Motolyser questions
 

I know there are other threads and I looked thru couple of them but couldn’t find the specific info I was after…. That being said I picked up a motolyser 2. Been tuning and playing with motors and I have the general idea what’s going on. I run 21.5, 17.5, and 13.5. That being said what is a good current draw to set motors to. I know it’s a loaded question, but I’m just looking for a starting point to set and test at the track, track is 2 hrs away and I’d like to not spend all day at the track on the dyno. I’m not asking for speed secrets or tricks.. just a good starting place amp draw wise. Also I should all of these motors are g4r with torque rotors, I have stocks aswell.. I have found the 13.5 to be around 5.0draw and pretty good consistent numbers but haven’t hit the track yet. I know heat it a thing too, I’m not looking to burn stuff up either. Last thing. Draw wise, would the 21.5 be set similar to 13.5. Thanks

5 amps is a good place to start. To finetune it, get a Loadmaster from WMH racing. That will go with all your motors. You can then gear your motor for more speed, if needed. Watch your temps, though. Most guys will run temps up to about 160*F while some will tap out at 180*F. As you gear higher, you will also lose torque, so take that into consideration if you're racing in offroad.

Personally, I wouldn't tune by amp draw. Use the Motolyser to check rotor asymmetry, sensor alignment, etc.

To ask an honest question, how does adjusting the timing change the rotor asymmetry and sensor alignment? Aren't those dependent upon how they were manufactured? Shimming can make a little difference, but that alone will not get the max performance from the motor.

I know with moving the timing, you are moving the sensor board. When you find a sweet spot on timing, sometimes I move the sensors to get close to zero as possible. Rotor astmnenty is to see how off the rotor is, some brands right out of the box are off.

This agree with. I would shim a rotor to be as close to the sensors as possible. The difference is minimal, but some people swear it makes a difference. I have not seen a difference in performance by making the rotor asymmetry better than what it was stock. I showed this in one of my videos. Adjusting the timing does not affect the rotor asymmetry, end-bell deviation, or the hall-signal deviation.

• End-bell Timing and Deviation: Shows the sensor timing for each phase (A, B, C) and their deviation from each other. Lower deviation indicates better sensor alignment.
• Rotor Asymmetry: Measures the balance of the magnet's north and south poles. Lower values indicate better rotor manufacturing.
• Hall Signal Deviation: Measures the consistency of the signal from each Hall sensor. A lower value is better.

When shimming the rotor, some will say that it is better to have the rotor centered in the stator for better performance. I have been thinking of doing this test for a while. Maybe it's time I did it.

It doesn't change the rotor symmetry, the tool tells you if you have a good one or a dud. Moving the sensor board can slightly affect sensor alignment due to tolerances in the movement of the board.

Tuning for no load amp draw isn't a great method unless you already know what that particular motor performs well at. No load amp draw tells you nothing about loaded performance.

Shimming the rotor as close to the sensor board as possible isn't always a good idea. You want the rotor's magnetic field centred in the stator.

That's my conclusion. As I mentioned, I get a lot of flack when I shim the rotor that way.

Funny you say that because one of my next videos will be me turning a motor while under a load. This is why I add the loaded numbers on my spreadsheets. Just about all the motors I tested worked best with a 5.5 amp load. However, the ORCA, i just tested, was just under 5 amps.

It doesn't. Changing the timing may alter the sensor alignment a little. But my statement to the OP was to use the Motolyser tool as a gauge to check things like rotor asymmetry as gigaplex said above to see if for example your rotor is good or crap...LOL

As for tuning by no load amp draw the numbers are not very useful. Perhaps if we were all drag racing where the throttle goes from 0-100% to the end of the run, or perhaps oval racing where the average RPM is higher, the number might be somewhat useful. But even with oval racing you'd be better off using an inertia dyno that measures torque under load.

With off-road and especially on-road cars the average RPM of an entire lap is not at Max RPM. I would gather to say that 95% of most folks racing off-road and on-road have their motors over timed and would benefit from lower timing bringing the max torque at an RPM range more within the window of their lap. It would require a gearing change since at the lower timing the KV would be less, but with more torque in the right RPM range the motor will pull more gear and likely produce less heat and be more efficient.

This is all correct. This is also the reason why using a Load Master and/or The Jerry to tune motors. For on-road racing, tuning with a Load Master would ideal. For tracks that require a lot of torque, The Jerry would be better due to the ability to add more of a load to the motor.

The big test I need to do is find out if it's better to drop the timing and gear up or turn the timing up and gear down.

turn the timing down and gear up. Track tested this theory time and time again. You will never find torque in a rpm motor but you can make up for top end on a torque motor.

With gas engines the total horsepower is maximized by more RPM, if the F1 engine was not limited we could have 25.000 rpm engines today as the last non limited engine could reach up to 21.000. With that you need to determine the right gearing. More RPM can be used with a higher FDR that does compensate the loss of torque at the motor to a raised torque at the wheels.

To come to a conclusion which timing works best you need to have a test bench where you can change the gearing to a wished number of topspeed rpm and then measure the torque curve on the geared shaft.

You're comparing an internal combustion engine to an electric motor, two different worlds. With electric motors you have loss in the form of heat at higher timing. Funny thing in this hobby is that other than Mod classes, every other class we don't utilize the capabilities of the ESC's and use boost. Instead we run blinky in just about every other class.