128LikesXray T4'17
07-20-2017, 02:09 AM - Wikipost
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Welcome to the XRAY T4'17 Thread & Wikipost! Here you will find some useful info, tips and tricks as well as setups that are used by several team drivers. This wikipost is a work in progress and should continue to develop over time. Feel free to add anything you feel is useful to the community!
New for 2017: The T4'17 comes available with either a Graphite chassis, or Aluminum Flex chassis. We recommend the Graphite chassis for starting on asphalt, and the Aluminum Flex for starting on carpet. The 2017 also comes standard with the floating swing rack as an option, and the Composite Graphite arms included. Most of the team prefers the Graphite arms for both asphalt and carpet, though sometimes Hard arms may be ideal for asphalt depending on the conditions. This year's car also comes with the new "In-line Flex Adjustment" which provides many more flex adjustments than in the past allowing you to focus & fine-tune on forward/back flex and side-to-side flex both together & independently. Additionally, the Ackermann has been moved back by 1mm and the spacing of the RF blocks is wider, creating 0.5° less rear toe from previous T4 models. What's NEW at T4 2017? Convert your '16 to '17 specs with these parts: - NEW chassis plate (3 options to chose from below) - NEW Motor holder - NEW Motor holder plate - NEW center shaft holder - NEW Floating Servo Mount 301142 T4'17 CHASSIS 2.2MM GRAPHITE 301143 T4'17 ALU CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 301144 T4'17 ALU FLEX CHASSIS 2.0MM - SWISS 7075 T6 302536 ALU STEERING POST FOR FLOATING SERVO SAVER (2) 303066-O T4'17 ALU LAYSHAFT BULKHEAD CLOSED L/R - ORANGE 303067-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT - ORANGE 303068-O T4'17 ALU MOTOR MOUNT PLATE - ORANGE 306204-O T4'17 ALU SERVO MOUNT - ORANGE 306233 T4'17 GRAPHITE FLOATING SERVO HOLDER 3.0MM 306530 T4'17 GRAPHITE CHASSIS STIFFENER 3.0MM Tips & Tricks: Alex Hagberg's Tech Tip Tuesday articles How to mount your Protoform LTC-R Body Setting static camber How to mount weight on your chassis Part1 How to mount the rear wing on Protoform bodies Simple troubleshooting guide How to mount the battery on your chassis How to glue your front tires for CRC Black carpet with Eric Anderson Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing Exponential and RMode How to mount weight on your chassis Part2 Mastering the Sanwa M12S: Utilizing TH-Hold Team driver Tim Wahl posted some very useful build tips for the T4'16 on Facebook as he worked through building a new kit. These tips will still apply on the current model. 1- Carbon Parts 2-Suspension 3-Solid Axle and Differential 4-Bulkheads & Drivetrain 5-Driveshaft (ECS & CVD) 6-Front & Rear Suspension 7-Tweak 8-Anti-Roll Bar 9-Battery Fix (OPTIONAL) 10-Bumper & Body 11-Shocks 12-Steering Center Brace: The manual indicates using a 2mm shim under the center brace when attaching to the chassis plate. The gap is actually 3mm, so a 3mm shim should be used here. Tuning Note: On Carpet we have found that adding screws or doubling up the graphite brace will make the car react quicker to steering input, & change direction faster. Raising the graphite brace off of the aluminum bulkheads by placing a shim under it on the front and rear holes will reduce response. Using the tie-rod will reduce initial response to input, but will generate more in-corner traction or 'side-bite'. Using no brace will generate even more of this 'side-bite' but all of this is at the expense of corner speed. Best to use the tie-rod or no brace only in low-traction conditions. Additionally, the center brace increases forward traction, so removing it will potentially increase wheel-spin out of low speed corners. New Graphite Hubs: Xray have recently released some additional Graphite hubs for the T4 lineup. The 4° Graphite C-Hub has been out for some time and is known to improve steering on entry, and in general makes the car turn better. This has been the go-to c-hub on asphalt for many on the Xray team, though it is not needed on high bite carpet. The Graphite rear hub tends to make the car more stable, especially on corner entry. We are still working on gathering input on the new Graphite steering block, but for the moment feel that it should improve steering response. All Graphite parts are approximately 1g lighter than the Hard or Medium options. ARS Tuning courtesy of Ed (TryHard): If you set the ARS up with no shims under either inside or outside ball positions, it actually adds toe-in under compression, at around 1° at 5.2mm ride height (how much it adds depends how much the car compresses, obviously  )Adding shims reduces the amount added (1mm under one of the links gives about 0.5°), until the link has 2mm worth of shims (1mm either side, or 2mm on one side) makes the ARS neutral. Adding more shims then turns it into reducing toe in under compression. Whilst that might sound a bit backwards, it's actually not quite as simple as it sounds. By having the links to add toe, you gain forward traction. Also consider as the car rolls, the inside wheel is in negative compression, and the outside in compression. So the inside is toe-ing out, and the outside toe-ing in, so the whole rear is then 'steering' in the direction of the turn. Obviously the inside wheel has a lot less influence than the outside as it's far less loaded, but the effect is still there. Optional & Tuning Parts to consider: XRA301196 T4 Graphite Upper Deck 1.6mm V2 XRA302254 Composite Steering Block - Graphite XRA302334 Aluminum C-Hub Block - Caster 0° - Orange *Only for ARS* XRA302383 Composite C-Hub Right – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302384 Composite C-Hub Left – 4° - Graphite (ECS) XRA302711 Brass Front Lower 1-Piece Suspension Holder - Front - FF XRA302803 1.3mm Front Anti-Roll Bar XRA303360 Composite Upright 0° Outboard Toe-In - Graphite XRA303802 1.2mm Rear Anti-Roll Bar XRA305137 Steel Solid Axle Driveshaft Adapters - HUDY Spring Steel *Highly recommend* XRA305242 Composite Drive Shaft Replacement Cap 3.5mm – Orange – Strong (QTY 4) XRA305351 Aluminum Wheel Hub – Offset “-0.75mm” – Black (QTY 2) XRA305352 Aluminum Wheel Hub - Offset “+0.75mm” - Black (QTY 2) XRA306191 T4 Graphite + Aluminum Fully Adjustable Battery Holder XRA308264 4S Spring-Set Progressive C=2.5-2.8 (QTY 2) XRA308276 4S Spring-Set C=2.7 (QTY 2) XRA308286 4S Spring-Set C=2.6 (QTY 2) XRA308039 Aluminum Progressive Shock System – Set (QTY 2) *Only for asphalt* Recent Setups: Bruno Coelho - IIC 2016 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Jan Ratheisky - AOC HK 2016 - Med Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Chris Adams - Halloween Classic - High Bite Carpet - Modified Chris Adams - ROAR Region 9 - Med Bite Asphalt - Modified Craig Xavier - US Indoor Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Bruno Coelho - ETS Rd1 Hrotovice - Med Bite Carpet - Modified Craig Xavier - Stock Wars - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - DHI Cup - Med Bite Carpet - 13.5 Chris Adams - Texas EOS Rd 1 - High Bite Carpet - Modified Alex Hagberg - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Robbie Dodge - Snowbird Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Jan Ratheisky - TITC - High Bite Asphalt - 13.5 Drew Ellis - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - Modified Eric Anderson - ROAR Carpet Nationals - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - Modified Martin Crisp - Canadian Nationals - Medium Bite Carpet - 17.5 Dan Hamann - MN State Champs - High Bite Carpet - 17.5 
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05-04-2017, 07:07 AM
#1096
Tech Master
iTrader: (3)
Just had another look at the car yesterday and also checked the rear diff and re-filled with a little more oil (3000). The rear diff feels tighter now. Could a rather loose rear diff be responsible for the oversteer? I always thought the thicker the oil the more oversteer I would ultimately get.
05-04-2017, 08:18 AM
#1097
The rear one was pretty tight. I tried to loosen it up but even on the loosest settings it feels somewhat tight.
05-04-2017, 04:24 PM
#1099
Opposite for moving chassis backward (arms forward), more weight to the rear. More rotation and more steering.
HiH
Ed
05-05-2017, 03:33 AM
#1102
05-06-2017, 10:21 PM
#1103
Just to give an update with my issues. It works now after changing the roll center in the back I had nice grip and a very funny race day. Thanks again for all the tips and hints.
To elaborate a little bit here. What did I change from the stock asphalt setup?
To elaborate a little bit here. What did I change from the stock asphalt setup?
- Rear shocks were moved one hole to position 3.
- I changed the shims under the rear camber links to move the roll center further down. I initially replaced the outer 4mm shim with a 3mm one. This already improved the stability of the rear a lot BUT during the run it started to oversteer again mid corner. I then replaced the inner 1mm shim with a 2 mm shim and this resulted in well behaving rear throughout the whole run.
Last edited by MGU; 05-08-2017 at 03:36 AM.
05-07-2017, 09:44 AM
#1104
Anyone have a good outdoor setup with the aluminum flex chassis on medium grip asphalt??
05-08-2017, 05:33 AM
#1105
Chassis Protector
Who makes a good chassis protector that is precut for the carbon chassis? Preferably stateside if possible..
Thanks..
Thanks..
05-08-2017, 04:27 PM
#1106
I am seeing a local guy do really well with the aluminum flex chassis on almost a kit setup on medium grip asphalt. The only changes he has made is adding screws at the layshaft, running the graphite center brace with all the screws, running all the screws in the motor mount and going to 5k in the rear diff. Nothing really fancy and the car is hooked up.
05-08-2017, 06:19 PM
#1107
Running the brace and all the screws..... that's makes the chassis stiffer? I thought the benefit of typical carbon chassis setup on asphalt was better because of more flex?
05-08-2017, 08:54 PM
#1108
05-08-2017, 09:46 PM
#1109
Even easier, roughly cut a piece of material that will cover the chassis, stick it on, press firmly to make sure the foil is well and truly attached all around and especially around the edges where you will cut, and then with a sharp knife or a scraper blade cut carefully around the chassis and all the cutouts. It is best if you rest the blade perfectly perpendicular to the chassis. Use a brand new blade and it will cut like butter.
To cut the holes around the screw heads, use a die punch of correct size and push it firmly against the foil, and twist a little bit, taking care not to move sideways. Or just push through the foil a hex driver and back off the screws enough to lift the foil around the heads, and then cut with your scalpel by using the the screw head edge as a resting guide for the blade. If you have a die punch that fits fest (snug) around the screw head, you can push that against the raised head and the punch and the screw head will cut the foil in between like a guillotine. This is the easiest and best way to do it, but relies on having a die punch which is a perfect fit. I have used brass tubing to make my own dies on the lathe by cutting a chamfer on the outside of the tube until the inner lip has a razor sharp edge. It wears out, but then again, I can easily re-sharpen it and there's no danger of damaging the chassis if I slip up.
I actually cut the screw holes only when I need to take out a screw for maintenance, so some never get cut over the life of the protector foil.
This is going to give you a perfectly formed protector every time.
Lately, what I do is actually use two pieces of foil, usually the rear quarter of the chassis is a separate piece. The two parts are separated by a straight line running across the chassis. This is only to allow me to change just the rear quarter when it gets scraped up and nasty, so I don't have to change the whole sheet.
I use the AE sheets and with the two piece technique I can squeeze two chassis protectors out of it.
You can also use a four piece technique, by splitting the chassis into four parts with a second, longitudinal line. This makes it even easier for later replacements and gives better use of the available sheet.
Or you can divide the chassis in as many parts as you want, depending on where you know the protector will wear and will need replacement. Your imagination is the limit.
Another protective measure I use is to take out the two screws at the very back edge of the chassis before I put the rear foil on (usually these screws hold the rear suspension block) and re-insert them through the foil. This means their heads will be proud of the bottom of the chassis, just enough that the screw heads get scraped on the track rather than the rear edge of my carbon chassis. Needless to say, these two screws are never replaced by titanium. Steel screws are cheap, chassis plates and titanium screws are expensive.
I have also used very thin (0.1mm) polycarbonate foil stuck to the chassis with carpet tape. It holds up unexpectedly well, and it is a lot cheaper. The covering technique is the same.
To cut the holes around the screw heads, use a die punch of correct size and push it firmly against the foil, and twist a little bit, taking care not to move sideways. Or just push through the foil a hex driver and back off the screws enough to lift the foil around the heads, and then cut with your scalpel by using the the screw head edge as a resting guide for the blade. If you have a die punch that fits fest (snug) around the screw head, you can push that against the raised head and the punch and the screw head will cut the foil in between like a guillotine. This is the easiest and best way to do it, but relies on having a die punch which is a perfect fit. I have used brass tubing to make my own dies on the lathe by cutting a chamfer on the outside of the tube until the inner lip has a razor sharp edge. It wears out, but then again, I can easily re-sharpen it and there's no danger of damaging the chassis if I slip up.
I actually cut the screw holes only when I need to take out a screw for maintenance, so some never get cut over the life of the protector foil.
This is going to give you a perfectly formed protector every time.
Lately, what I do is actually use two pieces of foil, usually the rear quarter of the chassis is a separate piece. The two parts are separated by a straight line running across the chassis. This is only to allow me to change just the rear quarter when it gets scraped up and nasty, so I don't have to change the whole sheet.
I use the AE sheets and with the two piece technique I can squeeze two chassis protectors out of it.
You can also use a four piece technique, by splitting the chassis into four parts with a second, longitudinal line. This makes it even easier for later replacements and gives better use of the available sheet.
Or you can divide the chassis in as many parts as you want, depending on where you know the protector will wear and will need replacement. Your imagination is the limit.
Another protective measure I use is to take out the two screws at the very back edge of the chassis before I put the rear foil on (usually these screws hold the rear suspension block) and re-insert them through the foil. This means their heads will be proud of the bottom of the chassis, just enough that the screw heads get scraped on the track rather than the rear edge of my carbon chassis. Needless to say, these two screws are never replaced by titanium. Steel screws are cheap, chassis plates and titanium screws are expensive.
I have also used very thin (0.1mm) polycarbonate foil stuck to the chassis with carpet tape. It holds up unexpectedly well, and it is a lot cheaper. The covering technique is the same.
Last edited by niznai; 05-09-2017 at 12:20 AM.
05-09-2017, 03:28 AM
#1110
Yep, his car is very good. More flex isn't necessarily more traction. The car can flex too much. In his case he has removed nearly all flex and it seems the stiffer he goes the better it gets for the time being. I will say though, others have tried the alum. flex chassis at our track and did not feel the same result, so it could be driving style and as always, the rest of the setup will have an effect as well. Some of our guys like aluminum, some don't.