Extending race length?
10-17-2005, 06:13 PM
#46
To bring up some points i have read earlier. Someone mentioned about turning entrants away from the nats would hurt the hobby. Actually i think it may help the hobby. The Nats should be set up differently than say the indoorchamps or winternats anyways. Or even the Us touring car championships and IIC. Were anyone and everyone is welcome to race and get experience. The nats should be for the best of the best so to speak. With that said it just may put more emphasis on the regionals around the country wich are non existent in my opinion. Bringing back more regional competition would add more entries and enrolment in ROAR. Especially if you made it a requirment to make it to the nats such as it being a qualifying event. I can barely even remember the last time i was a ROAR member. I think 2001.
10-17-2005, 06:22 PM
#47
Yesterday i attended an event which had 96 entries. TO bring up the point that people can't make runtime of six or seven minutes is riduculous. The track had open practice for four hours and a line of people most times to get out on the track. There was no time limit and most times people were practicing for an easy 8-12 minutes. Why would people choose to kill there packs and motors. Easy, for track time. Which is what we can do when we extend race length. For those in argument over this, Yes i agree that larger events CAN NOT handle this but smaller clubs and tracks CAN and should. It will only make u a better driver when you do go to a larger race with 70 or more racers, your five minute race will be a walk in the park.
I don't know about you. But if you can't make the time of 5 minutes with these new packs, you are simply not taking care of your packs anyways. I'd much rather run another minute, than to slap the existing time left on my discharger and trays anyways.
I don't know about you. But if you can't make the time of 5 minutes with these new packs, you are simply not taking care of your packs anyways. I'd much rather run another minute, than to slap the existing time left on my discharger and trays anyways.
10-17-2005, 07:05 PM
#48
Let all who want to, embrace the brushless motor, and go race the longer races, then you have a class for people who want to run longer, and people who want to keep it as is!!!
10-17-2005, 07:17 PM
#49
In life you will always have those who want to keep it AS IS. But it's the rest of us that excell and move forward. You can stay behind and whatch Black and white tv or use the typewriter. Me, I'm ready to move forward. Bring on six minutes. If you want to keep it as is go back to 4 minute races. That was the norm once upon a time.
10-17-2005, 07:52 PM
#50
Once agian you missed my point. 4 minutes, 5 minutes, 6 minutes... whatever, the big races will always be the big races, and they will adjust accordingly. If I recall way back when.... it used to be ALL 8 minute 12th scale.... for onroad. If they could run the big races back then, I think the promoters can find a way to fit 1 more minute into a TC race.
If your local tracks bump stock and 19t racing into 6 minutes... then maybe there will eb a push for a change, if they dont, then we are where we at. My local track is moving to 6 minute stock racing. After a couple races I'll tell ya how it goes. I have already run 6 minute 19t in a "fun" class, and do not see any negative effects.
You know maybe adding a minute or two to the racing will help to differentiate the classes a little more. On most outdoor tracks around here, Stock,19t and Mod are only a second or two apart... if that....
If your local tracks bump stock and 19t racing into 6 minutes... then maybe there will eb a push for a change, if they dont, then we are where we at. My local track is moving to 6 minute stock racing. After a couple races I'll tell ya how it goes. I have already run 6 minute 19t in a "fun" class, and do not see any negative effects.
You know maybe adding a minute or two to the racing will help to differentiate the classes a little more. On most outdoor tracks around here, Stock,19t and Mod are only a second or two apart... if that....
Originally Posted by T. Thomas
So your saying that the nats should turn away entries? I think that would do more harm then good. It comes down to first come first serve?
I am more for what Mal and that other guys stated, I would rather run an extra qualifier.
To those who run brushless, When brushless gets thier own nats and MORE people start showing up with them at larger events, then I do agree the races should be longer, but with brushed, the race length is just right.
To the one who said why not run less motor so it does not melt and be just as fast at the end at the beginning, if that was the case and that motor would have been overall faster, don't ya think the manufacturers who were at the Japan NATIONAL would have done that?
I am more for what Mal and that other guys stated, I would rather run an extra qualifier.
To those who run brushless, When brushless gets thier own nats and MORE people start showing up with them at larger events, then I do agree the races should be longer, but with brushed, the race length is just right.
To the one who said why not run less motor so it does not melt and be just as fast at the end at the beginning, if that was the case and that motor would have been overall faster, don't ya think the manufacturers who were at the Japan NATIONAL would have done that?
10-17-2005, 08:18 PM
#51
I have been racing for around 4 years. Some of the people that have raced longer than that use to race 4min with 1200 and 1400 batteries, and some people have problems running 5 min with 3300? I have ran 10min endo race with 3000,s . I am sure there are time limits at some club races due to the number of racers, but this cant be the reason at most of the club races. just my .02 cents 
10-17-2005, 08:27 PM
#52
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
One of my favorite parts of this hobby is the 5 minute sprint. I don't want to start having to "time" what part of the race i want to push my tires and when i need to back off to keep them from overheating. And I sure as hell don't want to go back to the battery wars of the late 80's/ early 90's.
10-17-2005, 08:30 PM
#53
"To those who run brushless, When brushless gets thier own nats and MORE people start showing up with them at larger events, then I do agree the races should be longer, but with brushed, the race length is just right."
Brushless does not need thier own nats. If one technology is superior to the other (or not) then the lesser technology simply goes away. BTW, the current 1/12 modified champion ran a LRP brushless system in his car.(8 minute race)
"To the one who said why not run less motor so it does not melt and be just as fast at the end at the beginning, if that was the case and that motor would have been overall faster, don't ya think the manufacturers who were at the Japan NATIONAL would have done that?"
They did that because they were manufacturers racing for a national title and the total cash outlay for all the motors they burned in the name of competition would cost a fraction of the cost of advertising the win (assuming they won). Are you and I manufacturers? Are you racing for the National title? (I'm certainly not)
We're talking about racing that we actually do here. Not the fantasy land of sponsored "Pros". The point I was trying to make about the motors is if you're running a motor that will barely last a run, either you are running the wrong motor or you have the cash to burn a motor every race.
Brushless does not need thier own nats. If one technology is superior to the other (or not) then the lesser technology simply goes away. BTW, the current 1/12 modified champion ran a LRP brushless system in his car.(8 minute race)
"To the one who said why not run less motor so it does not melt and be just as fast at the end at the beginning, if that was the case and that motor would have been overall faster, don't ya think the manufacturers who were at the Japan NATIONAL would have done that?"
They did that because they were manufacturers racing for a national title and the total cash outlay for all the motors they burned in the name of competition would cost a fraction of the cost of advertising the win (assuming they won). Are you and I manufacturers? Are you racing for the National title? (I'm certainly not)
We're talking about racing that we actually do here. Not the fantasy land of sponsored "Pros". The point I was trying to make about the motors is if you're running a motor that will barely last a run, either you are running the wrong motor or you have the cash to burn a motor every race.
10-17-2005, 09:15 PM
#54
Tech Adept
Longer race times with current brushed technology will kill the hobby, at least the on-road portion.
In TC, it is not uncommon for stock motors to end up between 185 and 220 degrees at the end of a 5 minute run. Add 3 minutes to that and just imagine how hot it will get. Most people can't setup a car and drive it smooth enough to keep their motor temps down. We have to remember that the hardcore racers are not the ones who keep the track open, it is the hobbyist.
And don't tell me we should run milder motors. We are racing here, not cruising! We are all looking for speed. Just like the old days, there will be racers who are willing to push their equipment to the limit and spend money. They will build 1-run motors. And, there will be a battle for those killer run-time cells. It's competition, we'll have to try and keep up.
Right now, you can be competetive at the club level with just one motor and two battery packs. With longer races, we'll need multiple motors and more battery packs. And that is just so they have enough time to cool off before we use them again. By putting more stress and heat into them, they won't be as durable. So, you can add in more frequent replacement to the cost.
When brushless motors and li-poly batteries become our standard, then I think we can look at longer races.
In TC, it is not uncommon for stock motors to end up between 185 and 220 degrees at the end of a 5 minute run. Add 3 minutes to that and just imagine how hot it will get. Most people can't setup a car and drive it smooth enough to keep their motor temps down. We have to remember that the hardcore racers are not the ones who keep the track open, it is the hobbyist.
And don't tell me we should run milder motors. We are racing here, not cruising! We are all looking for speed. Just like the old days, there will be racers who are willing to push their equipment to the limit and spend money. They will build 1-run motors. And, there will be a battle for those killer run-time cells. It's competition, we'll have to try and keep up.
Right now, you can be competetive at the club level with just one motor and two battery packs. With longer races, we'll need multiple motors and more battery packs. And that is just so they have enough time to cool off before we use them again. By putting more stress and heat into them, they won't be as durable. So, you can add in more frequent replacement to the cost.
When brushless motors and li-poly batteries become our standard, then I think we can look at longer races.
10-17-2005, 09:34 PM
#55
I submit the idea of having tamiya enduro race to my LHS 
Tamiya TT-01 and M03 are running together for 2 hours endurance. One team can have two cars. While I drive in the first hour, my team mate become my mechanic changing battery. And vice versa.
It's fun. This sunday we will have tamiya enduro race again. Nextime around 4 hours.
Tamiya TT-01 and M03 are running together for 2 hours endurance. One team can have two cars. While I drive in the first hour, my team mate become my mechanic changing battery. And vice versa.It's fun. This sunday we will have tamiya enduro race again. Nextime around 4 hours.
10-17-2005, 09:47 PM
#56
Originally Posted by asw7576
I submit the idea of having tamiya enduro race to my LHS Tamiya TT-01 and M03 are running together for 2 hours endurance. One team can have two cars. While I drive in the first hour, my team mate become my mechanic changing battery. And vice versa.
It's fun. This sunday we will have tamiya enduro race again. Nextime around 4 hours.
Tamiya TT-01 and M03 are running together for 2 hours endurance. One team can have two cars. While I drive in the first hour, my team mate become my mechanic changing battery. And vice versa.It's fun. This sunday we will have tamiya enduro race again. Nextime around 4 hours.
I'm with you man...I want to race like in real motorsports. Not like some chunky guys in Ohio who refuse to change.
This really is pathetic that you hear so many folks whine and cry over how hard it will be to run longer...and how you'll fry the motors.
If your STOCK motor is burning up...GEAR DOWN YOU MORONS!
Yeah...it may be racing...but last time I checked, racing wasn't just about going fast. It was about using your available resources to last the race and win.
Also...as far as everyone bitching about blowing stock motors. STOP RUINING THE BEGINNER CLASS OF OUR HOBBY!
Get the F--K out of STOCK and run MODIFIED. If you think your soooo talented....run MODIFIED.
It's asshats that build the one run stock motors that ruin the hobby for everyone. So they run STOCK, they sandbag week in and week out and are too chicken to run MODIFIED.
So anyhow...if you want SPEED...GET THE F--K OUT OF STOCK.
Idiots....
10-17-2005, 10:02 PM
#57
We use Tamiya stock 23 RZ and Sport Tuned Black.
For Stock 23 RZ we gear quite high, i think like 6.80 final gear ratio. I switch battery after 20 minutes with IB3800.
The comm are fine, the brush are fine. No burned marks. Just gear it quite tall, over 6.5 for RZ and Sport Tuned.
Actually driving endurace race is more challenging than driving fast. You are force to drive carefully, you are force to use brain to guide the car entering corner smoothly and avoid accident just like in real thing. You can make mistake, but not so many if you want to win.
The first winner have 315 laps completed in two hours
Edit: We have 16 cars during the race, lots of traffic, but lots of clean overtaking corners. Just like in real thing.
For Stock 23 RZ we gear quite high, i think like 6.80 final gear ratio. I switch battery after 20 minutes with IB3800.
The comm are fine, the brush are fine. No burned marks. Just gear it quite tall, over 6.5 for RZ and Sport Tuned.
Actually driving endurace race is more challenging than driving fast. You are force to drive carefully, you are force to use brain to guide the car entering corner smoothly and avoid accident just like in real thing. You can make mistake, but not so many if you want to win.
The first winner have 315 laps completed in two hours
Edit: We have 16 cars during the race, lots of traffic, but lots of clean overtaking corners. Just like in real thing.
10-17-2005, 10:04 PM
#58
Originally Posted by asw7576
We use Tamiya stock 23 RZ and Sport Tuned Black.
For Stock 23 RZ we gear quite high, i think like 6.80 final gear ratio. I switch battery after 20 minutes with IB3800.
The comm are fine, the brush are fine. No burned marks. Just gear it quite tall, over 6.5 for RZ and Sport Tuned.
Actually driving endurace race is more challenging than driving fast. You are force to drive carefully, you are force to use brain to guide the car entering corner smoothly and avoid accident just like in real thing. You can make mistake, but not so many if you want to win.
The first winner have 315 laps completed in two hours
For Stock 23 RZ we gear quite high, i think like 6.80 final gear ratio. I switch battery after 20 minutes with IB3800.
The comm are fine, the brush are fine. No burned marks. Just gear it quite tall, over 6.5 for RZ and Sport Tuned.
Actually driving endurace race is more challenging than driving fast. You are force to drive carefully, you are force to use brain to guide the car entering corner smoothly and avoid accident just like in real thing. You can make mistake, but not so many if you want to win.
The first winner have 315 laps completed in two hours
Thats awsome man. I'm gonna push to get a special "Endurance" race at Debbies RC World sometime this winter.
10-18-2005, 02:31 AM
#59
Tech Addict
Originally Posted by Jack Smash
The problem with this hobby not attracting new blood is not the hard boards, fragile cars, length of runs. It is the lack of marketing to new blood. Almost all of the advertising done by this industry is done towards current hobbiest/ racers. There is almost no marketing outside of the industry. Team Losi and Futaba have done a small amount (almost undetectable) and Traxxas is finally stepping it up with their full scale monster truck effort. Things as simple as local tracks informing the media about events they are having are not being done.
Some comments I've read.
1. "I want sprint race"
2. "6 minute mains will ruin my motor"
3. "6 minute mains will ruin my batteries"
4. "You'll have to turn away racers"
5. "I can't make time with longer mains"
1. Go drag racing.
2. We heard the same thing when mains went from 4 minutes to 5. It's not true. I want 8 minute mains, it would still not be true
2b. Gear and time your motor to last.
3. We heard the same thing when mains went from 4 minutes to 5. It's not true.
4. You limit racers to 2 classes so the guys who were running 3-4 classes don't. Then you free up time/space for more racers. At many big races you see the pros race in many classes "to learn the track" Eliminate that and you have lot of room for longer mains.
5. Yes you can. Time and gear your motor properly. Learn to drive. Bring driving skill into racing, not just money.
Originally Posted by Soviet
If your STOCK motor is burning up...GEAR DOWN YOU MORONS!
Yeah...it may be racing...but last time I checked, racing wasn't just about going fast. It was about using your available resources to last the race and win.
Also...as far as everyone bitching about blowing stock motors. STOP RUINING THE BEGINNER CLASS OF OUR HOBBY!
Get the F--K out of STOCK and run MODIFIED. If you think your soooo talented....run MODIFIED.
It's asshats that build the one run stock motors that ruin the hobby for everyone. So they run STOCK, they sandbag week in and week out and are too chicken to run MODIFIED.
So anyhow...if you want SPEED...GET THE F--K OUT OF STOCK.
Yeah...it may be racing...but last time I checked, racing wasn't just about going fast. It was about using your available resources to last the race and win.
Also...as far as everyone bitching about blowing stock motors. STOP RUINING THE BEGINNER CLASS OF OUR HOBBY!
Get the F--K out of STOCK and run MODIFIED. If you think your soooo talented....run MODIFIED.
It's asshats that build the one run stock motors that ruin the hobby for everyone. So they run STOCK, they sandbag week in and week out and are too chicken to run MODIFIED.
So anyhow...if you want SPEED...GET THE F--K OUT OF STOCK.
10-18-2005, 05:47 AM
#60
I know, get your clubs to run longer races, but do not try and force it on everyone by getting ROAR to do it as well. Until all the issues with longer mains can be accounted for and justified, making ROAR run longer races just is not going to happen. Here is something to think about, nitro onroad and offroad, they can run for about an hour right, then why do they still only run for 5 minutes in qualifying? Even the Nitro Offroad race has a limit of 200 entries and people are at the track for approximately 12-14 hours currently during qualifying. While only on the track for 10 minutes worth of racing.