lst2 or revo??
02-25-2006, 11:53 AM
#91
I can't see how you read any of that in my post.
Roar rules dictate that ALL MT's run together, unless there is enough drivers to seperate them out. That is just one step away from being a combined class. If you think that the MT and 1/8th arena classes won't be combined when all the trucks turn similar lap times, I believe you are mistaken. Fewer classes mean shorter race days, not to mention less hassle. It's inevitable, providing that I'm right in that the new (and upgraded) Revo turns similar lap times as a truggy. Get it? They are almost in the same class already, were run in the same class before - only got seperated out last year - and might end up getting thrown back together again. Why would you bring up two classes that have never ran together and make a comparison to this situation??? that is non sensical.
And, one more time since you missed it before, we are not talking about just my truck. This involves all MT's.
And my beef IS with Traxxas and/or RC Pro series. The new rules went into effect only because of the ugrades to the Revo. I do not believe in coincidences that large.
Look, if I am wrong, and the new Revo with the updates isn't as fast as a truggy (and you certainly haven't denied that possibility) then the whole point is moot. However, if I am right, then logic would dictate combining the classes. They used to run together, then they were seperated to level the playing field. If that seperation turns out to not have been needed, I beleive they will get thrown back together again. That situation would have nothing to do my truck. Nothing whatsoever.
So you suggest that other trucks follow suit, and come up with similar upgrades. That is certainly one possible answer. I do not think it is the best one however. I have no wish to enter into some kind of 'hop up war.' That would get tedious. Not to mention hard on the wallet.
No, I believe that it is inevitable that the MT class will transform into a single group, with the current situation the way it is.
Roar rules dictate that ALL MT's run together, unless there is enough drivers to seperate them out. That is just one step away from being a combined class. If you think that the MT and 1/8th arena classes won't be combined when all the trucks turn similar lap times, I believe you are mistaken. Fewer classes mean shorter race days, not to mention less hassle. It's inevitable, providing that I'm right in that the new (and upgraded) Revo turns similar lap times as a truggy. Get it? They are almost in the same class already, were run in the same class before - only got seperated out last year - and might end up getting thrown back together again. Why would you bring up two classes that have never ran together and make a comparison to this situation??? that is non sensical.
And, one more time since you missed it before, we are not talking about just my truck. This involves all MT's.
And my beef IS with Traxxas and/or RC Pro series. The new rules went into effect only because of the ugrades to the Revo. I do not believe in coincidences that large.
Look, if I am wrong, and the new Revo with the updates isn't as fast as a truggy (and you certainly haven't denied that possibility) then the whole point is moot. However, if I am right, then logic would dictate combining the classes. They used to run together, then they were seperated to level the playing field. If that seperation turns out to not have been needed, I beleive they will get thrown back together again. That situation would have nothing to do my truck. Nothing whatsoever.
So you suggest that other trucks follow suit, and come up with similar upgrades. That is certainly one possible answer. I do not think it is the best one however. I have no wish to enter into some kind of 'hop up war.' That would get tedious. Not to mention hard on the wallet.
No, I believe that it is inevitable that the MT class will transform into a single group, with the current situation the way it is.
02-25-2006, 12:14 PM
#92
Originally Posted by LSTracerX
I can't see how you read any of that in my post.
Roar rules dictate that ALL MT's run together, unless there is enough drivers to seperate them out. That is just one step away from being a combined class. If you think that the MT and 1/8th arena classes won't be combined when all the trucks turn similar lap times, I believe you are mistaken. Fewer classes mean shorter race days, not to mention less hassle. It's inevitable, providing that I'm right in that the new (and upgraded) Revo turns similar lap times as a truggy. Get it? They are almost in the same class already, were run in the same class before - only got seperated out last year - and might end up getting thrown back together again. Why would you bring up two classes that have never ran together and make a comparison to this situation??? that is non sensical.
And, one more time since you missed it before, we are not talking about just my truck. This involves all MT's.
And my beef IS with Traxxas and/or RC Pro series. The new rules went into effect only because of the ugrades to the Revo. I do not believe in coincidences that large.
Look, if I am wrong, and the new Revo with the updates isn't as fast as a truggy (and you certainly haven't denied that possibility) then the whole point is moot. However, if I am right, then logic would dictate combining the classes. They used to run together, then they were seperated to level the playing field. If that seperation turns out to not have been needed, I beleive they will get thrown back together again. That situation would have nothing to do my truck. Nothing whatsoever.
So you suggest that other trucks follow suit, and come up with similar upgrades. That is certainly one possible answer. I do not think it is the best one however. I have no wish to enter into some kind of 'hop up war.' That would get tedious. Not to mention hard on the wallet.
No, I believe that it is inevitable that the MT class will transform into a single group, with the current situation the way it is.
Roar rules dictate that ALL MT's run together, unless there is enough drivers to seperate them out. That is just one step away from being a combined class. If you think that the MT and 1/8th arena classes won't be combined when all the trucks turn similar lap times, I believe you are mistaken. Fewer classes mean shorter race days, not to mention less hassle. It's inevitable, providing that I'm right in that the new (and upgraded) Revo turns similar lap times as a truggy. Get it? They are almost in the same class already, were run in the same class before - only got seperated out last year - and might end up getting thrown back together again. Why would you bring up two classes that have never ran together and make a comparison to this situation??? that is non sensical.
And, one more time since you missed it before, we are not talking about just my truck. This involves all MT's.
And my beef IS with Traxxas and/or RC Pro series. The new rules went into effect only because of the ugrades to the Revo. I do not believe in coincidences that large.
Look, if I am wrong, and the new Revo with the updates isn't as fast as a truggy (and you certainly haven't denied that possibility) then the whole point is moot. However, if I am right, then logic would dictate combining the classes. They used to run together, then they were seperated to level the playing field. If that seperation turns out to not have been needed, I beleive they will get thrown back together again. That situation would have nothing to do my truck. Nothing whatsoever.
So you suggest that other trucks follow suit, and come up with similar upgrades. That is certainly one possible answer. I do not think it is the best one however. I have no wish to enter into some kind of 'hop up war.' That would get tedious. Not to mention hard on the wallet.
No, I believe that it is inevitable that the MT class will transform into a single group, with the current situation the way it is.
your wrong
they will NOT be combined if what you say is true then why havent the elec. classes been melded to gether then?
a mod truck can get around a track as fast or faster than a XXXNT so does that mean we should combine them?
the reason they were run together is because there were no rules stating what is a MT and what is a AT,now there are rules defining the 2
now you hear of the AT's turning very similar tiomes as the buggy's should we combine them? they are more alike with them than the SMT's anyway so lets combine them together?
so what if it turns similar lap times it has to fall within a certain criteria in oirder to compete in the class,engine higher than 1.5in off the deck than it's a MT lower it's a AT. get it?
the simple fact is just because it runs similar lap times means squat it is a MT not a truggy,maybe your track wans to run them together to save time but at a ROAR event or a PRO SERIES event they will be seperated.
and again the rules were being discussed BEFORE traxxas announced anything no one knew traxxas was getting ready to do this,i gotta say this is one of thee best kept secrets ive seen in awhile.
before the revo was released the internet was abuzz wondering about it,with this one?NOTHING
heres an example
you and your buddy get LST's,you race a few times and oyur neck and neck.
so one of you decides to go out and buy a motor,then you start one upping each other from there.
thts how it goes with racing the one uppance never stops it keeps going and going.
now from your comments you want that to stop beause they are getting too fast??? thats non sensical
BTW- the revo isnt the only one with a center diff in the tranny and trust me they wont be last
it almost seems like your beef is the fact that this company has brought a center diff to market and yours hasnt.you keep saying traxxas why dont you roll cen into your arguement also? they had one before traxxas wht no beef with them?
02-25-2006, 11:23 PM
#93
Well, I'm sorry, you lost me. Too many incomplete sentances, and too many fragmented objectives.
Something about electric classes that have never in the past been combined, being compared to the MT classes that were, at one time combined.
"9.4.4.2 Definition: Monster Trucks are vehicles which measure a minimum of 1.5" inches from
the lowest point of the chassis to the lowest point of the engine along the front-back
centerline when compressed (usually the "skid plates"). This is verified by removing the
wheels, placing the vehicle on a flat surface, compressing the vehicle’s suspension fully,
and measuring from the flat surface to the underside of the engine using a 1.5" gauge or
caliper.
9.4.4.3 All Monster Trucks will race together unless sufficient entries warrant splitting the entrants
according to the specifications in the above table."
ALL MT's will be combined unless there are sufficient entries to warrant a separation of classes. This is what I am talking about. Ignoring this, and getting mad about it does nothing to solve the problem.
Please, I would love to continue this discussion, this needs to be aired out. But really you must start making more sense.
Something about electric classes that have never in the past been combined, being compared to the MT classes that were, at one time combined.
"9.4.4.2 Definition: Monster Trucks are vehicles which measure a minimum of 1.5" inches from
the lowest point of the chassis to the lowest point of the engine along the front-back
centerline when compressed (usually the "skid plates"). This is verified by removing the
wheels, placing the vehicle on a flat surface, compressing the vehicle’s suspension fully,
and measuring from the flat surface to the underside of the engine using a 1.5" gauge or
caliper.
9.4.4.3 All Monster Trucks will race together unless sufficient entries warrant splitting the entrants
according to the specifications in the above table."
ALL MT's will be combined unless there are sufficient entries to warrant a separation of classes. This is what I am talking about. Ignoring this, and getting mad about it does nothing to solve the problem.
Please, I would love to continue this discussion, this needs to be aired out. But really you must start making more sense.
02-26-2006, 07:55 AM
#94
what do you think the classes were born seperated?
they are not imcomplete sentences,they are counterpoints to your argument
the only reason they were ever put together is because there was NO DEFENITION OF THE CLASSES which we have now
electric:
ONROAD TC
at our track and at several big events last year a big deal was made of the stock class being 1 sec off the pace of 19T.
but yet there was no mention of combining the classes to make the race day shorter or to shut certain company's out.
im not mad or upset just thought i was arguing a point,the rules you have quoted are biased how? how has it seperated the revo from the pack?
you know i keep asking you and all you say is they worked together to put one maker above the rest,where is it said that the other company's are not allowed to do what traxxas has done?
and what about CEN? they are the ones that started the center diff in the tranny were they in on it also?
email traxxas or people in the know about what the center diff will do
1. when running a BB it mellows out the initial blow of the power to put be able to pull the trigger hard coming off the corner without it pulling wheelies down the straight.
2. why rear brake? when running a "oneway" you lose fr. brakes this was brought aboput to fix that.
3. this is NOT a traditional center diff and it wont act like it either not with 100k in it
again your argument is coming across that you dont think it is fair for one company to do this,why are they the only ones allowed to do it?
if they were then i would be right there with you but they arent they are only one of two WILLING to do it.
the truggy's will not be allowed to run in the MT class because they fail to qualify with the rules you posted,and if im not mistaken the revo cant run in AT because it is a 2 speed.not to mention the fact that it fails a big part of the whole class its 1/10th not a 1/8th.
even if the revo is turning as quick a lap times they will not combine the classes,why did they split them up in the first place then?would have been easier for them to leave them all together.
racing is follow the leader,whenever someone is winning with a certain tyope of equipment the natural thing to do is buy it and see if it works for you.
the #1 reason why traxxas and CEN are doing the things they are and coming out with the products they are is THEY HAVE A FACTORY RACE TEAM,sure there are sponsored racers that race other vehicles but no other manu. has a factory race team if they did you would see a hell of a lot more stuff coming for the savage,lst all of them.
they are not imcomplete sentences,they are counterpoints to your argument
the only reason they were ever put together is because there was NO DEFENITION OF THE CLASSES which we have now
electric:
ONROAD TC
at our track and at several big events last year a big deal was made of the stock class being 1 sec off the pace of 19T.
but yet there was no mention of combining the classes to make the race day shorter or to shut certain company's out.
im not mad or upset just thought i was arguing a point,the rules you have quoted are biased how? how has it seperated the revo from the pack?
you know i keep asking you and all you say is they worked together to put one maker above the rest,where is it said that the other company's are not allowed to do what traxxas has done?
and what about CEN? they are the ones that started the center diff in the tranny were they in on it also?
email traxxas or people in the know about what the center diff will do
1. when running a BB it mellows out the initial blow of the power to put be able to pull the trigger hard coming off the corner without it pulling wheelies down the straight.
2. why rear brake? when running a "oneway" you lose fr. brakes this was brought aboput to fix that.
3. this is NOT a traditional center diff and it wont act like it either not with 100k in it
again your argument is coming across that you dont think it is fair for one company to do this,why are they the only ones allowed to do it?
if they were then i would be right there with you but they arent they are only one of two WILLING to do it.
the truggy's will not be allowed to run in the MT class because they fail to qualify with the rules you posted,and if im not mistaken the revo cant run in AT because it is a 2 speed.not to mention the fact that it fails a big part of the whole class its 1/10th not a 1/8th.
even if the revo is turning as quick a lap times they will not combine the classes,why did they split them up in the first place then?would have been easier for them to leave them all together.
racing is follow the leader,whenever someone is winning with a certain tyope of equipment the natural thing to do is buy it and see if it works for you.
the #1 reason why traxxas and CEN are doing the things they are and coming out with the products they are is THEY HAVE A FACTORY RACE TEAM,sure there are sponsored racers that race other vehicles but no other manu. has a factory race team if they did you would see a hell of a lot more stuff coming for the savage,lst all of them.
02-26-2006, 11:22 AM
#95
Why do you keep bringing up electric classes? How can they possibly have anything to do with bringing back a single MT class? I guess I will just have to ignore that.
The reason Truggies first ran with MT's is that there was no where else to put them, and they are too popular not to allow them to race. When they proved to be much faster around the track, they were given their own class. If the truggies were only just now showing up, there very well may never have been a seperate 1/8th scale Arena Truck class (provided that the Revo can keep up as I have stated before).
Again, a little hard to understand what exactly you are asking here... First, who is the 'they' you are speaking of? And when did I ever say that one company was not allowed to do what Traxxas has done? In fact, what I said was that having a 'hop up war' to make any class vehicle more easily drivable, and therefore making great strides in decreasing lap times, was very undesireable. My preference would be STOCK and MODIFIED. No in betweens. That would be the coolest.
This is what is happening, and you seem to be hopefull that it will continue. Maybe you make a large 6 figure salary and can afford to buy a new truck every season, as well as every single upgrade available. I do not, and so I do not wish to see this continue.
Sorry, you are mistaken. Steve Slayden ran his mostly stock Revo with the unlimiteds last year and placed 17th in the nationals!!! When he gets the new Revo with the upgrades, he'll probably get into the A-main. No distinction is made between 1/10 and 1/8th. Besides, the Revo is closer to 1/9th, and with the extended chassis, it's pretty much an 1/8th scale. The rules I posted were for ROAR, and it specifically states that 'ALL MT"S WILL RUN TOGETHER' unless there are enough entrants to justify splitting the classes into BB, SB and UMT. RC Pro does not split BB or SB :
RC Pro also does not split out 1/10 and 1/8th scale, they use minimum length/width rules
They were seperated because all the Revo drivers were crying FOUL at having to run with faster trucks. Had the playing field been equal, or the Revo's proven to be slightly faster, there never would have been a seperation in the first place, nor would the truggies be very popular.
And this brings me back to my point, that if the Revos (90% or more of the MT entrants) turn as fast or faster lap times than the Arena Trucks, there will be no reason not to recombine them (no reason to bring up two different electric classes that have never been combined as some kind of allegorical reference to why it wont happen. I don't understand the logic behind that reasoning).
You want biased? OK, here's biased:
This makes the LST an illegal truck. The STOCK FUEL TANK for an LST2 is 220. The LST1 is 171 (when you count fuel tubing and a filter, it puts you just over 175) I have no idea if I even want to try to modify things to make it work. How many other MT's have tank sizes larger than 175? Don't you think that is biased? OR: You don't think that a rule change being implemented within days of the announced release of a new version of a truck- rules that specifically address key changes to said truck - is biased?
Stock, or Modified. That is how the classes need to be seperated.
The reason Truggies first ran with MT's is that there was no where else to put them, and they are too popular not to allow them to race. When they proved to be much faster around the track, they were given their own class. If the truggies were only just now showing up, there very well may never have been a seperate 1/8th scale Arena Truck class (provided that the Revo can keep up as I have stated before).
you know i keep asking you and all you say is they worked together to put one maker above the rest,where is it said that the other company's are not allowed to do what traxxas has done?
This is what is happening, and you seem to be hopefull that it will continue. Maybe you make a large 6 figure salary and can afford to buy a new truck every season, as well as every single upgrade available. I do not, and so I do not wish to see this continue.
the truggy's will not be allowed to run in the MT class because they fail to qualify with the rules you posted,and if im not mistaken the revo cant run in AT because it is a 2 speed.not to mention the fact that it fails a big part of the whole class its 1/10th not a 1/8th.
1. All Standard MT's will run in the same class. Big block/small block is no longer an issue, larger displacement engines have a heavier minimum weight to compensate.
even if the revo is turning as quick a lap times they will not combine the classes,why did they split them up in the first place then?would have been easier for them to leave them all together.
And this brings me back to my point, that if the Revos (90% or more of the MT entrants) turn as fast or faster lap times than the Arena Trucks, there will be no reason not to recombine them (no reason to bring up two different electric classes that have never been combined as some kind of allegorical reference to why it wont happen. I don't understand the logic behind that reasoning).
im not mad or upset just thought i was arguing a point,the rules you have quoted are biased how? how has it seperated the revo from the pack?
Fuel Tank Volume Rule ----------------- Based on motor size. .20999 or less will be limited to a maximum of 150mililitres ------------- .21 and over is limited to a maximum of 175mililitres. This includes fuel line from tank to carb and filter(s).
Stock, or Modified. That is how the classes need to be seperated.
02-26-2006, 12:34 PM
#96
The rules aren't really helping the MT genre, that's for sure. The 1.5 inch rule is a joke TBH and on top of that, you have the fuel tank capacities that penalise certain well known trucks. Imagine the scene if new 'rules' made the Revo underweight, or if engines under .21 were no longer legal for racing!!
Classes should be: Stock MT, Modified MT......and Truggy. Definition of Truggy: any Truck based on a 1/8th buggy style chassis design, regardless of centre diff, multi-speed or solid.
Engine sizes: Any commercially available .15 - .32 No blueprinted engines. Cap the engine sizes now!
Max Fuel Capacity: 225ml Cap the fuel capacities now!
Wheels/Tyres: Only commercially available MT wheels and tyres - no buggy rims/intermediate sizes or cut-down tyres, 40 size being the largest permissable. Cap the min/max wheel tyre sizes now!
Minimum weight: 9.5lb
Maximum weight: 13.5lb - cap min/max weights now!
Dimensions - set to allow current smallest and largest nitro MT designs. Cap the dimensions now!
Hopefully future rules will allow the MT class to develop, without resorting to all MT's becoming Truggies.
If one manufacturer happens to have a design that dominates in Stock MT, Modified MT or Truggy - so be it. Once decent, fair and proper rules are set, all the manufacturers will have something to work too and we as racers will be able to choose our preferred class of racing without feeling cheated or coerced. And if you think about it, manufacturers must obviously be aware of the fact that more consumers own MT's than Truggies. Rules that spoil things for people that want to race MT's, either by allowing Truggies to trump everything or exhibiting 'favouritism' to one particular company isn't good for any of these manufacturers' existing client bases.
If you want to be really cynical though, imagine this: manufacturers sell loads of MT's and saturate the market. Truggy conversions are introduced but hardly set things on fire. Truggy kits become available. Rules are introduced that are biased towards Truggy. Result - Truggy sales increase.
Classes should be: Stock MT, Modified MT......and Truggy. Definition of Truggy: any Truck based on a 1/8th buggy style chassis design, regardless of centre diff, multi-speed or solid.
Engine sizes: Any commercially available .15 - .32 No blueprinted engines. Cap the engine sizes now!
Max Fuel Capacity: 225ml Cap the fuel capacities now!
Wheels/Tyres: Only commercially available MT wheels and tyres - no buggy rims/intermediate sizes or cut-down tyres, 40 size being the largest permissable. Cap the min/max wheel tyre sizes now!
Minimum weight: 9.5lb
Maximum weight: 13.5lb - cap min/max weights now!
Dimensions - set to allow current smallest and largest nitro MT designs. Cap the dimensions now!
Hopefully future rules will allow the MT class to develop, without resorting to all MT's becoming Truggies.
If one manufacturer happens to have a design that dominates in Stock MT, Modified MT or Truggy - so be it. Once decent, fair and proper rules are set, all the manufacturers will have something to work too and we as racers will be able to choose our preferred class of racing without feeling cheated or coerced. And if you think about it, manufacturers must obviously be aware of the fact that more consumers own MT's than Truggies. Rules that spoil things for people that want to race MT's, either by allowing Truggies to trump everything or exhibiting 'favouritism' to one particular company isn't good for any of these manufacturers' existing client bases.
If you want to be really cynical though, imagine this: manufacturers sell loads of MT's and saturate the market. Truggy conversions are introduced but hardly set things on fire. Truggy kits become available. Rules are introduced that are biased towards Truggy. Result - Truggy sales increase.
02-26-2006, 05:03 PM
#97
o.k. for the record, the term big BLOCK and small BLOCK is for the size of the actual block (crankcase). its pretty much mounting dimensions that matter. if you put a normal big clock next to any small blocks or "mid blocks" (picco started it with the .21 that drops into the t-maxx) youll notice the difference. the 3.3 is probably a mid block. or. traxxas bored their 2.5's to the brink and .20 was as far as they could go. seing as every1 is arguing about how the revo is going to be as fast as truggies, whats probably going to happen is the new engine is going to royaly suck (no big deal just swap it for a quality engine) or the center diff idea is gonna suck (maybe itll blow every 12 seconds.....). i never did like the idea of traxxas's plastic telescoping shafts and that could be a problem too. meaning an already 500+ dollar truck will be racking up required hop-ups, which includes a radio (so racers wont be happy). as for rules.... the fuel capacity shouldnt be capped, it should be run time. or just set scheduled stops.... a truck should only run so long on one tank of gas. and if you have a heavy truck just hit the revo and it should send it in all different directions.......if they want to pack so much power into the lighter trucks see if they can handle all of it 
rule changes right before a new version of a truck comes out that applies to that truck is very suspicous......just because traxxas didnt say anything to the consumer and dealers doesnt mean they didnt say anything to the race orginizations. i dont really like to think that but people do seem biased towards traxxas (ie r/c car action, those awards are bs) kinda seems like they are on the payroll to help traxxas sales. like i said i dont like to think that but thats what it seems like is happening. i dont think the majority of consumers would let traxxas gain a monopoly. even traxxas fans wouldnt like it IMO.
rule changes right before a new version of a truck comes out that applies to that truck is very suspicous......just because traxxas didnt say anything to the consumer and dealers doesnt mean they didnt say anything to the race orginizations. i dont really like to think that but people do seem biased towards traxxas (ie r/c car action, those awards are bs) kinda seems like they are on the payroll to help traxxas sales. like i said i dont like to think that but thats what it seems like is happening. i dont think the majority of consumers would let traxxas gain a monopoly. even traxxas fans wouldnt like it IMO.
02-26-2006, 11:27 PM
#99
Originally Posted by LSTracerX
Why do you keep bringing up electric classes? How can they possibly have anything to do with bringing back a single MT class? I guess I will just have to ignore that.
The reason Truggies first ran with MT's is that there was no where else to put them, and they are too popular not to allow them to race. When they proved to be much faster around the track, they were given their own class. If the truggies were only just now showing up, there very well may never have been a seperate 1/8th scale Arena Truck class (provided that the Revo can keep up as I have stated before).
Again, a little hard to understand what exactly you are asking here... First, who is the 'they' you are speaking of? And when did I ever say that one company was not allowed to do what Traxxas has done? In fact, what I said was that having a 'hop up war' to make any class vehicle more easily drivable, and therefore making great strides in decreasing lap times, was very undesireable. My preference would be STOCK and MODIFIED. No in betweens. That would be the coolest.
This is what is happening, and you seem to be hopefull that it will continue. Maybe you make a large 6 figure salary and can afford to buy a new truck every season, as well as every single upgrade available. I do not, and so I do not wish to see this continue.
Sorry, you are mistaken. Steve Slayden ran his mostly stock Revo with the unlimiteds last year and placed 17th in the nationals!!! When he gets the new Revo with the upgrades, he'll probably get into the A-main. No distinction is made between 1/10 and 1/8th. Besides, the Revo is closer to 1/9th, and with the extended chassis, it's pretty much an 1/8th scale. The rules I posted were for ROAR, and it specifically states that 'ALL MT"S WILL RUN TOGETHER' unless there are enough entrants to justify splitting the classes into BB, SB and UMT. RC Pro does not split BB or SB : RC Pro also does not split out 1/10 and 1/8th scale, they use minimum length/width rules
They were seperated because all the Revo drivers were crying FOUL at having to run with faster trucks. Had the playing field been equal, or the Revo's proven to be slightly faster, there never would have been a seperation in the first place, nor would the truggies be very popular.
And this brings me back to my point, that if the Revos (90% or more of the MT entrants) turn as fast or faster lap times than the Arena Trucks, there will be no reason not to recombine them (no reason to bring up two different electric classes that have never been combined as some kind of allegorical reference to why it wont happen. I don't understand the logic behind that reasoning).
You want biased? OK, here's biased:
This makes the LST an illegal truck. The STOCK FUEL TANK for an LST2 is 220. The LST1 is 171 (when you count fuel tubing and a filter, it puts you just over 175) I have no idea if I even want to try to modify things to make it work. How many other MT's have tank sizes larger than 175? Don't you think that is biased? OR: You don't think that a rule change being implemented within days of the announced release of a new version of a truck- rules that specifically address key changes to said truck - is biased?
Stock, or Modified. That is how the classes need to be seperated.
The reason Truggies first ran with MT's is that there was no where else to put them, and they are too popular not to allow them to race. When they proved to be much faster around the track, they were given their own class. If the truggies were only just now showing up, there very well may never have been a seperate 1/8th scale Arena Truck class (provided that the Revo can keep up as I have stated before).
Again, a little hard to understand what exactly you are asking here... First, who is the 'they' you are speaking of? And when did I ever say that one company was not allowed to do what Traxxas has done? In fact, what I said was that having a 'hop up war' to make any class vehicle more easily drivable, and therefore making great strides in decreasing lap times, was very undesireable. My preference would be STOCK and MODIFIED. No in betweens. That would be the coolest.
This is what is happening, and you seem to be hopefull that it will continue. Maybe you make a large 6 figure salary and can afford to buy a new truck every season, as well as every single upgrade available. I do not, and so I do not wish to see this continue.
Sorry, you are mistaken. Steve Slayden ran his mostly stock Revo with the unlimiteds last year and placed 17th in the nationals!!! When he gets the new Revo with the upgrades, he'll probably get into the A-main. No distinction is made between 1/10 and 1/8th. Besides, the Revo is closer to 1/9th, and with the extended chassis, it's pretty much an 1/8th scale. The rules I posted were for ROAR, and it specifically states that 'ALL MT"S WILL RUN TOGETHER' unless there are enough entrants to justify splitting the classes into BB, SB and UMT. RC Pro does not split BB or SB : RC Pro also does not split out 1/10 and 1/8th scale, they use minimum length/width rules
They were seperated because all the Revo drivers were crying FOUL at having to run with faster trucks. Had the playing field been equal, or the Revo's proven to be slightly faster, there never would have been a seperation in the first place, nor would the truggies be very popular.
And this brings me back to my point, that if the Revos (90% or more of the MT entrants) turn as fast or faster lap times than the Arena Trucks, there will be no reason not to recombine them (no reason to bring up two different electric classes that have never been combined as some kind of allegorical reference to why it wont happen. I don't understand the logic behind that reasoning).
You want biased? OK, here's biased:
This makes the LST an illegal truck. The STOCK FUEL TANK for an LST2 is 220. The LST1 is 171 (when you count fuel tubing and a filter, it puts you just over 175) I have no idea if I even want to try to modify things to make it work. How many other MT's have tank sizes larger than 175? Don't you think that is biased? OR: You don't think that a rule change being implemented within days of the announced release of a new version of a truck- rules that specifically address key changes to said truck - is biased?
Stock, or Modified. That is how the classes need to be seperated.
why would they lump them together if they arent in the elec classes? it was an example of what you were saying that they run so close they will end up lumping them all together in the future.
they were NOT given thier own class because they were faster,they were given thier own class because they are a different truck!
they=traxxas and the pro series your word not mine you lumped them together
i would have no issue with stock and mod,only one problem....thats not the way it was set up.
hop up war??????
have you been to a real race? even club races its all about the hop up war
i had over $1000 in my LST that i raced that wasnt a hop up war that was race ready! why buy a new truck? fix yours up to compete by your logic dodge should drop thier nextel cup program and adopt chevy's
thats non-sensicalthey were not seperated because of that they were seperated because they were two different platforms and one was a "hybrid" at the time.
and why did slayden run with the UMT's???
because he wanted to,and thats not the same truck he ran against the SMT's it was a purpose built truck for the UMT class(longer chassis,arms P5 power)
if that was a ROAR race it was because the rules were not out yet,he will not be able to run AT this year because he has a MT as defined bty the rules now.
your asking why they wont be combined and i answered you,but here ya go THEY ARE TWO DIFFERENT CLASSES
my point is in elec. they ARE the same just diff. motors,in MT they are different scale and platform.say what you want about scale i agree with oyu it isnt true BUT it is what they use to define it.
how is it biased?
at the time the rules were made the LST had the largest tank at 171cc then the LST2 came out and upped it to 220cc im sure when the next round of revisions come through it will be covered.
BTW to get under the limit you will need to take like 4mm of fuel line off,as for modding the other tank they will have you put some fuel line in the tank to take up the space,now if this hop up is too much then racing isnt for you.
02-26-2006, 11:32 PM
#100
Originally Posted by dracy69
rule changes right before a new version of a truck comes out that applies to that truck is very suspicous......
1.just because you have never heard of it doesnt mean it wasnt being discussed(the center diff was actually being bought off ebay and NO ONE had any idea traxxas was considering this)the issue was asked of the rc pro series by someone other than traxxas do a little research then make accusations.
2. the best part? traxxas isnt the one that started it
CEN was.
02-27-2006, 07:31 AM
#101
Is that the Nemesis, that comes stock with the .46 (illegal) mill and the 220ml (illegal) tank?
And since you know so much more about this, perhaps you'll enlighten us as to how this came about?
Besides, I never actually made any accusations, I just pointed out what I thought was a coincidence that was more than a little odd. OK, it was a backhanded accusation. Keep in mind, if I was CEO at Traxxas, I would have done the same thing. But getting the rules changed to ensure their truck fits in a particular class does not enhance competition, or look like good sportsmanship. It does, however, make good business sense.
And since you know so much more about this, perhaps you'll enlighten us as to how this came about?
Besides, I never actually made any accusations, I just pointed out what I thought was a coincidence that was more than a little odd. OK, it was a backhanded accusation. Keep in mind, if I was CEO at Traxxas, I would have done the same thing. But getting the rules changed to ensure their truck fits in a particular class does not enhance competition, or look like good sportsmanship. It does, however, make good business sense.
02-27-2006, 04:24 PM
#102
Originally Posted by LSTracerX
Is that the Nemesis, that comes stock with the .46 (illegal) mill and the 220ml (illegal) tank?
And since you know so much more about this, perhaps you'll enlighten us as to how this came about?
Besides, I never actually made any accusations, I just pointed out what I thought was a coincidence that was more than a little odd. OK, it was a backhanded accusation. Keep in mind, if I was CEO at Traxxas, I would have done the same thing. But getting the rules changed to ensure their truck fits in a particular class does not enhance competition, or look like good sportsmanship. It does, however, make good business sense.
And since you know so much more about this, perhaps you'll enlighten us as to how this came about?
Besides, I never actually made any accusations, I just pointed out what I thought was a coincidence that was more than a little odd. OK, it was a backhanded accusation. Keep in mind, if I was CEO at Traxxas, I would have done the same thing. But getting the rules changed to ensure their truck fits in a particular class does not enhance competition, or look like good sportsmanship. It does, however, make good business sense.
i told you,racers were looking for a way to absorb the "shock" of the BB in a revo a guy on ebay started selling them then someone asked the pro series if it would be allowed they reveiwed it and made rules accordingly.
NO ONE knew traxxas was doing this,it was suspected but no one knew.
but i do know one thing this was not a conversation started by traxxas to work with the pro series.
02-27-2006, 05:58 PM
#104
Originally Posted by stevenmichael
actually i believe it is called the genesis,but yes that is the one.
i told you,racers were looking for a way to absorb the "shock" of the BB in a revo a guy on ebay started selling them then someone asked the pro series if it would be allowed they reveiwed it and made rules accordingly.
NO ONE knew traxxas was doing this,it was suspected but no one knew.
but i do know one thing this was not a conversation started by traxxas to work with the pro series.
i told you,racers were looking for a way to absorb the "shock" of the BB in a revo a guy on ebay started selling them then someone asked the pro series if it would be allowed they reveiwed it and made rules accordingly.
NO ONE knew traxxas was doing this,it was suspected but no one knew.
but i do know one thing this was not a conversation started by traxxas to work with the pro series.
Look, only time will tell if I am right or wrong. I want an MT class where the idea is to improve driver skill, rather than having a constant upgrade war. Driver skill is 80% of a win (or loss!) but I fear that constant engineering upgrades is decreasing that ratio to unacceptable levels. That is why the Stock/Modified seperation appeals to me. The fact that many stock trucks are eliminated from competition is one reason I feel the rules are biased.
To reiterate: The timing of the rule addition may be too coincidental to be taken as such, and the current rules are slightly biased towards the Revo (IMO)for the reasons stated previously. And, the current direction the rules are taking may lead to a convergance of the MT classes (again, IMO).
Perhaps we can just agree to disagree on those two theories?
03-07-2006, 04:17 PM
#105
you know i wasnt to impressed with the lst2 but after seeing all the specs on it its a great truck but i still like the revo a lilttle bit more!anyone driven the new one yet (with better suspenion)?!?!?!