endpoint settings? Should I have throttle, brake and steering set at 100% or 150%?
A: It should be set to 100% when calibrating.
Q: Does anyone know where I can buy a replacement screen protector for my M12?
A: Use samsung note 1 SP, and cut a bit.
Q: Where is the Brake EPA Setting?
A: It's referred to as the brake dual rate on the M12. Sanwa/Airtronics gave it a different name for some reason. Just use BR D/R and it's the same as Brake EPA when programming. You just need to realize the programming is a bit different, but all the functions are basically the same.
Q: What is the width of the Brake Side of the Trigger?
A: 7.5mm (Credit to stanleyw808)
Q: What is the best RX (receiver) to run with the M12?
A: The RX-471 or any of the FHSS receivers.
Q: I want to use Telemetry, which RX do I need?
A: Airtronics RX-461, RX-462, or RX-472 (RX-472 is capable of telemetry when used with an Airtronics M12 or Sanwa Exzes-Z transmitter and a Sanwa Super Vortex ZERO ESC).
Q: Does this RX-471 have a built in voltage regulator?
A: No. A 2-Cell (2S) Li-Po or Li-Fe battery pack can be used to power the receiver without the use of a voltage regulator. The receiver's Nominal Input Voltage is 4.8 ~ 7.4 volts. Check page 8 in the manual for more information.
Q: What is SSL?
A: Short Answer is...Sanwa Synchronized Link. The long answer is...When used with an Airtronics M12, MT-4S or Sanwa EXZES-Z transmitter, an RX-472 2.4GHz FH4T Super Response 4-channel receiver and the Sanwa Super Vortex ZERO ESC, the Sanwa Synchronized Link (SSL) system allows you to change many ESC programming values directly from the transmitter using the transmitter's CODE AUX function. This saves you the time and hassle of not needing to stop and change programming values manually through the ESC. You can make these changes remotely and in higher resolution increments for improved performance. In addition, telemetry data such as speed or RPM, ESC temperature, motor temperature (if supported), and battery voltage can be read directly from the Super Vortex ZERO ESC and displayed on the transmitter.
Accessories
Cover For Throttle Trigger, Sanwa M12 or MT4 Radio
Transmitter Case Inserts
ProTek Foam Insert (PTK-8174)
Transmitter Cases
ProTek R/C Universal Radio Case (PTK-8160)
JConcepts Airtronics M12 Radio Bag (JCO2203)
SpeedMind Deluex TX Bag for Sanwa M12 (Signature Edition) Ver.3 (SP-TB-M12S)
Transmitter Batteries
LiFe:
Reedy LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1300mAh) [ASC305]
Turnigy nano-tech 1450mAh 2S1P 20~40C LiFePo4 Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000045]
Huge R/C 1450mah 6.6V LiFePo Tx/Rx Stick Pack [Product Code: HRC-HUGE1450]
ProTek R/C LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1600mAh) (w/Balancer Plug) [PTK-LF-RX1600-L-2S]
LRP VTEC LiFe Flat Receiver Battery Pack (6.6V/1700mAh) [LRP430300]
GForce 5C 1800mAh 2S 6.6V LiFe Pack [SKU: RFI-LF-1455]
VOLTZ 2300mah 2S 6.6V RX LiFe Pack [Product Code: VZ0260]
LiPo:
Turnigy nano-tech 1300mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000041]
Turnigy nano-tech 1500mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000042]
Turnigy nano-tech 2000mAh 2S1P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000043]
Reedy Li-Poly Flat Receiver Battery Pack w/Balancer Plug (7.4V/2100mAh) [ASC315]
SMC True Spec 2100mAh 7.4V Flat Receiver Pack [Product Code: 2115-2S1PF]
Hobby People Transmitter LiPo - M12/SD10G/M11X/MT4/MX3X 7.4V 2300 [No. 117271]
ProTek R/C Li-Poly Flat Receiver Battery Pack (7.4V/2300mAh) (w/Balancer Plug) [PTK-LP-RX2300-L-2S]
ProTek R/C Li-Poly Transmitter Battery Pack (7.4V/2800mAh) (MT-4, M11X, M12) [PTK-LP-TXA2800-2S]
Turnigy nano-tech 3000mAh 2S2P 20~40C Lipo Receiver Pack [PRODUCT ID: 9210000044]
LRP VTEC LiPo 3000 TX-Pack Sanwa M12/MT-4/Exzes-X/SD-10G - TX-only - 7.4V [Art. no.: 430355]
SSR Servo
If you know of a non-Airtronics Servo that works in SSR Mode, PM me so I can get it added to this list.
SSR mode is only compatible with SRG/SSR series receivers and servos.
Please be aware that analog servos will not be compatible with the fastest radio settings: SHR, SSR mode.
To prevent risk of trouble, do not use analog servo under SHR, SSR mode.
Digital servos, SRG, Digital ERG, SDX can be activated under either NOR or SHR mode.
Airtronics 94915D SRG-BZX “R” HV BL Servo w/Det. Wires
Airtronics 94933D SRG-BRS HV BL Servo w/Det. Wires
Airtronics 94925D SRG-BLS Low Profile BL Servo w/Det.Wires
SRG-HR (Micro 1/12 Servo)
I don't know of anyone that has tested these servo's, but Graupner says they'll work with SSR mode.
If you have used these and can verify they work in SSR mode, please let me know.
HGM SLP Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Highspeed/ 40.0x19.5x25.6 [P/N: #94050]
HGM SST Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Speed/ 40.0x19.5x39.2 [P/N: #94051]
HGM SOR Brushless/ Highvoltage/ Torqe/ 40.0x20.0x40.4 [P/N: #94052]
Sanwa Super Response Mode with the Sanwa M12
Full Size Image Here
Full Size Image Here
I emailed Airtronics regarding SSR Servo's. I appreciate their quick responses! Below are the emails.
To Airtronics Jan 18, 2015:
"I am looking for servo's that will work with the fastest settings (SSR Mode). The Airtronics servo's that you guys have are hard to find in stock anywhere and they are very expensive at $200 each. Can you please answer these questions.
1. Will Airtronics be releasing any more servo's that will work in SSR mode?
2. What are the requirements of a servo to work in SSR mode? Meaning, what specifications do I need to look for in a non-Airtronics servo to know if it will work with the SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"SSR mode is essentially a very high frame rate for the servo signal. Other brands of servos may work in the SSR mode but we have not tested them so we can make no guarantees. We always have new servos in development, including some SSR ones. New servos tend to come out every 3 - 6 months."
To Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"Is there the possibility of damaging the receiver, radio, or servo if I tried using a non-airtronics servo in SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"It's unlikely that the transmitter or receiver would get damaged, but the servo might overheat or fail in some other way."
To Airtronics Jan 19, 2015:
"Oh, OK. What are the servo specs required to work with SSR mode? What specs are required from a non-Airtronics servo in order to work with SSR mode?"
From Airtronics Jan 20, 2015:
"The M12's SSR signal has a 2600us period, a center position of 300us and the extremes are at 50us and 550us."
Radio Tips
Regarding Dual Rate
So think about brake D/R as "brake percent" and it makes better sense.
Email from Airtronics...
Craig Kaplan wrote:
"On the M12, the EPA and D/R for the brake are almost the same. When referring to the Brake EPA, this is only done in the set up of the servo and used more like a limit as to how much the rear brake should move at its maximum throw.
Once you've set up the Brake EPA, your movement for adjustment is 100% of that movement. For adjustments during racing, the radio looks at your brake movement and uses a D/R to limit the amount of that movement.
For example: Brake EPA is set to 64%. The servo will not move more than 64% of the servo's throw at maximum. The Brake D/R is set to 100. Adjust the Brake D/R to 50% and it acts as if it is taking 50% of the 64% value you input in your EPA.
They're almost synonymous, but if you just think of the dual rates as a movement it becomes a little bit clearer and easier to understand. So when you're looking at you main screen, the Brake D/R is based off of the throw you've set in the EPA screen.
As for controlling it on a trim switch, it's already a default at trim 5. If you adjust it you'll see the brake D/R adjust down as well which will limit the amount of brake movement you have. Hope this helps.
Regards,
Craig"
-----------------------------------------------
Big thanks to My ST-RR EVO for the tips on setting Brake Dual Rate & Neutral Point
Originally Posted by My ST-RR EVO
On the M12 if you adjust your brake dual rate a significant amount, which is most easily accessed by the switch above your thumb on the grip, the neutral point of the servo will move in addition to the change of your braking power. In nitro buggy this is very problematic b/c now the neutral setting of your carb and brakes is off. I.E. at neutral the horn will have turned which could start opening the carb or applying the brakes. EPA adjustment effects it too. Give it a try. With your equipment powered up, hold the brake dual rate switch one way for 50 beeps while at neutral. Watch the horn move. Then you'll have to go back and readjust your trim to get the neutral point where is supposed to be. Pain in the butt. If this does happen, vr adjust recalibrates and fixes the issue.
Last edited by tksnobords; 07-05-2016 at 08:31 AM. Reason: Watch this space for updates!
04-27-2012, 02:35 PM
#3
modified mt-4? 
and exactly how can you really get any better then an m11x 
and exactly how can you really get any better then an m11x
04-27-2012, 02:51 PM
#4
I've always loved the M8 / M11 / M11X steering wheel to throttle trigger position, regardless of the "top heavy" weight. But from what I can tell from the Sanwa link provided (using Google Translate), Sanwa are pitching this as their new top of the line Transmitter.
I don't really care because I'm not a fan of the MT-4 styling or feel anyway
I don't really care because I'm not a fan of the MT-4 styling or feel anyway
04-27-2012, 04:20 PM
#5
Tech Rookie
Left hand configuration confirmed. Better than the MT-4 in that regard.
Last edited by antimatt; 04-28-2012 at 04:18 PM.
04-27-2012, 05:18 PM
#8
Looks good. Wonder when it's going to be in the hobby shops.
04-27-2012, 07:55 PM
#10
I chuckle evertime I see people stand in line to buy the newest Iphone, but I have to admit that I would stand in line for this radio 
Ever since the CS2P I have been an Airtronics guy!
Hope it still has all of the timing features otherwise I will be disappointed!
Ever since the CS2P I have been an Airtronics guy!
Hope it still has all of the timing features otherwise I will be disappointed!
04-27-2012, 08:10 PM
#11
You don't have to unless you got an extra $700 laying around.
http://www.sanwa-denshi.co.jp/rc/car/propo/m12.html
56700 Yen = $705.31
So am I
Still have my CS2P. Its in mint condition.
Just upgraded my M11 to FHSS-2. Guess I'll upgrade to an M11X when everyone dumps it for the new M12.
http://www.sanwa-denshi.co.jp/rc/car/propo/m12.html
56700 Yen = $705.31
So am I
Still have my CS2P. Its in mint condition.
Just upgraded my M11 to FHSS-2. Guess I'll upgrade to an M11X when everyone dumps it for the new M12.
Have to see what the street price is after mark downs and what it comes with.
04-27-2012, 08:40 PM
#13
You don't have to unless you got an extra $700 laying around.
http://www.sanwa-denshi.co.jp/rc/car/propo/m12.html
56700 Yen = $705.31
So am I
Still have my CS2P. Its in mint condition.
Just upgraded my M11 to FHSS-2. Guess I'll upgrade to an M11X when everyone dumps it for the new M12.
http://www.sanwa-denshi.co.jp/rc/car/propo/m12.html
56700 Yen = $705.31
So am I
Still have my CS2P. Its in mint condition.
Just upgraded my M11 to FHSS-2. Guess I'll upgrade to an M11X when everyone dumps it for the new M12.
m11x here i come
04-27-2012, 09:40 PM
#15
Does anyone want a used M11X? j/k Or should I wait for the M12X?
For me, if it is lighter and more balanced than the top-heavy M11X, then i might consider getting one. At the right price, of course.
Let's all look back at the start of this thread in about a year after this radio is released and see who went from being doubters to thinking this radio is the next best thing since sliced bread.
j/k Or should I wait for the M12X?For me, if it is lighter and more balanced than the top-heavy M11X, then i might consider getting one. At the right price, of course.
Let's all look back at the start of this thread in about a year after this radio is released and see who went from being doubters to thinking this radio is the next best thing since sliced bread.