Picco TORQUE versus Novarossi topic
 

I know that there's a topic about the two different engines thus far but I am in awe of what a top engine modifier has told me about the Picco Torque engines being ALOT stronger than the Novarossi 35 Plus 21 AND the Kangaroo engines with every engine modified:eek:. Well, needless to say I now own a brand new Picco EDO/MMM modified TORQUE .21 to compare against an arsenal of Kangaroo engines that I already have. These kangaroos have been very quick and fast and even set both ends of the IMDRA ET and Speed records so the Picco has some work to do. I am mostly interested in the ballistic bottom end and mid-range HP/TQ that everybody is ranting and raving about from the Picco. Still in the break-in process so far and it already impresses just with the ease of starting, responding to the needles easily and is already almost broken in soooooo much easier than a Novarossi engine thus far.

What I'd like to know is from other Novarossi engine owners that also now have the Picco TQ engines, what are your honest experiences between the two engines as far as powerwise, speed, lap times, top end speeds or whatever gauge you can give? This goes for the Picco TQ .12 engine owners as well. So far the general concensus is that I just may be selling a whole lot of Kangaroos and switching out to Picco TORQUE motors.:nod:

i heard the same, that Piccos have great torque. I am curious to know exactly why this is? Is it a case of different timming, or is it something else?, for example the construction of the sleeve material or design? i always noticed that the Piccos have a thicker top ring section on the sleeve, i wonder if this is part of the extra torque. ie the sleeve doesn't expand as much at peak temps so the compression is higher and therefore the torque is better?

Crankshaft opening and intake are different (much larger) than Novarossi.

See the many Novarossi models and the one Picco:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/tooms/timings/timings.jpg

This is one of the much noticable things that I saw off the bat as well. I sure hope it does everything that people have been saying it does so far. I like to try new engines and be a little different at times.

Roelof, you have one of the TQ .21's right? What have you noticed performance wise between the Picco and Novarossi's? Good....Bad....the same.....can't tell?

The torque of the new picco is absolutely insane. the only thing I observed the driver had to blip the throttle about 2/3's down the back straight because the engine ran out of legs. It could have been geared wrong.

I use to run picco's but I had a hard time sourcing plugs for piccos. Will the new piccos except a nova style plug?



Pass you soon...

No, I do not have one, I fixed one for someone so I could messure some things up.

In the Dutch nationals the Torque engines are fast. Steven Cuypers running a Picco powered MRX5 can outperform RickV with a Flash powered MRX5. Ilia van Gastel was also very fast running a Mega, although the Mega is still with the DS4 it would not suprise me if he was running a Torque setup.

On the other hand there was one guy who could not get the engines right and had excanged them again for Novarossi. I know a lot of things were tryed. As he did bought 3 of them at the same time I asume there could be a bad production serie as well.

I would not advise Nova plugs. Picco plugs aren't too hard to find but even better are IDM and Sirio plugs. Jerry at Shepherd America/XS Power should have the IDMs.

well, I was wondering about the plugs myself and really like the O'Donnell 77T plug. I hope that this plug will not hurt the head though.

Roelof, I understand. Heck there's plenty of people that have the 35 plus's and Kangaroos and still can't get them to run right so I guess it's a catch 22. Well, I'll see how this engine runs on my next drag race outting and hopefully with the more aggressive timing in this motor, it will make more HP all the way thru to the other end.

Wingracers, you got one?

I use the O donnel 77t's and 97t's. I like the Odonnel plugs better than The nova plugs better price and last longer.


Pass you soon...

ODs work but IDM or Sirio are crisper, easier to tune and last MUCH longer.

What are IDM's and where can you get them? When you say crispier, is that just on the bottom end snap or does the plug supply a little more HP throughout the entire RPM range? What are IDM part numbers in relations to a 77T plug?

I always thought the OD plugs where more for nova based engines and the IDM and Sirio plugs were picco based

Actually IDM and Sirio plugs are made by LM, the same company that makes Sirio, Werks, Orion, Invision, etc. engines. IMO, they are the best plugs on the market today, period. Though they are not made for Piccos, they work perfectly in them. That's why IDM engines are Picco based but the plugs are LM. As I said earlier, the IDM versions should be available from Jerry at Shepherd America/XS power, he is the IDM importer.

An od 77t is a hot offroad plug so you could probably use something like a Werks or Orion 5 or 6, readily available from Amain and many other places. I think even Ashford may have them now.

His website is still a little thin but you can email him.
[email protected]

On hot humid days I use the OD 77t's. My normal plug is the OD 97t's. I only run 16% nitro in 200mm sedan.

We use Merlin plugs: http://merlinglowplugs.com/

Good plugs@

Picco Torque USA Distributor
 

Hi Brent

I am the Picco USA distributor for Torque line engines.

You can find us at www.kevcoracing.com or email me at [email protected]


Kevin Hutchinson

Thanks Kevin.

What have your drivers reported thus far on this engine compared to the Novarossi engines?

Wingracer, who makes the Nosram. LRP plugs, are they any good??

NOPE!
Trust me, you don't want to use them...

I am not 100% sure but 99%, that that the Picco plugas are also LM.
Visually, there's no difference.

but od 77T packing was printed for 1/10:confused:

Their chart says .12-.28 med hot. Since TC motors like a bit hotter plug than a .21, it would probably work well for 1/10th.

Talking about off the shelf engines, I think Picco has made a huge improvement in the last couple of years, but it still a hit and miss. From time to time you find a really good engine, that has the perfect fit and last a long time, but with Novarossi you always have same quality and performance.

Novarossi is still #1 in quality and consistency in my opinion

Well i don't think you can judge only by what is going on in Holland. In USA they haven't won any major race in a long time.

In Italy, the RC Mecca, Novarossi is always dominating.

the driver also play a very important part in a race,if i'm not mistaken:D

True that Picco hasn'd been always reliable and consistence which is still affecting their bussiness today. But from what I have seen with Novarossi in the last years it seems they are going backwards with the qiality.

With big names like RickV, Robin d'Hondt, Olia v. Gastel, Steven Cuypers, John Ermen who have proven theirself very well on international level we do have a good strong field.

Agreed. Not saying Nova is bad, they are still great but they have slid back to the rest of the field recently while others seem to be improving.

:nod:

Picco plugs are made by Picco. They are not LM. The difference is the filiment has 6 turns not 5 turns also the body is not marked on the Picco plug as with all others. The Picco plug though is getting better.

Jerry

Wingracer, are you currently still running your Picco TQ engine?

I ran it at the nats, it was fantastic. Nitro season is over now though :(

I just measured our Torque Edo (2 of them) and both cranks open at 28 ° and close at 35°

Was this in a MRX5? How do you compare the bottom end/mid range power to your 35plus21 engines? I mean is it really that much more noticeable from what I have heard? I'm liking this engine on the bench right now and hope it will definately turn some heads.

I took mine apart and noticed that the rod is definately longer than the R7 rods used in the 35 plus and Kangaroos as well which in turn will help produce more bottom end power as well.

Stefan, this will allow more fuel to enter into the engine sooner but also closes later than the Kangaroo cranks which should in turn produce more HP.

Stefan, how do you like the Picco TQ engine?

No, Shepherd (though a Mugen clutch).

My 35+21 felt like it might have had a bit more in the middle range but the Picco felt better on the bottom and oddly on the top as well. At least until I tried my old standby 9886 pipe on it which seemed to make the top fall flat for some reason so I went back to the 2013.

Was the Picco fairly easy on the tune up as well? Was this feel from the 35 plus to the Picco with same gearing and such for a fair comparison?

Kevin, thanks for the link. I saw where you offer the rods for replacement for the .21 TQ engine. I want to know what is the difference between a standard rod and the modified version rod that is listed on the site? Also are crankshafts available for this engine as well?

Yes, same gearing and clutch set-up.

Motor was very easy to tune and held it all through the week. No flameouts except for the couple times I ran it out of fuel. No detonation and no destroyed plugs.

PERFECT! Thanks for your input and data. It encourages my decision even more to know that you do like it.

Hi Brent, I know about the timing. Roelof has posted engine timing a bit further down. where the Torque is listed with 30 -70 = 220° crank timing, which looked strange, especially in light of the awesome fuel consumption of these engines.
So I measured mine, and the are different.

I love the Torques, aside from some bearing problems we had early in the year.
It seems that it was only one of the very early batches (January -February) because later engines didn't have that problem.

The thing you need to get used to is the very low compression these engines seem to have when they are cold.
Some guys wanted to trash them, despite they were running awesome.
Just old Nova habits :nod:

The Torque has a different piston material that seems to expand when the engine gets to operating temps and then works great.
Very easy to break in and easy on the rods.