Mugen MTX-2
11-21-2001, 02:07 PM
#601
Originally posted by Sydewynder
AMGRACER hit the nail on the head about the front oneway and solid rear. I have to steer with the throttle like a 1/8 with this set up (w/front overdrive). Only thing I find opposite is the statement of harder to drive on long consistent speed corners
AMGRACER hit the nail on the head about the front oneway and solid rear. I have to steer with the throttle like a 1/8 with this set up (w/front overdrive). Only thing I find opposite is the statement of harder to drive on long consistent speed corners
Remember NR to only try this on very high grip tracks. A parking lot type track will not work well at all with a solid rear, use the Kawahara negative diff for that!!
11-21-2001, 03:07 PM
#602
Tech Master
First impression on Kawahara clutch diff and front oneway:
Didnt have a chance to take the car to Crystal Park but I just kind of testing it our to see how it handles and try to get a hang of it!
Puting the diff together was not as hard as I thought it would be, thanks to Manticore's technical support!
Front oneway, you just can not use brake what so ever, the car will spun around just like that!
The cars turns in much faster and precised ,I was trying to do those 90 degrees turn and just let the car roll in the turns. It is so precised at the intial turn but after 3/4 through it will spun around(didnt apply brake). after a few more testing then I tied holding gas and do the same 90 degree turn, it was not as preciesed as roll in but more stable through the turns(if gas through turns the intial turning of the car pushes a little bit). Then I tried to roll in the conor then power out(around 3/4 through the turns where it start spun around when I was doing the roll in test) this time it turns in so precised and when I squeezed the trigger it just rocketed out straight.
So I think this is the way I am going to drive my car from now on! it is a lot different from both front and rear gear diff. with regular gear diff and if I power it through the cornor it will keep leaning and leaning. have to brake before the conor and gas it a little bit then graudually gas it out of the conor. But with this setup I think I could roll in the turns then gun it out!
I think it reacts pretty good but still have a little bit of a problem: when I squeeze that son of a bitch hard the car will go straight but when I let go it tends to run to the right. I did alignment last night shouldnt be the problem with alignment really dont know why, may be it's one of the two:
1. the clutch diff needs to break in
2. the road that I test the set up has those rain drainage feature like it's buckle up and slide towards the side of the street.* I think most likely the reason why it pulls to the right*
I will take it to a real track to test some more! by then I will update all of you guys!
Once again, Thanks to Manticore's help getting me the parts and his professional technical support!
Didnt have a chance to take the car to Crystal Park but I just kind of testing it our to see how it handles and try to get a hang of it!
Puting the diff together was not as hard as I thought it would be, thanks to Manticore's technical support!
Front oneway, you just can not use brake what so ever, the car will spun around just like that!
The cars turns in much faster and precised ,I was trying to do those 90 degrees turn and just let the car roll in the turns. It is so precised at the intial turn but after 3/4 through it will spun around(didnt apply brake). after a few more testing then I tied holding gas and do the same 90 degree turn, it was not as preciesed as roll in but more stable through the turns(if gas through turns the intial turning of the car pushes a little bit). Then I tried to roll in the conor then power out(around 3/4 through the turns where it start spun around when I was doing the roll in test) this time it turns in so precised and when I squeezed the trigger it just rocketed out straight.
So I think this is the way I am going to drive my car from now on! it is a lot different from both front and rear gear diff. with regular gear diff and if I power it through the cornor it will keep leaning and leaning. have to brake before the conor and gas it a little bit then graudually gas it out of the conor. But with this setup I think I could roll in the turns then gun it out!
I think it reacts pretty good but still have a little bit of a problem: when I squeeze that son of a bitch hard the car will go straight but when I let go it tends to run to the right. I did alignment last night shouldnt be the problem with alignment really dont know why, may be it's one of the two:
1. the clutch diff needs to break in
2. the road that I test the set up has those rain drainage feature like it's buckle up and slide towards the side of the street.* I think most likely the reason why it pulls to the right*
I will take it to a real track to test some more! by then I will update all of you guys!
Once again, Thanks to Manticore's help getting me the parts and his professional technical support!
11-21-2001, 04:02 PM
#603
Ah10
What weight diff oil did you put in it? Can you "feel" the clutch engage? And how fast is the car going when it engages? Can you tell if the clutch disengages when you enter a turn? I haven't installed mine yet and am trying to decide how I want to use it. I was also considering trying it up front to see how it behaves. Some of the guys I race with run their Impulses with the solid axle up front and love it.
What weight diff oil did you put in it? Can you "feel" the clutch engage? And how fast is the car going when it engages? Can you tell if the clutch disengages when you enter a turn? I haven't installed mine yet and am trying to decide how I want to use it. I was also considering trying it up front to see how it behaves. Some of the guys I race with run their Impulses with the solid axle up front and love it.
11-21-2001, 04:07 PM
#604
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
where did you buy those diffs?
11-21-2001, 05:14 PM
#605
Tech Master
Originally posted by psycho
Ah10
What weight diff oil did you put in it? Can you "feel" the clutch engage? And how fast is the car going when it engages? Can you tell if the clutch disengages when you enter a turn? I haven't installed mine yet and am trying to decide how I want to use it. I was also considering trying it up front to see how it behaves. Some of the guys I race with run their Impulses with the solid axle up front and love it.
Ah10
What weight diff oil did you put in it? Can you "feel" the clutch engage? And how fast is the car going when it engages? Can you tell if the clutch disengages when you enter a turn? I haven't installed mine yet and am trying to decide how I want to use it. I was also considering trying it up front to see how it behaves. Some of the guys I race with run their Impulses with the solid axle up front and love it.
With Manticore's advice I am using Racer's Choice #7016 Hyspin gearbox, differential and disc lubricant as diff oil, I dont know what kind of weight it equlvaent to silicon oil base diff oil but it is very loose on diff action. If I would have guessed, it probably around 5k, in fact may be less.
the clutch is very smooth, I really couldnt tell when it's engage or disengage but I know for sure it did the action both way because when I was screaming down a straight away and get ready to turns and when I made a u-wee the turning diameter is much much smaller then as if it was on stock diff, I mean much much smaller, noted I did not change any radio setting meaning I did not adjust servo travel distant and such. So that tells me the diff is working like what it supposed to do.
Speaking of engaging, I am pretty sure it works because when I exit the conor and gun it, it rockets out a straight line perfectly, since the lube I am using on this diff is fairly light wt comparing with sillicon base diff oil if the clutch didnt engage it would have fishtail or couldnt go straight or might be pulling to either side.
Speaking of the front oneway I believe it did it's magic with the rear clutch diff, since it doesnt have any drag if either side of the front wheel spins faster then the other, meaning it has some kind of diff action without and fiction!
11-21-2001, 05:15 PM
#606
Tech Master
Originally posted by stefan
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
I got my Kawahara clutch diff in H.K. a friend of mine got it for me. I havent seen it anywhere in the state, seems like US hobby shop dont like to carry Kawahara stuff
11-21-2001, 05:53 PM
#607
Originally posted by stefan
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
Castle Hobbies
Eric V.
San Jose, CA
1-408-377-3771
Ace Hobbies
J.R. or Kevin
Burlingame, CA
1-650-697-3383
SpeedtechRC
Walnut, CA
Steve W.
[email protected]
11-21-2001, 05:56 PM
#608
Tech Master
Originally posted by stefan
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
Psycho, AH10
where did you buy those diffs?
11-21-2001, 10:31 PM
#609
Guys, have a read of this about one-way/solid rears.
I had to copy + paste, because u need to be a member of RC Starting Grid to read the link :
http://www.rc-racing.com/cgi-bin/pw/...ten=1&isel=136
Good question. (althought the only bad question is an the one youdon't
ask)
If you use a solid axle, that side of the car would only want to roll
in a straight line (like a flintstone car). Once you force it into a
corner, a lot of grip is lost on both tires because they don't spin the
right speed in relation to the track. This leaves a lot less grip to
resist the cetrifugal forces and to put drive/brake force to the
ground. A solid axle (wether front or rear) will make that side resist
changing direction, and lose grip more easily in corners or under
acceleration.
Now imagine a very free diff. If you would turn into a corner the
wheels can adjust to their new speed and thus there would be hardly any
resistance to turning in. Because the wheels turn at their correct
speed, there is maximum grip available for cornering and acceleration
forces. The problem with a very free diff is that under acceleration it
will route most power to the wheel that has the least resistance. This
causes the "diffing" effect in 2wd gas cars. In some differentials you
have a friction device that counters the diffing by creating a power
transfer between the both wheels.
The one-way bearing works a little like a solid axle and a little as a
diff. As long as there is no power fron the drive train, one ways are a
loose diff. If you start driving the wheels in a straight line they act
like a solid axle. Ina corner the story is differnt though. The inside
wheel rotates slowest. This wheel will get all diving force (not taking
wheel spin into account). because only one wheel is driven, the other
wheel has all it's grip left for cornering. Once the inside wheel
starts to spin, the outside wheel will also recieve power, thus
reducing it's cornering abilities. Once the car corners less hard, the
inside wheel will get more pressure (less cornering is less chassis
roll) and thus spin less. A balance will develop where forces are
distributed between both wheels.
Now take all this theory and apply it. A 1/8th WD has a lot of power
and due to the large size foam tires also a lot of grip. Because it can
accelrate so fast it is not a problem the car is slow into the corner
because of the negative effect of the solid rear axle. Normally the
rear tires give so much grip you also want the car to lose some
traction in the rear unde acceleration. The one way front end is best
for off power steering and helps stabilise the car out of the corner.
If you'd imagine a 1/8th with two diffs, you'd probably end up with a
lot of off power steering, but only two spinning inside tires coming
out of the corners.
Now look at the narrow 1/10th car with rubber tires. If you were to
use a solid rear/one way front, you'd end up spinning the car
everywhere. This is caused because the grip of a rubber tire drasticly
reduces if it spins to fast or slow. That is the reason why two diffs
are the optimum solution. They allow the wheels to spin at their
optimum speeds. Only the diffing is a problem with this setup. That is
why the narrow 1/10th are fastest when driven smoothly. If you throw
them around and spin the wheels all the time you'll be realle
spectacular, but also real slow.
So why the solid front end. On many occasions the Impulse is a little
enthousiastic into corners. By using a solid front end, you make the
front end wanting to go straight. And in the corner you take grip away,
so when you apply too much throttle the car understeers. It is not
the "best" way to drive the wheels but on many occasions it is a good
compromise handlingwise.
If you run the Impulse with foam tires, you could try the oneway/solid
rear setup. Most of the time though you'll find the rear tires ar too
narrow and don't produce enough grip. A oneway front and an adjustable
slip diff (like the FPS or Pro diff) in the rear might be a really good
choice.
Hope this explains things
I had to copy + paste, because u need to be a member of RC Starting Grid to read the link :
http://www.rc-racing.com/cgi-bin/pw/...ten=1&isel=136
Good question. (althought the only bad question is an the one youdon't
ask)
If you use a solid axle, that side of the car would only want to roll
in a straight line (like a flintstone car). Once you force it into a
corner, a lot of grip is lost on both tires because they don't spin the
right speed in relation to the track. This leaves a lot less grip to
resist the cetrifugal forces and to put drive/brake force to the
ground. A solid axle (wether front or rear) will make that side resist
changing direction, and lose grip more easily in corners or under
acceleration.
Now imagine a very free diff. If you would turn into a corner the
wheels can adjust to their new speed and thus there would be hardly any
resistance to turning in. Because the wheels turn at their correct
speed, there is maximum grip available for cornering and acceleration
forces. The problem with a very free diff is that under acceleration it
will route most power to the wheel that has the least resistance. This
causes the "diffing" effect in 2wd gas cars. In some differentials you
have a friction device that counters the diffing by creating a power
transfer between the both wheels.
The one-way bearing works a little like a solid axle and a little as a
diff. As long as there is no power fron the drive train, one ways are a
loose diff. If you start driving the wheels in a straight line they act
like a solid axle. Ina corner the story is differnt though. The inside
wheel rotates slowest. This wheel will get all diving force (not taking
wheel spin into account). because only one wheel is driven, the other
wheel has all it's grip left for cornering. Once the inside wheel
starts to spin, the outside wheel will also recieve power, thus
reducing it's cornering abilities. Once the car corners less hard, the
inside wheel will get more pressure (less cornering is less chassis
roll) and thus spin less. A balance will develop where forces are
distributed between both wheels.
Now take all this theory and apply it. A 1/8th WD has a lot of power
and due to the large size foam tires also a lot of grip. Because it can
accelrate so fast it is not a problem the car is slow into the corner
because of the negative effect of the solid rear axle. Normally the
rear tires give so much grip you also want the car to lose some
traction in the rear unde acceleration. The one way front end is best
for off power steering and helps stabilise the car out of the corner.
If you'd imagine a 1/8th with two diffs, you'd probably end up with a
lot of off power steering, but only two spinning inside tires coming
out of the corners.
Now look at the narrow 1/10th car with rubber tires. If you were to
use a solid rear/one way front, you'd end up spinning the car
everywhere. This is caused because the grip of a rubber tire drasticly
reduces if it spins to fast or slow. That is the reason why two diffs
are the optimum solution. They allow the wheels to spin at their
optimum speeds. Only the diffing is a problem with this setup. That is
why the narrow 1/10th are fastest when driven smoothly. If you throw
them around and spin the wheels all the time you'll be realle
spectacular, but also real slow.
So why the solid front end. On many occasions the Impulse is a little
enthousiastic into corners. By using a solid front end, you make the
front end wanting to go straight. And in the corner you take grip away,
so when you apply too much throttle the car understeers. It is not
the "best" way to drive the wheels but on many occasions it is a good
compromise handlingwise.
If you run the Impulse with foam tires, you could try the oneway/solid
rear setup. Most of the time though you'll find the rear tires ar too
narrow and don't produce enough grip. A oneway front and an adjustable
slip diff (like the FPS or Pro diff) in the rear might be a really good
choice.
Hope this explains things
11-21-2001, 11:32 PM
#610
Easy now, Sydewynder! 
I don't remember who referred me to this guy, but I got my negative diff from a small importer/hobby shop. Jim is his name and he's good to deal with and very helpful. Seems like he mainly specializes in Kyosho stuff, like for the v1r, but he had a couple Kawahara Mugen items I was looking for, including the diff. [email protected] is his email, and I paid $89 for mine a couple months ago. Dunno what they sell for now.
I don't remember who referred me to this guy, but I got my negative diff from a small importer/hobby shop. Jim is his name and he's good to deal with and very helpful. Seems like he mainly specializes in Kyosho stuff, like for the v1r, but he had a couple Kawahara Mugen items I was looking for, including the diff. [email protected] is his email, and I paid $89 for mine a couple months ago. Dunno what they sell for now.
11-22-2001, 12:16 AM
#611
Tech Apprentice
psycho how do you like your kawahara negative diff? Did you notice a improvement in handling?
11-22-2001, 01:56 AM
#612
Sup Guy? I would like to thanks some of yall for help, even if i haven't post here yet, I just read what other ask. Will I got a couple questions, My front Diff is very hard to turn, turning only one of the wheels. Did I built it wrong? The diff oil is Mugen #30,000 for front, and rear is mugen #5,000. I haven't run the car yet. I finish building it about 3 weeks ago, and it's rainning and windy out here, I am waiting for a good time to break it in. thanks
11-22-2001, 02:12 AM
#613
Originally posted by Team_Akina_1
Sup Guy? I would like to thanks some of yall for help, even if i haven't post here yet, I just read what other ask. Will I got a couple questions, My front Diff is very hard to turn, turning only one of the wheels. Did I built it wrong? The diff oil is Mugen #30,000 for front, and rear is mugen #5,000. I haven't run the car yet. I finish building it about 3 weeks ago, and it's rainning and windy out here, I am waiting for a good time to break it in. thanks
Sup Guy? I would like to thanks some of yall for help, even if i haven't post here yet, I just read what other ask. Will I got a couple questions, My front Diff is very hard to turn, turning only one of the wheels. Did I built it wrong? The diff oil is Mugen #30,000 for front, and rear is mugen #5,000. I haven't run the car yet. I finish building it about 3 weeks ago, and it's rainning and windy out here, I am waiting for a good time to break it in. thanks
11-22-2001, 02:31 AM
#614
I think akina's problem is that he has not fully enclose the diff halves because of the tight hole on the first half that the screw pass over.
11-22-2001, 06:09 AM
#615
Tech Addict
Hi to all, new to this forum. Reading this thread helped me to decide on an MTX2. Alot of good info posted here. That being said, I now need some help. I am not able to get the engine properly mounted in the car. There is not enough space to slide the engine foward for proper gear mesh. The gears are 16/47 and 20/43. If anyone has dealt with this problem I would like to know your solution. Thanks, Dave.