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Old 01-06-2022 | 04:49 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001
The only part that is different is the color of the end plate. If your organization is literally banning motors with a different color end plate they need to get a life.
From the ROAR rules
8.4.2.3 Changes, other than normal production variations, to any area of an approved motor require re-approval of the motor. Examples of specific changes which require re-approval include, but are not limited to: addition of epoxy or other compounds to windings, can color; end piece construction and color; stator length; number of stator laminations; thickness, diameter or shape of stator laminations; wire diameter; can length and can diameter.
Oh look, according to the ROAR rules, using a different colour end piece is actually illegal.
Originally Posted by mrreet2001
THERE IS NO PERFORMANCE BENEFIT FROM THE COLOR OF END-PLATE.

Here is the thing. You can
  1. Have your own track rules. Who cares but they are home rules so they do not apply elsewhere.
  2. Have your country's governing RC body have there own rules
  3. Follow the ROAR rules... which have NOT revoked the legality of the motor. It is up to ROAR to determine if the motor is legal. They know there is a variant out there that cost more than the arbitrary $150 and they have chosen NOT to revoke it. Therefore it is legal.
I really don't understand what your track is trying to accomplish. They are trying to ban a motor that cost too much? But it is perfectly OK to buy a $499 Motolyser and a $325 Magnalyser Rotor Checker and 10 Team SPEC motors $1149.90 and cherry pick the best Stators, rotors and sensor boards. Then throw in another $20+ on ceramic bearings. But I can't pay Trinity an extra $50 to do the same service (Which comes with the legal ceramic bearings) So it's really only $30
The other screwy thing is that your track would have been fine with a certified motor if they just would have not included the ceramic bearings and charged $15 less.
I never said it was my track. Besides, ROAR wrote the rule, this track is enforcing it. Also, that bold part isn't accurate. It's technically not legal because the ROAR approval list doesn't list the certified variant, it lists the base variant with the quoted part number, which has visually different components to the certified that require re-approval according to clause 8.4.2.3.

Last edited by gigaplex; 01-06-2022 at 05:17 AM.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 05:04 AM
  #32  
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Just a chuckle over all of this. There are two versions of what was originally the USGT spec fixed timing motor. One with a spec of 30 degrees of timing and another which the can still says USGT spec but it has 45 degrees of timing. The difference to visually separate them is the sensor board end plate which is red on the 45 degree motor.

Last edited by old_dude; 01-06-2022 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 05:27 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
Oh look, according to the ROAR rules, using a different colour end piece is actually illegal.

I never said it was my track. Besides, ROAR wrote the rule, this track is enforcing it. Also, that bold part isn't accurate. It's technically not legal because the ROAR approval list doesn't list the certified variant, it lists the base variant with the quoted part number, which has visually different components to the certified that require re-approval according to clause 8.4.2.3.
Is the track requiring receipts for all motor proving no one spent over 150 on any motor. Are they checking all of the of the other requirements too?

Motors may be rebuilt as follows:
  • - Fasteners may be replaced with other fasteners of similar type and size
  • - Bearings may be replaced with any bearing of the same size as originally used.
  • - Sensor assemblies, end caps, sleeves, stators may be replaced with components identical in

    construction and function to that used in the original motor approval
  • - Rotors may be replaced with any rotor approved for the motor in question. Rotors from other motors

    or which have not been approved may not be used.
Yet I can replace the end cap with what ever I want as long as it is " identical in construction and function"
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Old 01-06-2022 | 05:29 AM
  #34  
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And once again

What is the track is trying to accomplish? They are trying to ban a motor that cost too much? But it is perfectly OK to buy a $499 Motolyser and a $325 Magnalyser Rotor Checker and 10 Team SPEC motors $1149.90 and cherry pick the best Stators, rotors and sensor boards. Then throw in another $20+ on ceramic bearings. But I can't pay Trinity an extra $50 to do the same service (Which comes with the legal ceramic bearings) So it's really only $30
The other screwy thing is that the track would have been fine with a certified motor if they just would have not included the ceramic bearings, included the blue end cap charged $15 less.

Even more ridiculous is that I can buy a certified Motor. Then buy the black screw kit and buy the blue end cap and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO TELL. So I can spend $188 and have a legal motor but they ban the $165 motor.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 06:07 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001
And once again

What is the track is trying to accomplish? They are trying to ban a motor that cost too much? But it is perfectly OK to buy a $499 Motolyser and a $325 Magnalyser Rotor Checker and 10 Team SPEC motors $1149.90 and cherry pick the best Stators, rotors and sensor boards. Then throw in another $20+ on ceramic bearings. But I can't pay Trinity an extra $50 to do the same service (Which comes with the legal ceramic bearings) So it's really only $30
The other screwy thing is that the track would have been fine with a certified motor if they just would have not included the ceramic bearings, included the blue end cap charged $15 less.

Even more ridiculous is that I can buy a certified Motor. Then buy the black screw kit and buy the blue end cap and there is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY TO TELL. So I can spend $188 and have a legal motor but they ban the $165 motor.
The track is trying to follow the rule book. ROAR wrote those rules. The Australian ruleset states that the motors must conform to ROAR/BRCA/EFRA rules. The Trinity certified doesn't meet any of them, despite ROAR sanctioned events allowing them. The alloy screws and the certified endbell are not approved parts.

What is ROAR trying to accomplish by writing rules that it doesn't bother enforcing? The certified motor violates multiple clauses in the ROAR ruleset, not just the pricing rule.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 08:40 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
The track is trying to follow the rule book. ROAR wrote those rules. The Australian ruleset states that the motors must conform to ROAR/BRCA/EFRA rules. The Trinity certified doesn't meet any of them, despite ROAR sanctioned events allowing them. The alloy screws and the certified endbell are not approved parts.

What is ROAR trying to accomplish by writing rules that it doesn't bother enforcing? The certified motor violates multiple clauses in the ROAR ruleset, not just the pricing rule.
Switching the endplate and screws make it legal. Whats the point of making racers pay extra to make it legal when they are banning it for being too expensive? See the irony here?
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Old 01-06-2022 | 03:12 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by mrreet2001
Switching the endplate and screws make it legal. Whats the point of making racers pay extra to make it legal when they are banning it for being too expensive? See the irony here?
I've already explained several times why. The price cap isn't the only rule the certified breaks. 8.4.2.3 makes the end plate illegal. 8.4.2.4 makes the screws illegal.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 04:03 PM
  #38  
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Does the club check every motor for aluminum screws?
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Old 01-06-2022 | 04:07 PM
  #39  
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Guys, you are way off subject here.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 06:13 PM
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Sorry Ron I'm doing this just so this will stop. I don't have time to look up the Trinity Bell that you're referring to but a lot of these have been approved. So the deal is you can approve aftermarket parts or accessory parts and if you choose to put them on your motor the approved parts are legal. You may notice there are a ton of rotors that have been submitted as aftermarket parts for Motors and they are perfectly legal to install as long as they have been approved for that motor. Often these rotors are submitted long after the original motor approval. Beyond that as was stated before it's hard to police someone building a motor from parts versus a factory motor sold over the MSRP. And honestly this is only my opinion and not anyone else's or any organizations if you're in Australia you can make your own rules. If the situation is that problematic for you then you may want to ban the motor. Roar has enough problems without fixing the entire world's problems.
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Old 01-06-2022 | 09:24 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by robk
Sorry Ron I'm doing this just so this will stop. I don't have time to look up the Trinity Bell that you're referring to but a lot of these have been approved. So the deal is you can approve aftermarket parts or accessory parts and if you choose to put them on your motor the approved parts are legal. You may notice there are a ton of rotors that have been submitted as aftermarket parts for Motors and they are perfectly legal to install as long as they have been approved for that motor. Often these rotors are submitted long after the original motor approval. Beyond that as was stated before it's hard to police someone building a motor from parts versus a factory motor sold over the MSRP. And honestly this is only my opinion and not anyone else's or any organizations if you're in Australia you can make your own rules. If the situation is that problematic for you then you may want to ban the motor. Roar has enough problems without fixing the entire world's problems.
The Trinity parts in question are not on the approved list.
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Old 01-07-2022 | 04:31 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
The Trinity parts in question are not on the approved list.
guess the word “certified” on the end bell makes the motor lightning fast 🤦🏻‍♂️
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Old 01-07-2022 | 04:57 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
guess the word “certified” on the end bell makes the motor lightning fast 🤦🏻‍♂️
It just makes it the best of the model. Not necessarily the best motor, but it maybe. Experienced racers know the deal. The issue is really only at club levels. A bigger issue is when a club guy ventures out into the big event world with something that isn't to the "T" legal and gets burned in tech. That is why at our track we teach that to the racers. We have a core of about 20 racers and over a dozen attended the Indoor Champs. For some it was their first big event. Not a one had a issue as they had been schooled in what to expect, what to bring and what not to bring. We also host some bigger events at our Track like the Halloween Classic. Those races get full motor tech and if a esc is questionable we can tech it also. It is a pia but race integrity is important. Club days we teach.
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Old 01-07-2022 | 05:00 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Marcos.J
guess the word “certified” on the end bell makes the motor lightning fast 🤦🏻‍♂️
And yet ROAR explicitly states in the rules that colour changes require reapproval 🤷‍♂️

It doesn't matter if cosmetic changes don't affect performance. It's in the rules, the rules either need to be obeyed or they need to be rewritten.
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Old 01-07-2022 | 05:22 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by gigaplex
And yet ROAR explicitly states in the rules that colour changes require reapproval 🤷‍♂️

It doesn't matter if cosmetic changes don't affect performance. It's in the rules, the rules either need to be obeyed or they need to be rewritten.
Does the club check every motor for aluminum screws if the motor didn't come with them?
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