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Old 06-27-2006, 01:47 PM   #526
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M7H - I think the term better used would be pessimist... Seems that you never have anything positive or constructive to say.... Just my .02...

The G4 can be geared much higher than any other TC on the market but they can not gear the car low enough for this engine. Changing the brake pulley will help a bunch I am sure - Also, don't forget to adjust the side pulley ratio so your over-drive will be correct.

I have tested this engine now on 3 tracks - CRF, Toledo and Crystal Park - CRF is quite small and we did use very small gearing. Toledo and Crystal Park I used the exact same gear ratios from one track to the other. We did test with different gearing but we still yeilded the best performance with 7.38 first gear and 5.09 second gear - This would be the largest (most top speed) gearing I would run on this engine for any track over 200ft length.
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Old 06-27-2006, 02:10 PM   #527
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Got the side & brake pulleys on order
If the UK importer (CML) has them in stock then I should get them by Friday.
I have also ordered a JP just in case the pulleys don't arrive.

I still have my older FW05 which is to be run with a (Serpent) Truck shell on, I can gear this car much lower so could put the motor in that if I cannot gear the G4S low enough, so all is not lost.
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Old 06-27-2006, 03:13 PM   #528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
The G4 can be geared much higher than any other TC on the market but they can not gear the car low enough for this engine. Changing the brake pulley will help a bunch I am sure - Also, don't forget to adjust the side pulley ratio so your over-drive will be correct.
With the 18T brake pulley and 18T rear side pulley, the G4's internal drive ratio goes to 2.667 and can be geared as short as this:

18 - 52 = 7.704 in 1st speed
23 - 47 = 5.449 in second speed

I think that is short enough for a very very tight track, and can make the CRF rev very high

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Old 06-27-2006, 03:18 PM   #529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afm
With the 18T brake pulley and 18T rear side pulley, the G4's internal drive ratio goes to 2.667 and can be geared as short as this:

18 - 52 = 7.704 in 1st speed
23 - 47 = 5.449 in second speed

I think that is short enough for a very very tight track, and can make the CRF rev very high

AFM
That's lower than Josh and the RRR, it's what I need for my local track
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:03 PM   #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
M7H - I think the term better used would be pessimist...
Or maybe realistic...
It's not me who came with quotes about comparing this engine with that $$$ italian mills...

BUT, again, I can not at all say much, simply because I never ever seen 1 running.

On several questions I asked about wether or not this engine would compete on the EC, I did not get any answer....
And it is an European product, or not?
from the team orion webpage:
Quote:
The Team Orion WASP Rev CRF Engines are developed in Switzerland and manufactured in Japan, this is a state-of-the-art engine for serious racing applications.
But ok, as you asked this is something constructive I think.

As can be read in this thread, the engine is a bit "hard" to handle, because it needs quite a lot of testing to find the exact proper set-up, lets call the "sweet spot" of this engine "small"
Also you get 6 needles for your carb. (right?) which probably is needed to tune the engine correct for the track you need it for, together with a "slippery" clutch which will wear more and even might not finish an final of an hour, gives me the idea that this engine just might not be the choice of many.....
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:12 PM   #531
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
Or maybe realistic...
It's not me who came with quotes about comparing this engine with that $$$ italian mills...

BUT, again, I can not at all say much, simply because I never ever seen 1 running.

On several questions I asked about wether or not this engine would compete on the EC, I did not get any answer....
And it is an European product, or not?
from the team orion webpage:


But ok, as you asked this is something constructive I think.

As can be read in this thread, the engine is a bit "hard" to handle, because it needs quite a lot of testing to find the exact proper set-up, lets call the "sweet spot" of this engine "small"
Also you get 6 needles for your carb. (right?) which probably is needed to tune the engine correct for the track you need it for, together with a "slippery" clutch which will wear more and even might not finish an final of an hour, gives me the idea that this engine just might not be the choice of many.....
Ok fine, dont buy one. They are crap and Megas are the best Blah blah blah . Now would you piss of out of this thread and fill the Mega thread with your dribble??
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:17 PM   #532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Cyrul
M7H - I think the term better used would be pessimist... Seems that you never have anything positive or constructive to say.... Just my .02...

The G4 can be geared much higher than any other TC on the market but they can not gear the car low enough for this engine. Changing the brake pulley will help a bunch I am sure - Also, don't forget to adjust the side pulley ratio so your over-drive will be correct.

I have tested this engine now on 3 tracks - CRF, Toledo and Crystal Park - CRF is quite small and we did use very small gearing. Toledo and Crystal Park I used the exact same gear ratios from one track to the other. We did test with different gearing but we still yeilded the best performance with 7.38 first gear and 5.09 second gear - This would be the largest (most top speed) gearing I would run on this engine for any track over 200ft length.
Now Josh, this ain't fair. MH7 is most optimistic about everything that comes with a Serpent label....

Must be a Dutch thing

Thanks for your advise on the engine. I will translate for my friend until his CRF gets close to my own engine, but no further
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:20 PM   #533
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
and.......
we now made it possible for Germany to get to the final before we meet eachother...
I guess NOT...
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:21 PM   #534
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M7H
As can be read in this thread, the engine is a bit "hard" to handle, because it needs quite a lot of testing to find the exact proper set-up, lets call the "sweet spot" of this engine "small"
Also you get 6 needles for your carb. (right?) which probably is needed to tune the engine correct for the track you need it for, together with a "slippery" clutch which will wear more and even might not finish an final of an hour, gives me the idea that this engine just might not be the choice of many.....
I disagree that the sweet spot is small. It is different than that of the typical engine. So years of what one thinks is correct no longer applies. You will have to find a new sweet spot. And modify your thinking.

The engine has many tuning options available. These are not required, but when looking at the lack of tuning options available compared to electric motors, we determined that the serious racer would like the ability to fine tune his engine for the best performance possible. In the past you may have had to compromise on your set-up because you had few options. With the CRF engine and options, you will never have to compromise.

FYI, I prefer (and used) the Kyosho clutch rather than the CRF clutch.
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:21 PM   #535
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if no one test new things,
we would to be on tree as our forfahters

dieter
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Old 06-27-2006, 04:48 PM   #536
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Ok if we are gonna brag about what is best and slag the rest then I will give a run down of motors I have tried since 1997

Sirio: I have had 3 (TRP/Evo2/Evo3), snapped a crankshaft in all of them after 3 months of use, seems 3 months is the lifetime of their crankshafts, shame as they are the easiest to tune to the sweet spot and boy do they rev.

JP: only had one (FXT03) and it was great, tuned in after 8 tanks, lasted 9 months until I was t-boned hard enough to crack the crankcase (FW05RR).

NovaRossi: has S1/S3/LL3, never got them tuned in properly but have set my fastest qually time with the LL3, a 22 lapper at my track (in G4 only), never blown one.

STS: gutless but strangely quick times when grip levels are low, set my first 20 lapper with this motor (Rubber tyres back then), conrod eventually cried enough.

Wasp CRF: not got the car geared low enough to find the sweet point, motor can do 140ft in 1st on main straight with 18T pinion and 19T pulleys.

Mega: to many have had conrod failures so I ignore this one.

And have you noticed how Serpent drivers always invade other forum posts? must be a Serpent thing.
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:08 PM   #537
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Best engine I had was a BRB set... Worsed engine I had was.... The BRB set i have now!!

The RR12L5 was about the fastest but i think the Murman LL3 i have now is possibly quicker but not tuned right yet

From what I have seen most people never tune their engines to give optimum power, including me!
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Old 06-27-2006, 05:37 PM   #538
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To be fair the vast majority of Serpent supporters are well adjusted and don't feel the need to bash the competition. From my experience Serpent products are well made and do perform.

I am a Serpent dealer and believe in their products but when it comes to my car its a Wasp powered G4s.

Dennis and his team do an excellent job supporting their Team Magic customers with a relaxed approachable attitude. They seem to realize that for nearly all of us this is a hobby and should be fun above all else.

On the motor front Orion has provided much testing & tuning information for their product through Josh, Nano, & Rick. I don't know of any other team that has gone so far as to advise you gearing and clutch setup for their product.

I have long believed that the days of an all dominating chassis or motor are over. Today we have many options at the top of the performance curve and my money goes to the one that provides the best support @ a competitive price.

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Old 06-27-2006, 08:29 PM   #539
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtveten
...
I have long believed that the days of an all dominating chassis or motor are over. Today we have many options at the top of the performance curve and my money goes to the one that provides the best support @ a competitive price.

Mark
couldn't agree more
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Old 06-28-2006, 01:40 AM   #540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfc_tech
couldn't agree more
I 2nd that
I was 100% Kyosho since 1997, but then I tested a G4S and found it suited my style much better than any other car I tested.
I just need to find out if this motor is right for me, or if I'm better suited to a lower revving high torque motor.
Just waiting on Mr Postman with my pulleys.
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