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-   -   Engine Mods (https://www.rctech.net/forum/onroad-nitro-engine-zone/94839-engine-mods.html)

German Muscle 09-27-2006 12:37 AM


Originally Posted by am
Edvard has helped me many times when i have asked him and he is very very good at what he is doing.

He does not wan`t to brag of what he is doing and there should be of no difference to you what he does or don`t do. There are a lot of guys out there that know consideral amount of theese engines and they do not come here and talk abaout it bacause thay are alway questioned of what they know.

i asked him nicely, he seems to know what hes talking about and thats why i asked, i fugured he was apart of Axial and was curious. It shows that he truly knows what he is doing and has expeirience to back what he is talking about instead of reading magazines and on the internet.

EdwardN 09-27-2006 07:29 AM


Originally Posted by German Muscle
i asked him nicely, he seems to know what hes talking about and thats why i asked, i fugured he was apart of Axial and was curious. It shows that he truly knows what he is doing and has expeirience to back what he is talking about instead of reading magazines and on the internet.

Yes I work for Axial for last 6 month. I think I learn something about Nitro engines for last 30 years, not everything, but some portion of it.

Tabushi 09-27-2006 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by EdwardN
Yes I work for Axial for last 6 month. I think I learn something about Nitro engines for last 30 years, not everything, but some portion of it.



EduardN,


Any chance for axial to release a .18 rear exhaust (standrd and sg shaft) engine for the MT class ? (not big blocks as Axial have) ?


thanks !

speedygonzalez 09-27-2006 10:07 AM

axial
 
Hey how did the Axials do at the worlds...
I saw Atomic was out there...

EdwardN 09-27-2006 10:30 AM


Originally Posted by speedygonzalez
Hey how did the Axials do at the worlds...
I saw Atomic was out there...

Axial didn't attend the worlds.

EdwardN 09-27-2006 10:40 AM

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Originally Posted by Tabushi
EduardN,


Any chance for axial to release a .18 rear exhaust (standrd and sg shaft) engine for the MT class ? (not big blocks as Axial have) ?


thanks !

Hi Tabushi. It is highely possible. I am really sorry, but this only info I can give you now.
We will release our glow plugs very soon, may be 1-2 weeks-Turbo and standart.

mugenb46 09-27-2006 05:42 PM

ED, glad to see you back on. YGPM

German Muscle 09-28-2006 01:30 AM


Originally Posted by EdwardN
Yes I work for Axial for last 6 month. I think I learn something about Nitro engines for last 30 years, not everything, but some portion of it.

Awesome, its grea to have ppl like you here and active on a forum. I also think its great of you to share info with ppl. Havent seen many ppl at other big motor manufacters do things like this. I was just citing what Brian Kinney had told my engine modifyer. I know you and brian are very good friends and think you all are about to release some stuff hes designed?

EdwardN 09-28-2006 08:35 AM


Originally Posted by German Muscle
Awesome, its grea to have ppl like you here and active on a forum. I also think its great of you to share info with ppl. Havent seen many ppl at other big motor manufacters do things like this. I was just citing what Brian Kinney had told my engine modifyer. I know you and brian are very good friends and think you all are about to release some stuff hes designed?

I try to help to everybody who really interested and I feel it as my small mission to the people. Well most of the info is not really secret and it should be available to the racers. Some info is secret and that one anyway not really usefull for general racers (just for instance piston material chemistry and manufacturing technology etc) Most of the secret can't be regenerated without knowing original proccess.
About balancing-yes it is impossible to make perfect balancing for 2 strock engines, but as I stated before there is availability to make it way better. So just to keep in mind statment that is impossible and don't try to improve will not help. The whole idea is move forward, try, make mistake, learn and final result-improment-will be go on. Never give up!!!!

Colt4g63 09-28-2006 10:12 AM

Id like to try and balance one of my modded engines to see if theres any real gains. Ive been modding engines for awhile now and I havent had ANY issues with not doin any kind of balance on them. No pre worn rods, bearings, glow plug elements failing ect. But I guess it couldnt hurt to try.. But I honestly dunno if its worth the extra time and effort to be honest. I guess ill have to see :)

What gets me is other modders that try to tell these guys they fully balance the cranks. And for us that actually know this isnt possible it gets annoying... I think thats where German was coming from with his original posts about it. I honestly dont think he ment to argue. my .02

EdwardN 09-28-2006 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by Colt4g63
Id like to try and balance one of my modded engines to see if theres any real gains. Ive been modding engines for awhile now and I havent had ANY issues with not doin any kind of balance on them. No pre worn rods, bearings, glow plug elements failing ect. But I guess it couldnt hurt to try.. But I honestly dunno if its worth the extra time and effort to be honest. I guess ill have to see :)

What gets me is other modders that try to tell these guys they fully balance the cranks. And for us that actually know this isnt possible it gets annoying... I think thats where German was coming from with his original posts about it. I honestly dont think he ment to argue. my .02

I agree with you on every single sentance you put. I don't want to talk about what moddifyers are telling to people-this is not my field. ;)
Try and learn is always worth in my opinion. If you don't try you never learn.
I don't want to tell you what to do or teach you , I am just suggesting-never stop trying!!!!! :nod:
German Miscle didn't try to argue here and I never take it as argument. He just wanted to know, because what I sad was different from what he heard before-I don't see anything wrong with that. I tryed to expalne how we do balancing-then it is up to every racer to decide if he is taking it or not.

mugenb46 09-28-2006 07:16 PM

Ed, your the man :sneaky:

mugenb46 10-09-2006 07:07 PM

warmac, whats up man ! :sneaky:

afm 10-10-2006 08:43 AM

For anyone starting to do mods, here is a nice article step by step on a mod work to a .25 HPi engine, which is very ilustrtive and can help better understand the why's and what's of engine modding

http://www.rccaraction.com/articles/htpporting_1.asp

Hope it helps
AFM

Warmac 10-10-2006 08:51 AM


Originally Posted by mugenb46
warmac, whats up man ! :sneaky:

still here mugenb46, just been under a lot of work pressure lately :cry:


Edward and Colt, you guys said it, if you don't try you wont get anywhere. Even if you fail, at least you would understand the process better.

Who knows, you might use that failure to devise a different method that may eventually work.

mugenb46 10-10-2006 03:34 PM

Warmac i feel your pain brother, well i got 2 novarossi m style motors today that i sold to a guy when i got rid of my old GT and i didn't mod them, i'm going to have some fun :nod: one is a mt12 with a threaded crank and the other is a sg MR12 i think, i'm going to leave the mt12 alone it is my indoor motor and i will mod the other for dirt oval, i will post pics when it is done. i miss my P5.21 that thing was a monster. talk at you all later. :sneaky:

Warmac 10-13-2006 12:29 PM

looking forward to se those pics...good luck with the project

Davidka 10-16-2006 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by afm
For anyone starting to do mods, here is a nice article step by step on a mod work to a .25 HPi engine, which is very ilustrtive and can help better understand the why's and what's of engine modding

http://www.rccaraction.com/articles/htpporting_1.asp

Hope it helps
AFM


I wish they would continue this series. I would love an instruction article like this for the OS RG .21 and some of the other commomly used budget engines.

mugenb46 10-18-2006 05:11 PM

ed this is just for you, i have a COMO S .40 plane motor that i want to modify, i understand that plane motors run more for torque and not rpm. any tips on how to hop it up a little, and wow this crank sure looks a little different. :sneaky:

EdwardN 10-18-2006 06:27 PM


Originally Posted by mugenb46
ed this is just for you, i have a COMO S .40 plane motor that i want to modify, i understand that plane motors run more for torque and not rpm. any tips on how to hop it up a little, and wow this crank sure looks a little different. :sneaky:

Hi Mugenb.
Not neccessarely planes motors are torque and not RPM. It is depend of aplication-for airbatic you realy want to torq and you don't want to engine start winding up, for Pilon racing-they want to have winding engine.
Please send me pics of our crank and sleeve, I might be able to suggest something by looking on the pics. You can post them here as well, I hope nobody will be affended by those pics :sneaky: . I am not familiar with COMO S 40 motor, will look on the net, may be can find some info on them. But pics defenetly will be helpfull.

EdwardN 10-18-2006 06:51 PM

No much info I can find on this engine, I just found is was made by Super Tigre long time ago. Usualy they were 2 ports design and they were very unoficient engines, but in the mean time they were work horses and one of the best on its time. So to suggest you something, I defenetly will need pics-I had only one engine Super Tigre G15 and it was in 1977, I berely remember that engine, I do remmeber I used for while on control line speed with side exhaust mounted tuned pipe, I don't remmebr where I get it from and what happened with that. :D :D

mugenb46 10-18-2006 07:15 PM

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mugenb46 10-18-2006 07:48 PM

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:sneaky:

mugenb46 10-18-2006 08:03 PM

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:sneaky:

mugenb46 10-18-2006 08:13 PM

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SORRY I'M not to good at posting pics yet. this is a itailan motor i don't know if thunder tiger is a itialan company. it is side exausti it has one boost port and two fuel ports and the exaust port. it is a old wore out motor but the guy just gave it to me and said here you can have it show me what kind if work you can do. i told him i do car motors but have never done a plane motor. he just wanted to see how steady of a hand i have. he has some customers that want some mod work done to their car motors. but i would like to mod this and make it run again to see how the mods work, he sells alot of planes out of his hobby shop. thanks for the info in advance. MUGENB46 :sneaky:

mugenb46 10-18-2006 08:18 PM

the full face on the crank is interesting, i'm sure ther is a good reason for this but i don't understand the thought behind this type of design, :confused: but it is not filled in behind as you can see

gtrmx 10-18-2006 11:28 PM


Originally Posted by EdwardN
Get the weight of piston, conrod, wrist pin, G-clips take about 51% (make bobe out of heavy materila lead or something) attached to cranck and follow the rest from Nitrodude balancing procedure and if you will be able to go as close as possible-then you will be right on the money.

Hi EdwardN!!

May I ask why 51% of the weight and not 50% or even 100%?

It is hard for me to picture that in my mind! It would occur to me that the counterweight should balance the whole weight of piston, rod, wrist pin and g-clips, wouldn't it?

Isn't it like the whole weight of the piston/rod assembly is permanently attached to the crank pin, like the lead sleeve on the pin (bob), and thus we should account for 100%?

Also, if I decide to cut the crankshaft, then that means I must remove weight from the piston or rod accordingly? I imagine that is why EB Mods cuts the rods as well.

Thanks!

German Muscle 10-19-2006 12:49 AM

colt has ported a few airplane motors. maybe he could be of some help, i and i doubt he has seen a motor like that.

EdwardN 10-19-2006 10:54 AM

4 Attachment(s)

Originally Posted by gtrmx
Hi EdwardN!!

May I ask why 51% of the weight and not 50% or even 100%?

It is hard for me to picture that in my mind! It would occur to me that the counterweight should balance the whole weight of piston, rod, wrist pin and g-clips, wouldn't it?

Isn't it like the whole weight of the piston/rod assembly is permanently attached to the crank pin, like the lead sleeve on the pin (bob), and thus we should account for 100%?

Also, if I decide to cut the crankshaft, then that means I must remove weight from the piston or rod accordingly? I imagine that is why EB Mods cuts the rods as well.

Thanks!

Sure you can ask any quetions-this is why we came here in forum to learn, share etc.
Number 51% came from many years of trials and it is our numbers, it doesn't mean everybody use the same numbers. It is target number but not always can be easy reach.
BTW, try to make 100%-you won't be able to do that, regardless how much tungsten you will put there. It is doesn't metter how much you can lightening piston assembly-you can go just to reasonble limit where parts will be strong enough to don't brake under the load while motor is running 40+ K RPM. Ones you will make them srong enough they will have some weight.
One of the reason why in air models (there is space to do it) some people try and do carb on opposite side, but we don't have that luxery. Tehere is way to make better way to do balancing-use rear induction-you can locate induction position that it will help achive best balancing with minimum unbalanced rotating mass ( way lesss then we use front induction), but again it is depend of aplication-some place is possible, some not. Please see the pics of samples.
Balancing is whole hell of controversial ideas and theories and people stick with something they find work better for them.
BTW, look the pic of sleeve-it is art of work!!!! :nod: :nod: :nod:

EdwardN 10-19-2006 11:11 AM

Hi MugenB.
That one is really old motor-that balancing on cranck was popular because on that time idea was that cuts which we have now on cranck will increase case volume, so everybody was making those cuts and some times even put sleeve over it to cover cuts. But later it was proven that web regardless the shape at rotating in our RPM is concidered as full round body, so after it was proven, everybody switched to DELTA type ( or alomost everybody :sneaky: ).
As far as engine-pics are really not focused, but for sure what I will do is make the cuts which going from transfer ports to booster-it will be firstTo make sure mixture passage is good to all ports, second I will do is to make chamfer on induction hole ( or you can make turbo scoop). Will make sure that booster angle is at list 45 degrees.
Try to make please more focused pics of the side of sleeve where we can see transfer ports and booster.

gtrmx 10-19-2006 12:06 PM


Originally Posted by EdwardN
Sure you can ask any quetions-this is why we came here in forum to learn, share etc.
Number 51% came from many years of trials and it is our numbers, it doesn't mean everybody use the same numbers. It is target number but not always can be easy reach.
BTW, try to make 100%-you won't be able to do that, regardless how much tungsten you will put there. It is doesn't metter how much you can lightening piston assembly-you can go just to reasonble limit where parts will be strong enough to don't brake under the load while motor is running 40+ K RPM. Ones you will make them srong enough they will have some weight.
One of the reason why in air models (there is space to do it) some people try and do carb on opposite side, but we don't have that luxery. Tehere is way to make better way to do balancing-use rear induction-you can locate induction position that it will help achive best balancing with minimum unbalanced rotating mass ( way lesss then we use front induction), but again it is depend of aplication-some place is possible, some not. Please see the pics of samples.
Balancing is whole hell of controversial ideas and theories and people stick with something they find work better for them.
BTW, look the pic of sleeve-it is art of work!!!! :nod: :nod: :nod:

Thanks for taking the time to answer this kind of question.

Not many people out there are willing to share this much good info!!

EdwardN 10-19-2006 12:54 PM


Originally Posted by gtrmx
Thanks for taking the time to answer this kind of question.

Not many people out there are willing to share this much good info!!

You are very welcome.
It is not secret info at all-it is very well know facts in engine design world. I am not sure why people is hiding this kind of info from the community ( if they have this info), I don't see problem to help people to understand as much as possible on nitro engines.
But please understand me right-all info which I am sharing here is info which I presonaly with my firends got over the years, it doesn't mean it is mother nature laws, it just what we have learn. Some of the info is not supported by any mechanical, thermodynamical, flow etc rulls or laws, it was collected over the years and found that is the best fit. Some times we even so leasy to go and try to match some scintific development to the findings. Just found and used. :nod: :nod: :nod:

mugenb46 10-19-2006 04:32 PM

ED, i just had a guy tell me that when you reduce head clearence that it will increase power and also reduce engine temp. is this accurate. in my experence it has increased temp. go to the head clearence post and see what i'm talking about please. :sneaky:

mugenb46 10-31-2006 08:57 PM

ED,German,Colt
can you tell me what size degree wheel i should use on my engines, does it matter, i would think so. just not sure. Thanks :sneaky:

EdwardN 10-31-2006 09:39 PM


Originally Posted by mugenb46
ED,German,Colt
can you tell me what size degree wheel i should use on my engines, does it matter, i would think so. just not sure. Thanks :sneaky:

I am using this protractor http://quintgraphics.net/cart/index....2b8fdb138e119d, you can easy get from Home Depot or most hardware store. I love it because it is not 360 degrees, it is 2 X180.
It is really doesn't metter the size as long as it is handy for you to use.

Colt4g63 10-31-2006 10:05 PM

What Ed posted would work just fine. And also very cheap and easy to get ahold of. :)

mugenb46 11-01-2006 04:45 PM

sorry but that link shows 2. is it the round one or the long one, and why wouldn't you not want one that is 360 compared to 180. why is that better for you thanks :sneaky: ed i know that boost port angles and induction angles are very important to know for the sleeve along with boost port passege angles and fuel port paseg angles in the cace of the motor. what too do i need to check those.


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