what's the matter with American racing?
10-14-2014, 02:37 PM
#91
Tech Regular
Let me get this right; so it's normal in the US that there are separate gas powered tracks? Meaning EP cars aren't alowed on those tracks?? Is that the case?
That would be really weird. Most of the time a mod will beat a GP on a gas track...
If GP and EP cars have separate tracks, could somebody explain why this is the case?
Never heard or seen this in Europe.
That would be really weird. Most of the time a mod will beat a GP on a gas track...
If GP and EP cars have separate tracks, could somebody explain why this is the case?
Never heard or seen this in Europe.
10-14-2014, 03:08 PM
#93
Paul almost made it into the A. I'm sure he would have been in there, if a corner marshall hadn't put Olli Jefferies broken car back down in the middle of the track right before the straight, then stared at it while Paul plowed right into it. Luck can always be a factor, but virtually every guy who was in the top ten are just awesome drivers who have a lot of support. They happen to be from other parts of the world.
Even if we had the best tracks and thriving modified race program over here, it's no guarantee that a north american driver will emerge from it with the talent and support to make the A at a worlds. It sure wouldn't hurt though.
In North America (I'm including Canada too, because we aren't so different) more people should race mod on a regular basis, even on tracks that aren't really suited for it. Get your friends together and all race mod. It's so much more thrilling trying to drive a car that has far more power than you need. Will it make it more likely to see an American(or Canadian) in a worlds A-Main? Maybe, maybe not, but that doesn't really matter. Do it just for the fun of it! It's a blast
Even if we had the best tracks and thriving modified race program over here, it's no guarantee that a north american driver will emerge from it with the talent and support to make the A at a worlds. It sure wouldn't hurt though.
In North America (I'm including Canada too, because we aren't so different) more people should race mod on a regular basis, even on tracks that aren't really suited for it. Get your friends together and all race mod. It's so much more thrilling trying to drive a car that has far more power than you need. Will it make it more likely to see an American(or Canadian) in a worlds A-Main? Maybe, maybe not, but that doesn't really matter. Do it just for the fun of it! It's a blast
10-14-2014, 03:11 PM
#94
Gas and electric folks seem to run in different circles around here and don't generally play together. Not sure why. People seem to either run nitro OR electric and a race day generally does not mix the two. That may not be representative of the entire country though. The contiguous US is roughly the same area as Europe with less than half the population. 'Tis large.
Maybe us Americans just aren't patient enough for onroad these days. Club racing competition is pretty darn high and possibly it's just less stressful and fun for folks to beat on their short buses.
Maybe us Americans just aren't patient enough for onroad these days. Club racing competition is pretty darn high and possibly it's just less stressful and fun for folks to beat on their short buses.
10-14-2014, 03:30 PM
#95
Tech Master
iTrader: (6)
not so hard to understand
"anybody with Facebook knows that racers and mechanics flew in from all over the world to test, multiple times before the event."
That phenomenon pretty much explains the perfomance defecit in a nutshell. It seems clear enough, and it should come as no surprise, that there is quite a high level of effort, commitment, focus, dedication, talent, and financial investment required in order to achieve an on-road RC world championship.....especially in the sedan arena. For whatever reason and at this point in time, some of the european and asian teams do seem more willing to make these "sacrifices" in order to stand on the top steps of the podium.
This phenomenon makes the recent achivements by the group from CRC all the more remarkable. Kudos to those guys for keeping after it long and hard and for doing what is required to bring home their first IFMAR 1/12th scale world championship.
That phenomenon pretty much explains the perfomance defecit in a nutshell. It seems clear enough, and it should come as no surprise, that there is quite a high level of effort, commitment, focus, dedication, talent, and financial investment required in order to achieve an on-road RC world championship.....especially in the sedan arena. For whatever reason and at this point in time, some of the european and asian teams do seem more willing to make these "sacrifices" in order to stand on the top steps of the podium.
This phenomenon makes the recent achivements by the group from CRC all the more remarkable. Kudos to those guys for keeping after it long and hard and for doing what is required to bring home their first IFMAR 1/12th scale world championship.
10-14-2014, 07:01 PM
#96
Can't run mod on your carpet tracks? Elliott Harper flew out there specifically to do some mod carpet testing with the Durango before they released it. Again the video was there for all to see on Facebook.
Distance is an issue? Check UK fuel prices and cringe at how much it costs us to even get to a track!
(1 US Gallon of Diesel costs about $7.85US currently).
What I saw what the team that sunk the most time, effort and resources into it win. But they got run very close by a very talented future threat in Coelho.
The fact is most of these companies are not selling enough kits to justify sponsoring drivers to the level that is seen in Europe. Looking at offroad, where the cash is flowing much more liberally, there seems to be plenty of guys who are sponsored at a level similar to what happens in on road in Europe.
And yes distance is an issue, not so much in fuel but time. How many hours travel time is it to compete in the BRCA Nationals on average? It's hard to get people to travel around for a regional series here.
10-14-2014, 07:09 PM
#97
Let me get this right; so it's normal in the US that there are separate gas powered tracks? Meaning EP cars aren't alowed on those tracks?? Is that the case?
That would be really weird. Most of the time a mod will beat a GP on a gas track...
If GP and EP cars have separate tracks, could somebody explain why this is the case?
Never heard or seen this in Europe.
That would be really weird. Most of the time a mod will beat a GP on a gas track...
If GP and EP cars have separate tracks, could somebody explain why this is the case?
Never heard or seen this in Europe.
10-14-2014, 07:44 PM
#98
One of my favorite threads, the bi-annual "why do we suck at onroad?" thread
I think I have some reasons, which I sure someone has mentioned already:
*Tracks - besides Kisimmee, how many are there? Tamiya, Time Zone WA, Leisure Hours IL , Toledo OH, Jackson NJ, Houston TX? 6-7 tracks in the US that are viable. I know there are more outdoor permanent tracks, but some are gas only, some are really small to run mod on. Tamiya you can't practice on unless you have a Tamiya car or it's a special event. It seems like in Europe every major town has a decent asphalt track....If I am wrong someone let me know.
*Barriers- "Anyone know what the barriers are made of?" Syndr0me- "The tears of drivers that race on US style tracks year round."
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
*Drivers - Years ago all the offroad guys raced touring cars or even 1/12 as well at these races. Mark Pavidis had a real shot at winning the 2000 sedan WC and won the 200mm nitro WC with an NTC3 (everybody seems to forget this). Billy Easton, Todd Hodge, Kinwald etc. etc. Now the talent is in offroad along with all the sponsor $$$
*America is gigantic - You can run around central Europe and race ETS races. I'd like to know what the travel time is on that.
Chicago to Cleveland is a 6 hr drive. Chicago to St. Louis is 5-5 1/2 hrs. Chicago to Orlando is 20 -something hours or a plane ride. The point is even in a confined area like "the Midwest" you can take a day of driving just to get to the next big city. No to mention things like not having an on road track in Detroit so those guys have to go to Toledo.
So now you have a situation where guys like Paul L. and Hebert and Hardman really don't have many opportunities to race a full field. Leisure Hours is close to me and actually gets a mod turnout, simply because it is a huge curb asphalt track where you won't instantly blow your car up Pole Position style if you make a mistake. The thing is, a large part of the crowd goes offroad racing or whatever because the carpet track is 80 miles away and mod is no faster than 17.5 on that track anyway. Ideally, there would be a 100x50' carpet track to run on as well, but that's not reality.
I think I have some reasons, which I sure someone has mentioned already:
*Tracks - besides Kisimmee, how many are there? Tamiya, Time Zone WA, Leisure Hours IL , Toledo OH, Jackson NJ, Houston TX? 6-7 tracks in the US that are viable. I know there are more outdoor permanent tracks, but some are gas only, some are really small to run mod on. Tamiya you can't practice on unless you have a Tamiya car or it's a special event. It seems like in Europe every major town has a decent asphalt track....If I am wrong someone let me know.
*Barriers- "Anyone know what the barriers are made of?" Syndr0me- "The tears of drivers that race on US style tracks year round."
Nobody is helping anything using hard immoveable barriers if they want to promote faster classes. Destroying your car on a regular basis is kind of a bummer. Some people hate dots but The Gate built a couple dot tracks recently and it was awesome to race on.
*Drivers - Years ago all the offroad guys raced touring cars or even 1/12 as well at these races. Mark Pavidis had a real shot at winning the 2000 sedan WC and won the 200mm nitro WC with an NTC3 (everybody seems to forget this). Billy Easton, Todd Hodge, Kinwald etc. etc. Now the talent is in offroad along with all the sponsor $$$
*America is gigantic - You can run around central Europe and race ETS races. I'd like to know what the travel time is on that.
Chicago to Cleveland is a 6 hr drive. Chicago to St. Louis is 5-5 1/2 hrs. Chicago to Orlando is 20 -something hours or a plane ride. The point is even in a confined area like "the Midwest" you can take a day of driving just to get to the next big city. No to mention things like not having an on road track in Detroit so those guys have to go to Toledo.
So now you have a situation where guys like Paul L. and Hebert and Hardman really don't have many opportunities to race a full field. Leisure Hours is close to me and actually gets a mod turnout, simply because it is a huge curb asphalt track where you won't instantly blow your car up Pole Position style if you make a mistake. The thing is, a large part of the crowd goes offroad racing or whatever because the carpet track is 80 miles away and mod is no faster than 17.5 on that track anyway. Ideally, there would be a 100x50' carpet track to run on as well, but that's not reality.
How about the greasy track conditions at the 12th worlds. Euro 12th drivers are used to drifting their cars around a dotted track. Add Vegas, Snowbirds, Cleveland or Halloween Classic style bite, with REAL barriers and the results woulda been different, sorry, but it's truth.
10-14-2014, 07:53 PM
#99
Most of the talented newcomers to R/C racing are racing other classes while those that had the talent to be top level drivers chose to race 17.5.
The WC 1/12 track was as American as it gets. There was no disadvantage and the TC track was not particularly difficult. Difficult would be racing TC on a European carpet track!
Even back in 2008 PL and I were the only Americans at the Worlds and when there are more than two, there are no more than five. Had this Worlds been in Europe or Asia you would still have had three at most.
And the Worlds is not an easy race. There were four Americans in the top 17 in the TC race. Considering that JJ Wang is up and coming, Scotty Gray is a part time electric racer, I am 47 years, and Lemieux is no youngster, I would say the Americans did pretty well (14th, 15th, 16th, 17th)
R/C cars are as complex as most real race cars. Most of the top drivers are testing with 2-3 cars and practice at a race like the Worlds with 2 cars. Unlike most American races you are racing your car 6-7 times per day. To run that same car 7 times at the IIC (for example) you will run it over 4 days ('Birds: 5 days).
I feel that I am at a disadvantage without what a mechanic would bring to the table.
The WC 1/12 track was as American as it gets. There was no disadvantage and the TC track was not particularly difficult. Difficult would be racing TC on a European carpet track!
Even back in 2008 PL and I were the only Americans at the Worlds and when there are more than two, there are no more than five. Had this Worlds been in Europe or Asia you would still have had three at most.
And the Worlds is not an easy race. There were four Americans in the top 17 in the TC race. Considering that JJ Wang is up and coming, Scotty Gray is a part time electric racer, I am 47 years, and Lemieux is no youngster, I would say the Americans did pretty well (14th, 15th, 16th, 17th)
R/C cars are as complex as most real race cars. Most of the top drivers are testing with 2-3 cars and practice at a race like the Worlds with 2 cars. Unlike most American races you are racing your car 6-7 times per day. To run that same car 7 times at the IIC (for example) you will run it over 4 days ('Birds: 5 days).
I feel that I am at a disadvantage without what a mechanic would bring to the table.
10-14-2014, 08:22 PM
#100
Just race a tc4, and you won't need a mechanic at all....lol.....
Most of the talented newcomers to R/C racing are racing other classes while those that had the talent to be top level drivers chose to race 17.5.
The WC 1/12 track was as American as it gets. There was no disadvantage and the TC track was not particularly difficult. Difficult would be racing TC on a European carpet track!
Even back in 2008 PL and I were the only Americans at the Worlds and when there are more than two, there are no more than five. Had this Worlds been in Europe or Asia you would still have had three at most.
And the Worlds is not an easy race. There were four Americans in the top 17 in the TC race. Considering that JJ Wang is up and coming, Scotty Gray is a part time electric racer, I am 47 years, and Lemieux is no youngster, I would say the Americans did pretty well (14th, 15th, 16th, 17th)
R/C cars are as complex as most real race cars. Most of the top drivers are testing with 2-3 cars and practice at a race like the Worlds with 2 cars. Unlike most American races you are racing your car 6-7 times per day. To run that same car 7 times at the IIC (for example) you will run it over 4 days ('Birds: 5 days).
I feel that I am at a disadvantage without what a mechanic would bring to the table.
The WC 1/12 track was as American as it gets. There was no disadvantage and the TC track was not particularly difficult. Difficult would be racing TC on a European carpet track!
Even back in 2008 PL and I were the only Americans at the Worlds and when there are more than two, there are no more than five. Had this Worlds been in Europe or Asia you would still have had three at most.
And the Worlds is not an easy race. There were four Americans in the top 17 in the TC race. Considering that JJ Wang is up and coming, Scotty Gray is a part time electric racer, I am 47 years, and Lemieux is no youngster, I would say the Americans did pretty well (14th, 15th, 16th, 17th)
R/C cars are as complex as most real race cars. Most of the top drivers are testing with 2-3 cars and practice at a race like the Worlds with 2 cars. Unlike most American races you are racing your car 6-7 times per day. To run that same car 7 times at the IIC (for example) you will run it over 4 days ('Birds: 5 days).
I feel that I am at a disadvantage without what a mechanic would bring to the table.
10-14-2014, 08:33 PM
#101
10-15-2014, 05:03 AM
#103
Tech Master
Obviously depends on where you are in the UK, but for me the furthest national track would take 5-6 hours driving, assuming there's no traffic holdups. It averages out around 3-4 hours driving, costing around $50-60 in fuel. Then you are looking at $80-100 per night in a basic hotel. The biggest drop in drivers at national level is due to the travel costs.
10-15-2014, 05:28 AM
#104
Tech Master
Agreed to a certain extent, but back in the day, ALL tracks were 2x4's and in the US tracks were short by Global standards. I know one WC that did nearly all of his racing on 65'x35' tracks. He won on a track nearly twice the size he was used to, and beat the Naoto of his era. Back in the day we manned up, and learned to drive without dots. On sissy layouts with dots, a hack can win a few WC's because mistakes count less.
How about the greasy track conditions at the 12th worlds. Euro 12th drivers are used to drifting their cars around a dotted track. Add Vegas, Snowbirds, Cleveland or Halloween Classic style bite, with REAL barriers and the results woulda been different, sorry, but it's truth.
How about the greasy track conditions at the 12th worlds. Euro 12th drivers are used to drifting their cars around a dotted track. Add Vegas, Snowbirds, Cleveland or Halloween Classic style bite, with REAL barriers and the results woulda been different, sorry, but it's truth.
Our 1/12th nationals race on tracks like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxfKpFn_3PY and only recently we have added a 13.5T class, previously the only options were 10.5T or mod.
Our touring car nationals are raced outdoors, with a choice of open mod or 10.5T boosted, on unprepared tracks with limited numbers of spec tyres so low grip. But 90% of touring car clubs are indoors on temporary carpet tracks in sports halls or village halls.
