If you will know what that Sirio is and by whom it is prepare and where, you will not make equial line. Also one Sirio won and three broke-it is 1/3 ratio.;) :nod:

.

In fact, I do make p/s sets for 21 and 12 engines out of BRB and a lot of people saw my products yesterday and everybody was ammazed of them. You can find out easy from a lot of people who was there. BTW, on Winternats in Florida my product was shining- check around and people will tell you what I am talking about.
About Josh's engine, he didn't have any tuning problem at all. he got mechanical fail on engine and it was keep blowing plugs ( at list 4 or 5), which give enough clue to say that conrod is gone or piston cracked, btw, are you sure he wasn't running LCI? I saw what he was running, on his pit table, did you see it?:nod: :D :lol:
Please notice, that my coments here to not drive down the brand, I hate when reps are blaming racers for engine failuers-run in was done wrong, too lean, too reach etc, etc etc.:D

If he was running LCI engines, then they were not Sirio. LCI works with Rossi engines. If they were Sirio then they have to be LCM.
BTW you can also constantly blow plugs with bad fuel and/or wrong co´mpression ratio,not necesarily conrod or piston failure. At any rate the only one that can answer that question is Josh himself. Lets not jump on to conclusion so easily.

AFM

This is exsactly what I am talking about. :D :D :D :D :lol: :lol: :lol:
Rep always blame racer in engine failure.:D :D :D

.

Unfortunately, you even can't read the posts, I have never sad that plugs can be blown due to the wrong compression ratio or fuel, it was AFM. So, start from here the rest is BS.
Yes, my native language isn't english, I came from Russia and I learned English here. Even that I can separate by looking on the posts who sad what!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
BTW, if you know Josh, ask him about me, you might find something very interesting.
Best regards
Edward

.

Hey guys, lets cool it down and put things in it's real proportions. This whole issue started by somebody posting a picture of his broken crank, and questioning the quality of Sirio engines.
After observing them I posted my opinion that it was caused by long periods of overheating, which was then admitted by the owner.
TG you jumped in, selling the idea that Sirio engines have bad quality and that Nova based engines were superior blah, blah..... and somebody else, posting pictures, said that not only Sirios break but also Nova based engines do, if mistreated and or badly tuned, idea which i support and also that there is no perfect engine.
You are a manufacturer and I bet your engines have their share of problems to, but it is not ethical for you to induce a thinking that every engine out there...except your's..... is a piece of $%&&.
Give constructive advice, because you are not going to sell more engines by trashing the competition.
State your strenghts and prove them on the track with results, and help others, if you wish, giving advice on how to avoid desaster, but not throwing $%$& with a fan over other brands.
AMEN

AFM

Good, to know, that you saw me with Josh and I realy don't care how do you know that.
If engine turns, it doesn't mean that conrod is OK, it might not be broken on pieces, butif it loose on pin ( ery common problem) it will be creating a lot of debry,which is going to combustion chamber, light up ( there is enough temp to light up AL) and burn out filament of glow plug. It also can be AL sleeve got loose in case and creating Al debry, goes to combustion chamber etc. It is still mechanical failure.
Whatever reason was, but there were more broken Sirios then Novas-this is bottom line. So, I still saying that Sirio is much less reliable then Novas based engines. In the mean time they have some very good design ideas there.
best regards
Edward
You didn't insult me at all, don't worry about it.:D :D :D

Actualy I wasn't against Sirio and I sad, that reps always blaming racer for engine failure and you are the Sirio rep and you are doing it.
You can do as long as you want to, but it is not ethical to balme racers in everything.:D

.

It isn't true that reps "allways" blame users and/or racers for engine failures........ here you go again asuming false conclusions. Sirio and other brands, and I've quoted several examples (JP, STS, Nova Sirio, etc, posted in this forum pages), have replaced any damaged engine or part......... when failure is clearly by bad production failure, but not when you can clearly see it is by misuse or abuse........and I bet you have same policy...or are you going to tell me now that you give unlimited guarantee over racing engines????? Show me a brand that guarantees racing engines of any kind.
Yes I agree with you on not being ethical to allways blame users for all problems, but statistically it is most of the time by abuse or misuse that problems ocurr, and that is when serious tech support comes on the game, and makes the difference in brands.

AFM

Well, to say the truth, if you bet on my policy you lost already. I have no limited polices on exchange of the parts, there is only one policy-if something went down-it wasn't strong enough. I don't guarranty normal wear and tear, but everything else, even if anybody can prove, it was abuse, I change it. Even it was instance, when, the racer couldn't pull out sleeve from case tryed to use screwdriver to take it and ruined the sleeve, I chanaged without question. I know sound is stupid, but I do change broken parts with no investigation of cause and blame for too lean or too reach. I am defently asking how it is happened, but it is only for developing point. try to find where is weak point is and find right solution for it. Yes it was couple failurs on the very beginning of 12 size piston/sleeve sets, but I got right picture how it is happened, we change alloy for piston and guys who had roblem recived new sets without any cost for them. I can easy prove it was too cold running ( my sets hate to be cold and I noted them it), but I don't do. I just see it this way-if you pay money-you have to have fun.
This is my policy.

Yes, the LCM indeed has a ton of HP. But how much is it? I believe it is almost twice (maybe over) than Sirio Evo2 price. So you can't say Sirio produce higher performance engine with less price compare to Novarossi. Sirio with Sirio-based LCM is totally different story...

there was a hundreds of Novas engines and we will nevr find out how many blew up, but even if it was 20 out 100 it is only 20% failure, but 2 Sirios out of 6 is about 33 %. I think no need extra explanation.
To change head clearance from 0.0175 to 0.029 is realy huge difference ( about 0.025 cc head volume increase), I agree with that. But I am very certain that detonation came mainly not from compression ratio. If I will be asked what to do first, I will sugest to glue sleeve to crancase. I explain many times what happening with AAc sets and will do it again. Sleeve sitting in all Sirio engine pretty free and during the work sleeve has micro vibration and create a lot of microscopic debry. That debry goes to combustion chamber and light up during the combustion process and create a lot of temperature, which is creating abnormal detonation. I will be agree to slow down detonation if you change head volume on 0.012, but if it was reqired to rasise further, for me meaning-it wasn't compression ratio. It is my assuming and I will start from it. I also can sugest to use Ferrocene in this kind of case, it will remove detonation completely, but it will keep combustion speed at the same rate. Again if it is detonatin cause by compression ratio-it is easy solve by couple different ways, but if detonation create by other issues-it will not help.

TopGun, thanks, now we are talking more constructively. Regarding the % numbers I unserstand what you are saying. I was just talking about the guys in our team. There were more LCM engines there. The difference realy I think (and I think that you will agree with me) is that most normal drivers do not push their engines as far as what we (people running at A main national levels of racing) do. (guys, don't take me wrong, I'm not trying to sound like a snob). But what I'm saying is that when at this level people are pushing the raw limits of what any engine can do both in terms of HP and longevity. Most normal drivers will never push their engines this far in regards to compression, RPM and general strain, a 1 hour main at this level is simply torture for any brand of engine. I still stand by my beliefs that having 2 engine failures for 6 drivers under these conditions is good. Heck look at Sal, the only TOP driver to make the main. He blew his engine so this equals a 100% failure rate for them. Are their engines unreliable? I personaly don't think so, it was probably just pushed too far. As you are aware of it can be any numbers of variables, clutch engages too late causing engine to bog= excessive strain on engine= raising temp on engine, engine possibly a little too lean, pipe gets damaged causing engine to go lean, tires wear down too much=over rev engine, clutch starts slipping, tank leaks, engine is over compressed etc. etc. etc.

Regarding the aluminum particles that you mentioned it is possible. However the issues that we experienced were only with the drivers running this 1 particular type of fuel. The rest we could run at the lower deck heights and had no failures or engine related tuning issues. This leads me to think that it is fuel related. In hind sight having to make such a dramatic deck height change just to run this fuel without detonation should have been a warning sign. Something I guess we ignored.




daniz24 you said "Yes, the LCM indeed has a ton of HP. But how much is it? I believe it is almost twice (maybe over) than Sirio Evo2 price. So you can't say Sirio produce higher performance engine with less price compare to Novarossi. Sirio with Sirio-based LCM is totally different story..."





When you say Evo2 I think that you are talking about .12's which I do not know a lot about as I'm involved mostly with 1/8. I have however seen the new LCM .12 engines and there is a lot of neat stuff that they are doing. Regarding prices I think they said they are supposed to street around $300 and should be available in a month or so. Is this twice as much as the Evo2's?

I can talk about engines a lot and can give anybody a lot of advce and ideas how to solve this or that problem, but I realy don't like when destributor is blaming user and very often is for nothing.
About detonation, as I mentioned before, try to find ferrocene and try it, you will see real difference. Since it was used first time in airmodeling in some classes, results grew up tramendosly. But in many classes there ( FAI) they have standart fuel, with no additives, so it is use only on 1 class now. Most anti dtonation additives slow down detonation but also slow down speed of combustion process, but ferrocene is realy unique-it will not slow down combustion process whatsoever. It has some negative sides too-engine has to be clean more often, but if you go to limit of power, this is what people need.
about reliability of P/S sets- I realyy might make some prototyes for Sirio. At list for Novas it is working just great. It has no negative respond ( performance) if it is overleaned ( unless too lean), but it will loose power, and so far no one set ( there is more then you can immaging in use right now ) ever been blew up. Actualy I want to blew up one ( due to overheating) and so far never. We even run it with no smog was comming out from pipe for full tank-nothing, not even any damage for it.
The only one reason keep me off from it is -there are not too many Sirios is around and for whom I will make it?
Edward

Price depends on a lot of things. The way the company is set up is a huge influence on cost = shelf price. NovaRossi made some business decisions that are working against them at the moment. That is one reason prices went up.

TG......I owe you....a drink???.....well someday we'll meet there, or here in Peru......Hats off on your Guarantee Policy, it's one of a kind in the racing industry of any motorized sport.
And as I said before, If you decide to make better parts for Sirio engines, they will be more than welcomed.
Lets keep having fun meanwhile.

AFM

For your files, and to set this issue clear. I distribute Sirio engines here in Peru, and this are the suggested retail prices in Europe for 3 ports .12 Sirio engines (prices in Euros):
S12 TRP Evo 2 EFRA ABC Turbo 253.00
S12 TRP PRO Evo 2 EFRA AAC Turbo 263.72
S12 TRP Evo 2 IFMAR ABC Turbo 261.95
S12 TRP PRO Evo2 IFMAR AAC Turbo 272.54
And these are the suggested retail prices for LCM engines:
LC12 PRO 3E Standard AAC EFRA Turbo 259.90
LC12 PRO 3E MC Mauro Collari Modified 340.20

So as you can see, the Standard EFRA AAC LCM, is actually
1.45 % cheaper than the equivalent EVO2

Now, the Modified LCM, is 25% more than the equivalent IFMAR EVO2.

Of course actual sales prices may vary from LHS to LHS.

Now if you compare the price of the Modified LCM with a Modified JP FX03.......they are priced just about the same.

Hope this clears the issue

AFM

Yes. That's weird, in here the Evo2 cost about US220 and other guy asking for almost US400 for M.Collari Modified Sirio.

Quote:

---

Now if you compare the price of the Modified LCM with a Modified JP FX03.......they are priced just about the same.

Hope this clears the issue

---

Yes, Modified LCM are slightly higher than JP Modified. For the power, I heard LCM is quite good but never have chance to try it since I'm distributing JP engines in here. Thanks AFM ;)

does anyone got anything to say about the (21brpro)buggy pro? this motor has caused me grief for awhile now....i burned a hole through the piston(leaned out after running "good"??)...... rebuilt it..going for round 2...who knows this engine makes me feel like im brand new at this game??? sombody want to tell me a trick....plug??? fuel??? temp??? anything??? when this thing runs good (once in awhile)i got to hand it to em its fricken fast!!!..:weird:

Is it AAC construction? If it is , just glue sleeve in crancase and all your problem will disappear. Please don't ask me how to take it later-I have no idea, but you burn the hole in piston due to the issues which any AAC conventional desing engines have (please read my posts above). If it is ABC, above principals will not help, it might be different reasons. Give more dscription of your problems and I am sure someone will give you clue.
Edward

In regards to the engine failures at the nationals, we did some research to find the true cause of the engine problems and asked those racers what they found when they disassembled their broken engines. It's my understanding that they all changed to a new rod as suggested by the engines importer just before the A-main. Later upon disassembling the broken engines it was discovered that one engine had a wrist pin clip come out that destroied the piston and sleeve, another engine had the lower end of the rod break just above the crank pin. We're still waiting for a response from the third driver but I will post the response when available. In no way can a loose wrist pin clip or a broken rod (above the crank pin) be blamed on fuel! In fact these racers were using the fuel for several months prior to the event with total reliability. It's a real bummer when these things happen and it's only natural to try to find the cause.

So, what do you think will cause to c-clip come out and conrod broken? I agree it is not fuel at all.;)

yes top gun it is aac....glue the sleeve in with what? if that would help i guess its worth a try...when my engine broke or (burned a hole) it was pretty lean i developed an air leak somwhere and i was just trying to get another lap in the qualifier......stupid me! biggest mistake i ever made!!:( what my motor would do (when it was new) is start up fine then stall soon as i apply some throttle...seemed like no matter where i put my settings it would just stall anyway...it would also start (from cold)run for a little while stall then when i try to restart it wouldnt fire?? even after the last run was coming off at 240 deg??? with from what i saw as a great tune...fast punchy everything i wanted...have you heard of anybody haveing the idle screw back out?? i think this happend to me last run ive yet to really look but it seemed as if the slide was completely closed???:confused: its also got a killer pinch is that because of aac?? how long do i have to run this thing before it just plain starts easier!!

Guy's, I have been reviewing this thread for a little while and wanted to make a couple of comments. 1, TKT's comments were based on overheard conversations and were an attempt to relay information that was not entirely accurate. 2, Those comments are not the opinion of Werks Racing. 3, Our team experienced a total of two engine failures at the nationals. 4, The two issues were caused by a wrist pin failure (not clip related) and a rod failure. Any time an engine is stressed under racing conditions these failures can occur for a multitude of reasons. 5, It is NOT our opinion that these issues are in any way fuel related. If you have further questions regarding this please feel free to call me directly at (408)365-1000.

Ron Hopkins
Werks Racing

You can use LOCTITE 635, 638 or 640. Defenetly you will not be able to disassembly it onese it cures.
Edward

any star motor offiliates out here??
 

if i have to actually glue my sleeve in for it to run right....what good is this engine then... ive been pulling my hair out with this thing for awhile and after a new piston sleeve button wrist pin and a proper bench break in the thing still dont run right?? i was starting to re-evaluate my tuning skills?? since this thread has people offiliated with star motors in it.....what would you say ive spent much$$$$$ and i have yet to see any return but problems!! i want to ship this thing back!! ive had a rb c3 rody(three thumbs up!!) and a rossi black magic ( another three thumbs up!!) still have em and they still run like a top...this motor i bought beacause i wanted to put a new engine in my x5 because i bought the x5 new...last year it cost me 3 points races and this year this last past sunday it cost me one because it stalled for no reason!! i dont want it anymore...

Re: any star motor offiliates out here??
 

Don't get disappointed right away. I do understand your position, but as I sad before, every manufacturer who will try make AAC on conventional design, will sooner or later face this problem. We pass this problem years ago ( 1980's) and since that we don't use AAC ( I know for fact that one of my P/S set out of AAC been use by very high ranked racer and it was very successfully, he won a lot of competitions in Europe and in Asia, but sleeve was glued to crancase) on conventional design. I might be able to help later, but at this point I have nothing to offer for Sirio engines.
Edward

hmmm is that why you new engine has da sleeve intrgrated with the block?

Yep. AAC construction has realy good materials properties, but because of issue explaned before and cooling rates, we went to our new design. On top of it there is a lot of machine work is eliminated ( milling of the ports-very expencive work). Also a lot of racers had faced problem when dividers between ports are getting craked due to the material thikness, so we eliminated one more place where device can have failure.

what if i dont want to glue my sleeve in??? and i shouldnt have to for it to work?? but if i gotta do it i guess i will??

It is my sugestion based on previuse expirience and experimants done lately. i can't tell you what you have to do, I just sharing my knowlodge. But ones agin if you glue sleeve in case, you will naver be able to take it out. Not to many peole can afford it. to loose crancase after P/S set is gone, so please take this to considiration. To change conrd will be pain of but too, and I am sure not too many people knows how to change conrod wihout taking out P/S set, but it is possible and it is actualy very simple basic procedure. SO please before you make up your mind make sure you wieght all +++ and ---.
Edward

Help
 

Hi, I bought my kyosho V-one RRR that come with Sirio S12 TRP-I Evo2 engine. The instruction are in Japanese. Do any of you have it in english version? Please send it to me. Thanks

Re: Help
 

You mean instructions for the engine??? Go to www.teamtrinity.com there you'll find Sirio's bulletins and under tips youll find some good advice on tuning nitro engines.
For the car you better go to the Kyosho V one R thread in this forum, several guys are discussing the bulid up and set up of your model there.

AFM

Yeah, I just need the engine instruction. I'll check at trinity. Thanks

BREAK IN PROCESS
 

THIS YOU WON'T FIND AT RINITY'S SITE

This is what Andrea Rossi from Sirio says for Break-In

AFM

This is the correct Break-In procedure for the Sirio S12 Evo2

1.- One 125CC (1) tank in the bench at WOT with very rich setting of HSN, avoiding it to go on 4 stroke.
COOL DOWN
2.- Three (3) tanks on the track at WOT on the main straight with very rich setting of HSN, as if the engine wants to die, and tuning the HSN at the end of third tank to get almost full power.
COOL DOWN AFTER EVERY TANK
3.- For 20% Nitro, use .20 head shim and N° 7 Glow plug.

After that, the engine will give more power every new tank.

Which means that Breaking-In Sirios, should be done with more or less 300 to 500cc of fuel.

Andrea Rossi
Star Motor Corp. (SIRIO)

What is the best glow plug to use with this engine?