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Old 12-17-2003, 06:19 PM   #1
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Unhappy RS5 Killed 5 of my plugs

Dino,

in the past two weeks, my RS5 had killed 4 of my turbo plugs. Just yesterday it killed my last turbo plug. I think the .3mm shims you suggested are too much pressure for my plugs to handle.

The piston and button looks rough satin finish like.

My engine is now dead . The last plug lost its filliment inside jamming the piston and my piston is no longer useable.

I need to replace the piston, sleeve, and rod. Would you be able to get me some parts.

I want to replace it with a RS3 piston, sleeve, and rod. Do you know if it will fit or do I have to get the RS5 set.?

Do you know if the RS5 piston and sleeve set on calandra comes with a rod too? I can't find the rod by it self on the list of parts.

I am bummed that my experience with STS engines didn't turn out like I wanted it too.

...Slammed
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Old 12-17-2003, 06:35 PM   #2
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Default Re: RS5 Killed 5 of my plugs

when the engine toasted up the first or second plug, you should stop putting new plugs in but to find out the problem first.....

If the pitted piston and button not very serious,you can polish it.All STS .12 parts are interchangable. And P/S set is not including conrod.
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Old 12-17-2003, 08:45 PM   #3
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Default Re: RS5 Killed 5 of my plugs

Quote:
Originally posted by Slammed
The piston and button looks rough satin finish like.
I have experienced this on my RS3 before. Check the conrod bushing up on the piston side and at the bottom on the cranshaft side. My guess is that the debris from the bushing busted the plugs. I too changed the plugs not knowing that it will destroy any plug you feed it. Are the plugs distorted and dirty with fine debris? This debris are also responsible for the button head and piston head pitting.
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:35 AM   #4
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When a engine starts to kill plugs, better to stop check all the things on this checklist:

- Is the conrod in good shape (nothing slope on the big end or small end). Check the crank pin. Dino may post the measurements regarding crank pin.

- If the crank pin is ovalized, stop using it, will kill all the conrods you put on this engine, and change the crank or buy a new engine (sounds rare, but sometimes can happen).

- If piston and plug button is pitted, you're run your engine with a very small chamber for your nitro percentage. This can be too the cause you kill so much plugs. Looks the filament distorted? check your carb adjustment, probably you're going too lean.

- Regarding plugs... which kind you're using (number and type of body) along your nitro percentage. Looks the filament distorted and pushed into the cavity of the plug? (excessive compression) or looks pulled out the cavity (excessive scavenging - your engine may be putting serious power then).
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:42 AM   #5
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Default Killer RS5

Course-R,

Thanks for the info. I will go through your list and inspect.

The past 4 plugs did look distroted and pushed in. The last one was missing.

I tried three duratrax #7 medium, one #8 cold, and one rossi #5 medium. The rossi one is that fell apart. All are short type.

I am using the blue thunder 20% racing fuel.

According to the paper that came with the engine. You can use .4mm +/- .1mm. I used .3mm as suggested.

I measured the shimms off the engine. It was .35mm. I figured that when mounted, it would compress to .3mm. Maybe I should have measured it while the shimms are compressed by the head. This will give me a more accurate measurement.

Initial D,

The bushing on the top is missing. The bushing on the bottom is still there. The rod on the top is cracked. some of the piston skirt is cracked off.

Do you think the bushing did more damage than the filliment?

I need to re-evaluate to repair or purchase a new one.
I need to learn what went wrong. So this doesn't happen again.

Was it the bushing that caused it to fail or my shimm measurement or combanation of both? If it was the bushing, you would think it would be covered by waranty.

I don't think there is a waranty on this engine. I didn't see it. I only had it for two months.

Dino, can you please check on this?

I can post pictures if anybody wants.

Thanks all for your help.
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:50 AM   #6
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Default Re: Killer RS5

Quote:
Originally posted by Slammed
Course-R,

Thanks for the info. I will go through your list and inspect.

The past 4 plugs did look distroted and pushed in. The last one was missing.

I tried three duratrax #7 medium, one #8 cold, and one rossi #5 medium. The rossi one is that fell apart. All are short type.

I am using the blue thunder 20% racing fuel.

According to the paper that came with the engine. You can use .4mm +/- .1mm. I used .3mm as suggested.

I measured the shimms off the engine. It was .35mm. I figured that when mounted, it would compress to .3mm. Maybe I should have measured it while the shimms are compressed by the head. This will give me a more accurate measurement.

Initial D,

The bushing on the top is missing. The bushing on the bottom is still there. The rod on the top is cracked. some of the piston skirt is cracked off.

Do you think the bushing did more damage than the filliment?

I need to re-evaluate to repair or purchase a new one.
I need to learn what went wrong. So this doesn't happen again.

Was it the bushing that caused it to fail or my shimm measurement or combanation of both? If it was the bushing, you would think it would be covered by waranty.

I don't think there is a waranty on this engine. I didn't see it. I only had it for two months.

Dino, can you please check on this?

I can post pictures if anybody wants.

Thanks all for your help.
If a plug filament drops in the engine it will destroy it.As was said it could have had too much compression,maybe the plug you were using had too long of a reach or that you didn't have enough shims.

Post some pics if you can.
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Old 12-18-2003, 09:52 AM   #7
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Default Re: Re: Killer RS5

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Old 12-18-2003, 11:19 AM   #8
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EVOLUTION,

Thanks for your insight.

It is a turbo engine. There is a taper at the end. I don't think long reach is the problem.

...Slammed
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Old 12-18-2003, 11:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Slammed
EVOLUTION,

Thanks for your insight.

It is a turbo engine. There is a taper at the end. I don't think long reach is the problem.

...Slammed
Woops,I was reading turbo plug and visualising something else(standard).Can I change my opinion to a more general,wrong plug/head shimming which might have equaled too much compression?

Last edited by EVOLUTION; 12-18-2003 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:12 PM   #10
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Old 12-18-2003, 12:19 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Top Gun 777
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Old 12-18-2003, 01:06 PM   #12
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Evolution,

My head shimming most likely caused the plugs to push in and die for too much compression.
The lost filliment most likely caused the pitting on my piston and button.
What caused the bushing at the top of the rod to fall off?
What caused damaged to the piston skirt?


...Slammed
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Old 12-18-2003, 03:06 PM   #13
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Regarding broken bushing,most of this case is caused by the not proper break-in process. When the sleeve and piston still new,it's very tight. It will make the rod to take very big stress during breaking in. And make the bushing worn fast even break.

And as you know that there are too many different break-in ways wide-spreading around us. Some people say 10 tanks is engough,and some people say he need 2L of fuel to break-in his engine. Someone say just use 30% to break-in,someone say use 5% is best? Everyone think he is expert already and give strong suggestion to others on the net. But no one know who is right! There are too many information around us which may wrong. I don't know how you will treat your engine,that's why I usual suggest people to replace the conrod after break-in. It dosen't mean the conrod is not strong enough.

Some person ever ask me,why not make the P/S set not so tight?
Good question! I have tried,but people say this P/S set has fault. And this kind of P/S set will easy to lose compression if over-heat. Till now,people will use Nova's products as standard to judge other manufactory. That's why we have to use the same standard to produce engine.

You must treat your engine with care. Any high performance racing engine can turn at close to 40,000 rpm.(666 times up-down / each second ) Any failure at such a high rpm can cause damage and exemplifies why you need to regularly maintain your engine. And if there is a play,just replace with new parts. Of course we can produce a super lasting engine such as STS12,but we have to limit the max-rpm. You will not like it anymore. Want Ferrari or TOYOTA?

So,I usual suggest every racers that you need at least two engines. One for race another for practice. When one engine can't work proper,just replace with another fine engine. When you back home or have free time,take it apart to see if there is any worn part. Don't guess it is tuning problem only,and try to restart is again and again. It will make the engine damaged more serious.

A real fault engine will be damaged on the first tank. If you can run it for a while,that's mean the QC is ok. Please understand that all moving parts inside the engine are subject to wear, and that if a piston/liner has worn out then likely the end/con-rod has also worn. When these parts are eventually in need of replacement, they are readily available and have a big play. If an engine has been broken, check to see if all of the other moving parts are still in good shape. If you only replace one part and leave other worn parts in place, it is possible that you will soon have another failure. That's why many expert will suggest newbie not to repair your engine just buy new one. Because they never know if there is any other worn part in your engine.

By the way,fuel is another problem. There are too many different brands of fuels around us. I suggest customers on the Instruction Manual that ...The choice of fuel is very important, it should contain a minimum of 10% castor and/or synthetic oil. Regarding the percentage of nitro: more nitro content (higher %) will provide more explosive force and more horsepower from your engine, but it will also shorten the engine?fs life. For average use we recommend 15~25% nitro fuels.

A CHAMPION fuel may not good for everyone. Some fuel only has 8% lubrication even less. Yes,it may make your engine more fast but also wearing fast. So before you choice fuel,you have to know what you want? Faster or lasting?

Above suggestion is writed to all buddies here,sorry for my poor english...
Sincerely,

Last edited by dino.tw; 12-18-2003 at 03:54 PM.
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:27 PM   #14
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Dino,

Thanks for that reminder.

I am not a newibe to this sport. I have been nitro racing for over 6 years. I have always used O.S. engines though. I thought its time for me to graduate to someting faster. The other racers were using high rpm engines and leaving me in their exhaust with my O.S. engine. This is my first 40k rpm engine.
Before selecting a brand, I did think about lasting vs. speed. I wanted to beat the other racer like any other racer would.

I felt I broke in the engine fine. I used 14 tanks and kept the temperture down. Two minutes on two minutes off as the instruction said too.

What I didn't find on the instruction was rating of turbo plug. I have been using medium to cold until you told me to use hot.

If the break-in process requires you to change the rod after, should it be in the instructions?

I am not trying to flame you Dino because my engine died. You are a godsend to use STS users here. Lessons learned and I want to move on.

I do plan to replace the P+S and rod and start all over.
I want to try again, there are somethings that wished I did over.

There must be a better way to measure shimms. If you know a method, please share with us. The lead method, I am weary about sticking any thing in the chamber.

...Slammed
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Old 12-18-2003, 04:45 PM   #15
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After reading Dino comment, just only can say AMEN! Many people, including myself have broken in their engines in several forms and he picks what he makes more confidence.

Firstly I used the 4 stroking method at full throttle, but a comment from a metallurgic engineer friend of mine make me think about the way I broke-in mine engines. They lack of proper heat and metal needs to get tempered and the correct clearances.

Experimented with other break-in methods and lastly I readed the booklet that came with my own engines, found that engines to run properly needs to have their own operating temperature, tested the idling method and after going to the track very rich and found better results than in the past.

Everything in this hobby is a way of experimentation and evolution. What seems logical today, probably tomorrow is outdated or simply a nonsense. Like says the slogan of one good scotch whiskey: Keep walking.
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