houston

iTrader: (96)

kind of a poll here

do you guys feel that our 8th scale shocks are perfectly refined or do you feel there is room for improvement?

if there was a new shock or new parts for your existing shocks would you be interested ?


voice your thoughts and opinions on the subject and as always be cordial and civil


happy motorin',
Monty

jmaxey51

iTrader: (7)

i think they could make them more like a dirtbike style shocks, more like the front forks (the nitrogen rear shocks bikes have are out of the question and will make cost of racing go WAY up i would think), having springs and valving all inside the shock, i think it would make the buggy/truggy basically driving itself though, there would be far less crashing especially going into turns. but then it might also not be good for the hobby because that type of shocks are very complicated and hard to work on. but you wouldnt hardly have to work on them, there are to many trade offs to list between each.

as of right now, i feel like its all coming down to the shock pistons, different hole size, different amount of holes and different types of tapper pistons is really making these shocks work extremely well.

nadan805

iTrader: (8)

They need a better protecting boots. I think the current shocks soak up pretty big jumps good enough.

dragracechief

iTrader: (1)

I believe todays shock are good pieces, but are they maxed out, no way. There is always room for improvement. As long as there is compitition there will always be advancements. Its just a matter of the costs involved and if the market will bare those costs. I for one am always interested in improving my equipment but at the same time must way the costs of the improvents vs the actual performance increase.

JsK

iTrader: (10)

I guess it depends on what you mean by "perfectly refined" Monty. For a
progressive single valve system I would say that there is not really a whole
lot of room for improvement if we stay with the current archetecture. Now
there are a few things that we could try. Bypass ports could be milled into
the shock bodies or a replacable sleeve.More exotic hole styles, bypass flaps
The magnetic bump stops Tex was working could also lead to some small improvements.
All these things though rely on a progressive damping system.

Digressive damping would be a much more effective system but
is far to complicated to miniaturize for an RC shock. If you have ever seen
the valve stack out of a true quad adjustable shock its just not feasable.
We really dont even need the external adjustments but even without those
its still a complex system.

With true Digressive Speed sensative valving and travel limiters, sway bars
would become almost unnecessary or at least shrink substantialy. We could
also get rid of the 5th spring and start working on some more exotic chassis
designs.

Honestly current 1/8 scale shocks are really just one step removed from the
thing holding your screen door open , but there cheap, simple, easy to manufacture
and maintain and they work well enough to keep most people happy.

You gonna make it to Chads for Rnd 2 ?

mgtmadness2007

iTrader: (4)

IMO They are maxed out.
This is why there is tuning to do with chassis flex because the shocks and suspension and suspension/shocks geometry cannot handle all the jumps and bumps like the shocks and suspension are supposed to.
If your chassis is totally stiff and does not bend at all, these buggies and truggies cannot handle well, cause the shocksand the suspension cannot do the job it is supposed too and handle all the jumps and bumps, etc,etc.

Test your shocks and suspension by having a completely stiff chassis and adjust/tune to that. That way your shocks and suspension are doing the work they are designed to do without all that chassis flex doing some of the work.


I do not think Jason Barcia's Dirt Bike Chassis flexes and or is it a tuning option to tune with chassis flex.
The same goes for Lucas Oil Off Road Racing Series Short Course trucks, I do not think they tune with chassis flex. I think everyone wants the frame/chassis as stiff as possible so the suspension does what it is supposed to do.
Yes the frames are different. I know this.

token

Shocks and Chassis are fine. They hold up well to all the OVERSHOOTING people do. Im pretty sure all the mechanical engineers that design these things have looked at different options in shocks and placement. I believe that what they have come up with is the BEST working option out there. Is there room for improvement, definitely. These toys are NO WHERE near the same as BIKES or 1.1 cars.

mechanic77

iTrader: (13)

Couldn't of said it better myself

houston

iTrader: (96)

great inputs guys , any words from pro drivers?


the more discussion and ideas put forth means a better end product

AZRC4Me

iTrader: (8)

I'm not a pro, but...

I agree, lots of room for development but cost, size, and weight are the main constraints I see. The current shocks are not very aerodynamic and must produce a decent amount of drag at higher speeds. A flatter lying shock would seem to lower the overall CG and thus promote better handling. The reservoirs may not be able to grow much given that weight would be increased and the chassis size is fairly small, but a larger reservoir would help to keep the fluid slightly cooler over longer runs (more consistent shocks). Materials could certainly be improved, specifically the pistons and interior walls of the shock bodies, perhaps some ceramic coating? It would be really cool to have adjustable rebound and compression on the exterior of the shock like full scale racing shocks, but the mechanics involved may not be able to be scaled down and still function appropriately and consistently. There is always room for improvements

dnebout

iTrader: (32)

I would ask for a better fitting piston. Something without any flash that needs to be trimmed and perfectly round throughout the thickness of the piston which is only about 1mm. The extra pistons I received from a certain manufacturer had a bit of flash and where not perfectly round through the girth. This demanded my attention, which caused me to start sanding. If you don't sand them down, they stick. If you sand too much they allow fluid to bypass the piston and become worthless.

I would like to see an aluminum piston that is perfectly milled for the shock body. No drag and no fluid bypass! my.02

madac

iTrader: (1)

The only problem with having an aluminum piston that fit that well would be drag on the shock body causing wear on the inside that the plastic piston does as well over time but the aluminum one would cause it faster. More money for new shock bodies but if the aluminum piston had a u around the outside for an o-ring to fit in would make a better fit against the inner shock body then it would be justifiable and only allowing the shock fluid through the holes in the piston for progressive dampening.

Ei8ht

iTrader: (127)

I think that a some sort of an air spring could work.... Although I can't really come up with a design that would out weight the benefits of the added weight and stiction...

If you look at a twin chamber MX fork, our RC cars are using a dumbed down version of the inner chamber with a coil over around it. It would be cool to incorporate an air spring adjusted via an oil quantity in an outer chamber. It would add bottoming resistance and make RC suspension more progressive, but they would have to be bled...

Just a thought...

Actually, chassis flex in motocross is a very big deal and part of the reason why modern bikes handle as well as they do. Take the 97' CR250 for example, that was Honda's first AL frame and it was extremely stiff, this resulted in poor handling (not to mention terrible vibration!). Current bikes have more chassis flex that you would think, along with handle bars, forks , triple clamps, steering stems, and swing arms. It's quite amazing the engineering and thought just put into chassis flex, it's far more advanced than on our RC cars...

Just off the top of my head, examples include:
Yamaha reduces thickness of fork tubes to feed in more flex
Yamaha designs new swingarm that increases torsional flex
Yamaha machines triple clamps and changes thickness/shape of steering stem to allow for more flex
Kawasaki adds spacers and longer bolts to motor mounts to feed flex to front down tube

Next time you are near a bike with pro taper style bars, push and pull on them, you can visibly see them flex...

There are a ton more and OEMs are always trying to figure out the best blend of flex and ridgity...so, yes Justin Barcia's CRF250 is flexing like crazy!

houston

iTrader: (96)

Awesome, keep thoughts coming