Indoor season 2011-2012
02-16-2012, 09:17 AM
#181
This issue is not going to be resolved on this thread. A dozen or so have strong opinions and have voiced them here, on any given night there are 50+ racers in the house and all voices should be heard. I would suggest the the following. We print up a survey that must be filled out, before your allowed to register, indicating your preference on how to address this issue. Choices can include, Leave it alone, start earlier, split the classes and start times, drop a qualifier or any other solution someone might have. This is the only way the board can get a consensus on where the majority of racers fall. The onroad racers would be asked for their input also. This could be done this weekend or the last weekend of the month, prior to the next board meeting. It is in the clubs best interest to listen to the racers and address this to the satisfaction of the masses.
02-16-2012, 09:23 AM
#182
Here is my reply to a PM I anwsered:
I see the problem and it is not new. We used to start at 6pm until you brought this same subject up last year or the year before and the start time was moved to 5pm. Which I was not against.
I see several problems with splitting up Saturdays.
1) When will the first session start and more importantly end.
2) The race director will have to run both programs for the same amount of pay but work twice as long.
3) One or the other program will become dominate and will split the club against each other like onroad vs offroad is now.
4) The second session guys will still end late.
My biggest concern is number 3. This is how we lost our onroad program years ago. The offroad became dominate and everything was catered to them - so the onroad guys finally left and most are still very bitter to this day.
Regarding Number 1 - what if the first session gets a big turn out and runs late - infringing on the second session?
If we were to split the day - I think you have to include all classes and class levels in each session. Which may mean eliminating one of the class levels, in order to have enough to fill the classes. Example eliminate super only offering Open and Sportsman -- or -- eliminate sportsman and only offer Super and Open.
We have a simple supply and demand problem - we need to increase the supply. I believe one way is to offer a weeknight program or even two nights. Although I agree some of the same concerns I have about splitting Saturdays could apply to weeknight races.
It is not an easy problem to fix - but we should all be willing to listen and think about the best options for the club as a whole, so we can continue to enjoy our hobby. Being closed minded and/or just trying to look out for ones own interests is not going to solve anything - and this two will divide the club.
I see the problem and it is not new. We used to start at 6pm until you brought this same subject up last year or the year before and the start time was moved to 5pm. Which I was not against.
I see several problems with splitting up Saturdays.
1) When will the first session start and more importantly end.
2) The race director will have to run both programs for the same amount of pay but work twice as long.
3) One or the other program will become dominate and will split the club against each other like onroad vs offroad is now.
4) The second session guys will still end late.
My biggest concern is number 3. This is how we lost our onroad program years ago. The offroad became dominate and everything was catered to them - so the onroad guys finally left and most are still very bitter to this day.
Regarding Number 1 - what if the first session gets a big turn out and runs late - infringing on the second session?
If we were to split the day - I think you have to include all classes and class levels in each session. Which may mean eliminating one of the class levels, in order to have enough to fill the classes. Example eliminate super only offering Open and Sportsman -- or -- eliminate sportsman and only offer Super and Open.
We have a simple supply and demand problem - we need to increase the supply. I believe one way is to offer a weeknight program or even two nights. Although I agree some of the same concerns I have about splitting Saturdays could apply to weeknight races.
It is not an easy problem to fix - but we should all be willing to listen and think about the best options for the club as a whole, so we can continue to enjoy our hobby. Being closed minded and/or just trying to look out for ones own interests is not going to solve anything - and this two will divide the club.
02-16-2012, 09:31 AM
#183
I am personally against spliting the day by skill level.
If the day is split it needs to included all offroad classes the club offers - you can't force the super guys to stay late or make the sportsman guys come early. Each should be able to choose wants best for themselves.
If the day is split it needs to included all offroad classes the club offers - you can't force the super guys to stay late or make the sportsman guys come early. Each should be able to choose wants best for themselves.
02-16-2012, 09:31 AM
#184
Here is my reply to a PM I anwsered:
I see the problem and it is not new. We used to start at 6pm until you brought this same subject up last year or the year before and the start time was moved to 5pm. Which I was not against.
I see several problems with splitting up Saturdays.
1) When will the first session start and more importantly end.
2) The race director will have to run both programs for the same amount of pay but work twice as long.
3) One or the other program will become dominate and will split the club against each other like onroad vs offroad is now.
4) The second session guys will still end late.
My biggest concern is number 3. This is how we lost our onroad program years ago. The offroad became dominate and everything was catered to them - so the onroad guys finally left and most are still very bitter to this day.
Regarding Number 1 - what if the first session gets a big turn out and runs late - infringing on the second session?
If we were to split the day - I think you have to include all classes and class levels in each session. Which may mean eliminating one of the class levels, in order to have enough to fill the classes. Example eliminate super only offering Open and Sportsman -- or -- eliminate sportsman and only offer Super and Open.
We have a simple supply and demand problem - we need to increase the supply. I believe one way is to offer a weeknight program or even two nights. Although I agree some of the same concerns I have about splitting Saturdays could apply to weeknight races.
It is not an easy problem to fix - but we should all be willing to listen and think about the best options for the club as a whole, so we can continue to enjoy our hobby. Being closed minded and/or just trying to look out for ones own interests is not going to solve anything - and this two will divide the club.
I see the problem and it is not new. We used to start at 6pm until you brought this same subject up last year or the year before and the start time was moved to 5pm. Which I was not against.
I see several problems with splitting up Saturdays.
1) When will the first session start and more importantly end.
2) The race director will have to run both programs for the same amount of pay but work twice as long.
3) One or the other program will become dominate and will split the club against each other like onroad vs offroad is now.
4) The second session guys will still end late.
My biggest concern is number 3. This is how we lost our onroad program years ago. The offroad became dominate and everything was catered to them - so the onroad guys finally left and most are still very bitter to this day.
Regarding Number 1 - what if the first session gets a big turn out and runs late - infringing on the second session?
If we were to split the day - I think you have to include all classes and class levels in each session. Which may mean eliminating one of the class levels, in order to have enough to fill the classes. Example eliminate super only offering Open and Sportsman -- or -- eliminate sportsman and only offer Super and Open.
We have a simple supply and demand problem - we need to increase the supply. I believe one way is to offer a weeknight program or even two nights. Although I agree some of the same concerns I have about splitting Saturdays could apply to weeknight races.
It is not an easy problem to fix - but we should all be willing to listen and think about the best options for the club as a whole, so we can continue to enjoy our hobby. Being closed minded and/or just trying to look out for ones own interests is not going to solve anything - and this two will divide the club.
Keith.
02-16-2012, 10:00 AM
#185
matt, you are spot on....
you cannot repeat the past. have a reasonable discussion and make it better....
possibly start early, run 1 round. take a short break, allow the other folks to come in, then start your second round at your current start time, charge the late guys a prorated fee for running 2 heats, and get done 1 round early....
2 heats and a main are better than none, and if you are doing bump ups, a fast guy who is late and has a bad qualifyer can still get to the main....
just an opinion/idea
you cannot repeat the past. have a reasonable discussion and make it better....
possibly start early, run 1 round. take a short break, allow the other folks to come in, then start your second round at your current start time, charge the late guys a prorated fee for running 2 heats, and get done 1 round early....
2 heats and a main are better than none, and if you are doing bump ups, a fast guy who is late and has a bad qualifyer can still get to the main....
just an opinion/idea
02-16-2012, 10:14 AM
#186
Last week was the longest I can remember in quite some time. Usually every week I am on the beltline listening to the oldtime radio shows that start at 11 on 1310 AM.
Why not just let the race director decide to move to 5 min qualifiers if there are more than 50 racers? With 12 races in a round, that's darn near 45 minutes off the whole night right there.
Why not just let the race director decide to move to 5 min qualifiers if there are more than 50 racers? With 12 races in a round, that's darn near 45 minutes off the whole night right there.
People are always there at noon to work on thier setups and get some practice in. If you don't want to race in the afternoons you can still put some laps down. I think the current time works with MOST peoples schedules except for the 1am days.
02-16-2012, 10:16 AM
#187
Good points made here Matt. I remember when RCP had Wed. night offroad. They initially feared or viewed it as competition to the MARRCA offroad carpet program. In the end it turned out to be an extension of MARRCA as it gave members another opportunity to race at another time and/or location.
Keith.
Keith.
02-16-2012, 10:37 AM
#188
You CAN'T have two different start times for sportsman/open and super classes. Racers who dominate the class they are in are supposed to bump up to the next class. Need I say more?
If the choice is to only run 2 qualifiers the race fee needs to be reduced to reflect the reduction in races the racer gets to run. But doing that would not make any sense to the club since they just raised the race fees 2.5 months ago. If the fee is not dropped I would expect some sandbagging.
If the choice is to only run 2 qualifiers the race fee needs to be reduced to reflect the reduction in races the racer gets to run. But doing that would not make any sense to the club since they just raised the race fees 2.5 months ago. If the fee is not dropped I would expect some sandbagging.
02-16-2012, 11:50 AM
#190
yup...slower guys will run the after noon of open, then race the night of super....not helping anything...
02-16-2012, 04:43 PM
#191
i know everyone likes longer mains, but why not shorten the mains to same as qualifers at 6 mins? that would save more time then shortening the quals by a minute
but thats just my 2 cents on the topic
but thats just my 2 cents on the topic
02-16-2012, 04:52 PM
#192
Well I didn't think my question would have such a big response. I put it up on here because I think more people would say what they liked and wanted. I think when the club has their meetings, some people are not at the track yet or are practicing and don't care to be at the meeting. That said, I like the idea of all the racers filling out a form before they sign up to race. This would give the club a good idea of what everyone is looking for and get input from everyone, not just people on here.
Daryl
Daryl
02-17-2012, 02:27 PM
#193
Tech Adept
iTrader: (8)
daryl is smart and never dumb
Well I didn't think my question would have such a big response. I put it up on here because I think more people would say what they liked and wanted. I think when the club has their meetings, some people are not at the track yet or are practicing and don't care to be at the meeting. That said, I like the idea of all the racers filling out a form before they sign up to race. This would give the club a good idea of what everyone is looking for and get input from everyone, not just people on here.
Daryl
Daryl
02-20-2012, 10:19 AM
#195
Tech Initiate
I dont think he's worried about cost