Mugen MTX-4
05-22-2007, 06:34 AM
#8431
Here's my advice. I tried everything I read on here to fix my sgs. I had a mtx-3 for about 2 years that was rebuilt top to bottom I don't know how many times so I think I might know how to put a car together.
I tried different 2-speed shoes gap adjustments, aluminum chassis brace, different clutch end-bell to take out the slop of the end-bell, put a washer on the bulkhead side of the 2-speed pin to push the shoes out further, steel pinions, different gear ratios, and probably a lot more things that I can't even remember now. Anyway, nothing and I mean nothing, made a difference. I was still stripping gears all the time.
UNTIL, I got my 4mm 3 racing chassis from rcmushroom. When I put that chassis on, that was the only change I made on the car and after a full day of running, I didn't strip a single gear. I have made other adjustments as far as clutch and 2-speed since getting the 4mm chassis and still no stripped gears after another full day of racing.
I really feel that there was a combination of factors causing my problem but the 4mm was the last piece of the puzzle. I think the clutch end-bell slop is bad and if you have the end-bell with one hole, you need to get the new one with 2 holes. Also, make sure the 2nd gear housing isn't touching the chassis brace. If so, put the shim on the bulkhead side of the 2nd gear pin. And, adjust the 2nd gear shoes so there is the correct gap between them and the housing (check back in this thread to get the info on how to do that).
I agree with AI that there is a defect in the car and some people got the defect (like me) and some people didn't. It took me a long time to fix my sgs and it still bothers me to hear people say that we idiots are putting the car together incorrectly. If this is your opinion, keep it to yourself because it's not helping the problem. I will also write Mugen as you requested AI.
I tried different 2-speed shoes gap adjustments, aluminum chassis brace, different clutch end-bell to take out the slop of the end-bell, put a washer on the bulkhead side of the 2-speed pin to push the shoes out further, steel pinions, different gear ratios, and probably a lot more things that I can't even remember now. Anyway, nothing and I mean nothing, made a difference. I was still stripping gears all the time.
UNTIL, I got my 4mm 3 racing chassis from rcmushroom. When I put that chassis on, that was the only change I made on the car and after a full day of running, I didn't strip a single gear. I have made other adjustments as far as clutch and 2-speed since getting the 4mm chassis and still no stripped gears after another full day of racing.
I really feel that there was a combination of factors causing my problem but the 4mm was the last piece of the puzzle. I think the clutch end-bell slop is bad and if you have the end-bell with one hole, you need to get the new one with 2 holes. Also, make sure the 2nd gear housing isn't touching the chassis brace. If so, put the shim on the bulkhead side of the 2nd gear pin. And, adjust the 2nd gear shoes so there is the correct gap between them and the housing (check back in this thread to get the info on how to do that).
I agree with AI that there is a defect in the car and some people got the defect (like me) and some people didn't. It took me a long time to fix my sgs and it still bothers me to hear people say that we idiots are putting the car together incorrectly. If this is your opinion, keep it to yourself because it's not helping the problem. I will also write Mugen as you requested AI.
05-22-2007, 08:48 AM
#8433
in regards to the sgs, I've not experienced 1 gear strip. i've used both skyline hollow shaft and original and still no problem. I'm on my second 3mm chassis and have replaced the 2nd gear housing due to worn out oneway bearing and still no problem. Initially, i did see that the brake disc rubbed the back of my carb, but then I switched to a smaller brake disc, which resolved the issue. I also use a monoblock motor mount and I locktite the screws. Also, check the epa for the throttle because if it's too much, it will cause the chassis to flex. I still use the plastic chassis brace as well. The only thing that I could think of that may cause sgs, is the rear bulkhead, which is something that I've never had to change. Maybe if it is warped or not aligned, the gears wont mesh right (just a possibility) I keep my gear spread to 6 teeth on both pinions and spurs, and I've mixed the original and option pitched spur gears with no problems. another thing to check is the clutchbell clearance from the chassis as it may come to close for comfort.
05-22-2007, 10:09 AM
#8434
uhm, perhaps as ai mentioned some had the issue and the others luckily did not, all the kits on my club are over a year old so they are old versions, the latest i purchases was manufactured in december, still no stripping
happy racing
happy racing
05-22-2007, 11:33 AM
#8435
Originally Posted by blanks596
in regards to the sgs, I've not experienced 1 gear strip. i've used both skyline hollow shaft and original and still no problem. I'm on my second 3mm chassis and have replaced the 2nd gear housing due to worn out oneway bearing and still no problem. Initially, i did see that the brake disc rubbed the back of my carb, but then I switched to a smaller brake disc, which resolved the issue. I also use a monoblock motor mount and I locktite the screws. Also, check the epa for the throttle because if it's too much, it will cause the chassis to flex. I still use the plastic chassis brace as well. The only thing that I could think of that may cause sgs, is the rear bulkhead, which is something that I've never had to change. Maybe if it is warped or not aligned, the gears wont mesh right (just a possibility) I keep my gear spread to 6 teeth on both pinions and spurs, and I've mixed the original and option pitched spur gears with no problems. another thing to check is the clutchbell clearance from the chassis as it may come to close for comfort.
Has anyone had problems with the updated uprights (p/n ends with "B")? I tried them but they seemed fragile and the pillow balls would pop out easily. I swapped back to stock uprights (lost some steering) but ran all day with a few good whacks on the wall and didn't break a single one. Anyone else had this problem? Maybe Mugen should check out the hole size in the "B" upright and come out with another updated upright?
05-22-2007, 12:27 PM
#8437
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
My 2 cents...
1. MTX-4 owners in this forum have more problems with gear stripping than any other car. In other words, there are less complaints about gear stripping in the other car threads.
2. If you've never built a Mugen on-road nitro car before, it's possible that you didn't assemble something "correctly" because you just don't have the experience (i.e. didn't own a MTX-3 or other nitro car) and/or the instructions are just not clear enough.
3. Some people that strip their 2nd gear can identify the root cause of the problem and correct the situation. It may be obvious, it may not be obvious. IMO, if you're still having a problem, you may not have identified all the issues that are contributing to the problem.
4. Typical gear stripping explanations include: Worn gears, too big of a 2-speed shoe-to-housing gap, too loose of a gear mesh, bent 2-speed shaft, engine not parallel to the 2-speed shaft and something was binding up on something else. I haven't compiled the complete list of obvious problems, but I'm sure there are a few more. Question is, what isn't so obvious??
5. Some people never strip a gear or can explain away their problem. It's impossible for us to know how many people out of the entire MTX-4 population have "chronic gear stripping syndrome". 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? Who knows?
I'll be the first to admit, if everything isn't "properly aligned, adjusted and functioning", you may strip 2nd gear - but that is true of all cars. Does the MTX-4 have a significantly smaller allowance for "margin of error" compared to the other cars? Perhaps.
1. MTX-4 owners in this forum have more problems with gear stripping than any other car. In other words, there are less complaints about gear stripping in the other car threads.
2. If you've never built a Mugen on-road nitro car before, it's possible that you didn't assemble something "correctly" because you just don't have the experience (i.e. didn't own a MTX-3 or other nitro car) and/or the instructions are just not clear enough.
3. Some people that strip their 2nd gear can identify the root cause of the problem and correct the situation. It may be obvious, it may not be obvious. IMO, if you're still having a problem, you may not have identified all the issues that are contributing to the problem.
4. Typical gear stripping explanations include: Worn gears, too big of a 2-speed shoe-to-housing gap, too loose of a gear mesh, bent 2-speed shaft, engine not parallel to the 2-speed shaft and something was binding up on something else. I haven't compiled the complete list of obvious problems, but I'm sure there are a few more. Question is, what isn't so obvious??
5. Some people never strip a gear or can explain away their problem. It's impossible for us to know how many people out of the entire MTX-4 population have "chronic gear stripping syndrome". 1 in 10? 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? Who knows?
I'll be the first to admit, if everything isn't "properly aligned, adjusted and functioning", you may strip 2nd gear - but that is true of all cars. Does the MTX-4 have a significantly smaller allowance for "margin of error" compared to the other cars? Perhaps.
Seriously, I haven't strip ANY gears since MTX3 era. I broke the 2speed clutch only once, and that's because the gawddammn balls got stuck in between the shoes. Someday I come up with an idea to put longer screws to eliminate the balls completely. It works fine, and my 2speed clutch shoes are going 3 years old in my MTX3.
05-22-2007, 12:56 PM
#8438
Tech Adept
How is this Mugen's fault??, lol, i find it funny that you are blaming a multi million dollar company who ships the exact same kits to each person who purchases it. If you are experiencing gear stripping issues then it is something you have done, or something that your have not adjusted correctly, it makes no sense for Mugen as a company to send out faulty kits. You cannot blame Mugen in this sitaution, they have been in the industry for ages, since the early to mid 90`s. For all the people who are having issues with the gear's, quit making excuses, its something you`ve done, not something Mugen have done. Sorry if i have offended anyone
Originally Posted by chookgb
your blanket comments that people have not built there cars correctly is rubbish i for one have had 20 years experience in the hobby and am more than capable of building my car correctly and i am still having gear stripping issues i have of course tried all of the points listed on this forum as well as others all of which have reduced the stripping problem but i am still having the odd gear stripping. so instead of blaming mtx-4 owners i tend to agree with other peoples sentiments we need to shift the blame towards mugen instead 
05-22-2007, 02:40 PM
#8439
Originally Posted by Ghett0
How is this Mugen's fault??, lol, i find it funny that you are blaming a multi million dollar company who ships the exact same kits to each person who purchases it. If you are experiencing gear stripping issues then it is something you have done, or something that your have not adjusted correctly, it makes no sense for Mugen as a company to send out faulty kits. You cannot blame Mugen in this sitaution, they have been in the industry for ages, since the early to mid 90`s. For all the people who are having issues with the gear's, quit making excuses, its something you`ve done, not something Mugen have done. Sorry if i have offended anyone
05-22-2007, 02:57 PM
#8440
Originally Posted by Ghett0
How is this Mugen's fault??, lol, i find it funny that you are blaming a multi million dollar company who ships the exact same kits to each person who purchases it. If you are experiencing gear stripping issues then it is something you have done, or something that your have not adjusted correctly, it makes no sense for Mugen as a company to send out faulty kits. You cannot blame Mugen in this sitaution, they have been in the industry for ages, since the early to mid 90`s. For all the people who are having issues with the gear's, quit making excuses, its something you`ve done, not something Mugen have done. Sorry if i have offended anyone
05-22-2007, 02:57 PM
#8441
Tech Adept
My stance hasent changed
Originally Posted by rmdhawaii
So clearly, the problem that Dell had a while back with their notebook batteries catching on fire must have been the user's fault for incorrectly using the battery. I mean, Dell is a multi-billion dollar company that has been in business for years. They or their suppliers couldn't possibly make something faulty.
05-22-2007, 03:06 PM
#8442
Originally Posted by Ghett0
My stance hasent changed
05-22-2007, 03:13 PM
#8443
Tech Rookie
Can you blame the manufacturer when the car is so heavily modified from standard?
05-22-2007, 03:25 PM
#8444
Tech Rookie
I'm with you Ghett0.
There is no way there is manufacturing fault with the kit.
There is no way there is manufacturing fault with the kit.
05-22-2007, 03:30 PM
#8445
I had an epiphany. Perhaps its got nothing to do with whats being checked , yet the way we drive. Also its pretty obvious to me that a high grip , big track can also further bring this problem out.
I really think that the guys who think the other guys who are stripping gears are dumb or not checking the car right or not building it right really need to get a grip. I know some serious racers who have had trouble with it.
Ive never had trouble on my other cars.
I drive semi aggressive , with on-off throttle blipping mid corner.
AS WELL IF A MUGEN DRIVER HIMSELF HAD A SPUR GEAR STRIP. As well as other multiple mugen drivers ive seen have the problem. Because if anyone knows how to build this kit , its them. End of story. If you got nothing better to say then bash those who have the problem , you need to shut off your computer , walk outside and take a fresh breath of air...cause thats the last thing we need.
Ive been running the car no troubles until my big track and well. It goes to show that it obviously shows itself only in certain situations.
I also use a spool and I run the urethane belts. I believe this could also further cause trouble. Otherwise this kit is nothing tricky. There is a flaw. Mugen USA also understands this and has fixes for us and well those fixes dont work 100%. Therefore...flaw. Good for you guys that dont get it , but this really doesnt help those who have the trouble.
Those who dont strip , kindly give us a run down of whats on your car so perhaps those with the problem can identify the issue.
I really think that the guys who think the other guys who are stripping gears are dumb or not checking the car right or not building it right really need to get a grip. I know some serious racers who have had trouble with it.
Ive never had trouble on my other cars.
I drive semi aggressive , with on-off throttle blipping mid corner.
AS WELL IF A MUGEN DRIVER HIMSELF HAD A SPUR GEAR STRIP. As well as other multiple mugen drivers ive seen have the problem. Because if anyone knows how to build this kit , its them. End of story. If you got nothing better to say then bash those who have the problem , you need to shut off your computer , walk outside and take a fresh breath of air...cause thats the last thing we need.
Ive been running the car no troubles until my big track and well. It goes to show that it obviously shows itself only in certain situations.
I also use a spool and I run the urethane belts. I believe this could also further cause trouble. Otherwise this kit is nothing tricky. There is a flaw. Mugen USA also understands this and has fixes for us and well those fixes dont work 100%. Therefore...flaw. Good for you guys that dont get it , but this really doesnt help those who have the trouble.
Those who dont strip , kindly give us a run down of whats on your car so perhaps those with the problem can identify the issue.