How to Help Beginners WIN.
09-06-2006, 08:17 AM
#166
Dear George,
Your idiocy is showing through......I have repeatedly stated that I don't think you can get more power by programming the ESC.....never said it, never thought it. Some of the guys have a mistaken belief that the new ESC uses a limiter of sorts.....I don't. I know how the things work.....try reading my posts again and then maybe on the third or tenth time, you may finally understand what I am saying.
Reprogramming for more torque or more RPM is not more power.....you have to give up one to gain the other....they do it in plane and boat motors all the time. The same theory applies to brushed motors....except the tuning is done with hardware (brushes and springs) instead of software.
Later EddieO
Your idiocy is showing through......I have repeatedly stated that I don't think you can get more power by programming the ESC.....never said it, never thought it. Some of the guys have a mistaken belief that the new ESC uses a limiter of sorts.....I don't. I know how the things work.....try reading my posts again and then maybe on the third or tenth time, you may finally understand what I am saying.
Reprogramming for more torque or more RPM is not more power.....you have to give up one to gain the other....they do it in plane and boat motors all the time. The same theory applies to brushed motors....except the tuning is done with hardware (brushes and springs) instead of software.
Later EddieO
09-06-2006, 08:27 AM
#167
i often wonder if people get so carried away with typing they forget what they have said 3 or 4 lines earlier, like "wheres the limiter when you change motors" and then go on to say the limiter is in sportsman profile,
it just makes sense that if "they" can preprogram a esc to have a limiter, then someone can un program it.
Pdx, not sure if it was this thread or the other thread, i made a little joke about "tuning" hand out motors at events where they have hand outs. while i was joking about most of it, rest assured, there is nothing handout about a handout stock motor. i remember when i first starting racing, my first big two day handout motor event, i still pretty much sucked at driving but was just getting ripped motor wise by everyone, so i asked how come my motor is so slow, "well did you cut it, change the brushes, change the springs," i was surprize, i asked, "these are handout motors, don't you have to run them they way they come" (yea i was that stupid).
i think the point of the brushless motor is for less work to maintain, and so you don't have guys figuring out all the crazy stuff to do to make them faster. problem is most rc guys are geeks and nerds like eddie said, and one of them will find a way to make a brushless faster. taking away the equal motor theory and placing it back on just the driver. the rest of this thread is just about trying to figure out who is the master debater.
it just makes sense that if "they" can preprogram a esc to have a limiter, then someone can un program it.
Pdx, not sure if it was this thread or the other thread, i made a little joke about "tuning" hand out motors at events where they have hand outs. while i was joking about most of it, rest assured, there is nothing handout about a handout stock motor. i remember when i first starting racing, my first big two day handout motor event, i still pretty much sucked at driving but was just getting ripped motor wise by everyone, so i asked how come my motor is so slow, "well did you cut it, change the brushes, change the springs," i was surprize, i asked, "these are handout motors, don't you have to run them they way they come" (yea i was that stupid).
i think the point of the brushless motor is for less work to maintain, and so you don't have guys figuring out all the crazy stuff to do to make them faster. problem is most rc guys are geeks and nerds like eddie said, and one of them will find a way to make a brushless faster. taking away the equal motor theory and placing it back on just the driver. the rest of this thread is just about trying to figure out who is the master debater.
09-06-2006, 09:05 AM
#168
Still stuck on this limiter thing eh.
No one is pushing for running a mod type motor in stock by using a limiter in the ecs. It would be like wanting to run you 12*1 in stock by turning down your endpoint. If brushless has its own spec class it will not use the ESC to limit the speed. It will be limited by the MOTOR specs just like it is now.
Yes we all know that NOVAK, and LRP have a sportman mode that limits RPM but there is no way your going to use that as a basis for a class.
Thats it from me time to go get the Nitro car prepped.
No one is pushing for running a mod type motor in stock by using a limiter in the ecs. It would be like wanting to run you 12*1 in stock by turning down your endpoint. If brushless has its own spec class it will not use the ESC to limit the speed. It will be limited by the MOTOR specs just like it is now.
Yes we all know that NOVAK, and LRP have a sportman mode that limits RPM but there is no way your going to use that as a basis for a class.
Thats it from me time to go get the Nitro car prepped.
09-06-2006, 10:08 AM
#169
I know a stock brushless would help a beginner win ...
It will allow a beginner to achieve the same performance as brush with out all the dark secrets the experience racer`s have after years and years of driving in the stock class`s...
They will be able to focus of driving instead of devoting all their time on a twicking a obsolete motor design....
This alone will help them win....
Now if only we could get those turtle`s in a class of their own ..
Then even more beginner`s will win !!!
These beginners will stop racing if they feel they are not making progress.
Its just the way they are .
Very sensitive to losing each race day , they need encouragement if they are to stick to racing R/c ...
So let a beginner win , its the best help you could ever do for the sport.
You still can race your buddy`s in the other class`s like always !
So do the right thing and stop beating beginner`s until they never come back....
It will allow a beginner to achieve the same performance as brush with out all the dark secrets the experience racer`s have after years and years of driving in the stock class`s...
They will be able to focus of driving instead of devoting all their time on a twicking a obsolete motor design....
This alone will help them win....
Now if only we could get those turtle`s in a class of their own ..
Then even more beginner`s will win !!!
These beginners will stop racing if they feel they are not making progress.
Its just the way they are .
Very sensitive to losing each race day , they need encouragement if they are to stick to racing R/c ...
So let a beginner win , its the best help you could ever do for the sport.
You still can race your buddy`s in the other class`s like always !
So do the right thing and stop beating beginner`s until they never come back....
Last edited by Wild Cherry; 09-06-2006 at 10:55 AM.
09-06-2006, 10:39 AM
#170
Motor doesn't make you win or lose especially not at TRCR
09-06-2006, 11:32 PM
#171
well what about the stock guys that move up to mod and get beat by you every week they get discouraged too maybe you should find a new class to race so us slow stock turtle guys can win ... DUDE SERIOUSLY THE HORSE IS DEAD STOP BEATING
were gonna race what we WANT to race and when were told we cant most of us WILL QUIT
were gonna race what we WANT to race and when were told we cant most of us WILL QUIT
09-06-2006, 11:54 PM
#173
Steve ,
You don`t have da quit , Brain created a pro stock truck class just waiting for you to dominate .....
You even have my blessing`s.....
Its all good dude !!!
You don`t have da quit , Brain created a pro stock truck class just waiting for you to dominate .....
You even have my blessing`s.....
Its all good dude !!!
09-07-2006, 05:30 AM
#174
Tech Master
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
I know a stock brushless would help a beginner win ...
It will allow a beginner to achieve the same performance as brush with out all the dark secrets the experience racer`s have after years and years of driving in the stock class`s...
....
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
Now if only we could get those turtle`s in a class of their own ..
Then even more beginner`s will win !!!
....
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
These beginners will stop racing if they feel they are not making progress.
....
C'mon america quit being lazy so George will shut his hole.
Originally Posted by Wild Cherry
So do the right thing and stop beating beginner`s until they never come back....
Blah blah blah
09-07-2006, 07:08 AM
#175
Originally Posted by 403forbidden
Tell that the to the BL ban happy people.
besides steve was talking about class not motors
09-07-2006, 08:02 AM
#176
Regional Moderator
Originally Posted by 403forbidden
Tell that the to the BL ban happy people.
The bigest motor sport in the world NASCAR uses "stock" motors. They have limit's on the motors that must be met. It is the same in RC racing, there are limit's on the motors that must be met to be considered "stock".
Please point out to me what spec's this new motor meets to be considered a "stock" motor?
09-07-2006, 08:44 AM
#177
This all seems like 'Much Ado About Nothing.' The only thing (IMO of course) that is going to help anyone win is practice, and then more practice. Driving ability, with proper practice, increases on an arithmatic curve. Fast at first, then slower as you get better and better. Normally, that is enough reward in and of itself to keep the truely interested racer racing. Other racers being friendly, and helpful was more than enough for me to not get discouraged.
If someone is going to get discouraged enough to quit just because they haven't won a race (discounting any beginner or novice class), then they would probably be better off in a new hobby. I have very little chance of winning against the likes of Richard Tunnel, Brad May, Glen Roberson, Ray Villanueve et al., but because I keep improving every race, I find it very rewarding racing against (and losing to) some of the better guys in the PNW.
The top NCT racers are spread out all over the PNW. Its near impossible to go to a club race anywhere and not see one or two. With that in mind, the beginning racer has no reason to feel bad about not winning a race.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it would be much better to help a novice with tuning, setup and/or driving tips, so that it's obvious even to them that they are getting better each time at the track. Or at the very least understanding things better. As opposed to trying to make multiple novice classes and/or a micro-managed beginner class. IMO of course.
If someone is going to get discouraged enough to quit just because they haven't won a race (discounting any beginner or novice class), then they would probably be better off in a new hobby. I have very little chance of winning against the likes of Richard Tunnel, Brad May, Glen Roberson, Ray Villanueve et al., but because I keep improving every race, I find it very rewarding racing against (and losing to) some of the better guys in the PNW.
The top NCT racers are spread out all over the PNW. Its near impossible to go to a club race anywhere and not see one or two. With that in mind, the beginning racer has no reason to feel bad about not winning a race.
I guess what I am trying to say is that it would be much better to help a novice with tuning, setup and/or driving tips, so that it's obvious even to them that they are getting better each time at the track. Or at the very least understanding things better. As opposed to trying to make multiple novice classes and/or a micro-managed beginner class. IMO of course.
09-07-2006, 08:59 AM
#178
Originally Posted by 403forbidden
Tell that the to the BL ban happy people.
And I'd have to agree with the previous post.
What does brushless have to do with helping beginners win? I've read this thread and found nothing........
Help people drive, set-up and tune their cars. Isn't it that simple? Racing is about winning. If people get discouraged because they never win - they aren't racers.
09-07-2006, 10:54 AM
#179
We shouldn't be worrying about helping them WIN.....we should concentrate more on helping they stay interested in the hobby.....I have not won in years and its still fun for me....
People who end up quitting cause they don't win, would of just quit anyways.....its just the lame cop out they use.
You can't force people to enjoy the hobby.....and winning should not be a necessity to stay in it...
I think what turns people off is showing up to the track to only find 1-3 people racing their class cause we have 20 different classes so everyone WINS...I'd rather race against 20 and get dead last....then race against two and win....
Later EddieO
People who end up quitting cause they don't win, would of just quit anyways.....its just the lame cop out they use.
You can't force people to enjoy the hobby.....and winning should not be a necessity to stay in it...
I think what turns people off is showing up to the track to only find 1-3 people racing their class cause we have 20 different classes so everyone WINS...I'd rather race against 20 and get dead last....then race against two and win....
Later EddieO
09-07-2006, 11:20 AM
#180
Eddie , these beginner`s are very sensitive to how they are making progress..
If they feel they can`t do it , or can`t afford, they quit !
When beginner`s are racing in novice they have a fair field to race against so it is not difficult for them to make progress...
Once they are bumped into stock they have to race someone who not only has year`s of experience , but also have discounted gear & motor`s that are difficult to keep up with...
The whole system we have using in our racing program has to change ..
We need to think more about Scott`s idea in making class`s design around experience instead of the motor we buy....
Change the race program, then we should see our sport begin to grow again....
If they feel they can`t do it , or can`t afford, they quit !
When beginner`s are racing in novice they have a fair field to race against so it is not difficult for them to make progress...
Once they are bumped into stock they have to race someone who not only has year`s of experience , but also have discounted gear & motor`s that are difficult to keep up with...
The whole system we have using in our racing program has to change ..
We need to think more about Scott`s idea in making class`s design around experience instead of the motor we buy....
Change the race program, then we should see our sport begin to grow again....