2013 Euros
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08-06-2013, 03:07 AM
#94
Tech Rookie
Is it my idea or touring cars nowadays have become:
-Impossibly demanding in tire terms for mere mortals (please count in that we have to practice also apart from the events)
-Extremely sensitive to drive if something is not right , even a small parameter , the car is not just slower, it is frustrating to drive (even Rheinards and Matsakuras pulling into the pits WTF?)
-Stagnant technologically/not versatile to cause several chassis layuts to work-most cars are almost the same apart from the shock set up of the Awesomatix. I know people will start saying the devil is in the details but they are all very very similar unlike electric off road where several layouts work making it much more interesting
-A class where money predominantly rules the game.Got no 400-500 euros for tires for a big event - you are out - talent doesnt go into play. That doesnt mean that people driving them are not talented, but i just cringe in front of the cost calculations of a normal non sponsored driver has to make to do a complete seasons of races, practice and some ETS events or a Euro for example.... People we are in the middle of a very bad financially period for the whole world! Are we realistic? Do we enjoy racing only with people of certain class and privilege that can afford it? And what about the others? A lot of us have families also...
-Impossibly demanding in tire terms for mere mortals (please count in that we have to practice also apart from the events)
-Extremely sensitive to drive if something is not right , even a small parameter , the car is not just slower, it is frustrating to drive (even Rheinards and Matsakuras pulling into the pits WTF?)
-Stagnant technologically/not versatile to cause several chassis layuts to work-most cars are almost the same apart from the shock set up of the Awesomatix. I know people will start saying the devil is in the details but they are all very very similar unlike electric off road where several layouts work making it much more interesting
-A class where money predominantly rules the game.Got no 400-500 euros for tires for a big event - you are out - talent doesnt go into play. That doesnt mean that people driving them are not talented, but i just cringe in front of the cost calculations of a normal non sponsored driver has to make to do a complete seasons of races, practice and some ETS events or a Euro for example.... People we are in the middle of a very bad financially period for the whole world! Are we realistic? Do we enjoy racing only with people of certain class and privilege that can afford it? And what about the others? A lot of us have families also...
08-06-2013, 03:33 AM
#95
Tech Adept
1) funny how some drivers always have something to complain. if they have limited sets they do, unlimited sets they do too. what is going in on?
2) even at the ETS races i can see it coming to 3 sets for the a-finals alone. because the drivers in the A want it. stupid but i will come to this.
3) tire wear is a problem. however, it is in my opinion caused by the insane speeds that modified are going today. there were many tires that lastest at least 5 good runs without dropping out to much (except for the lrp
these were always shit). sppeds have gone insane. we brought the boost/turbo menace to modified.
you cant stop technology. you cant do 0 boost in modified. why would you. but i would simply turn down the power of the batteries.
lipo is the standard now. before that we used to run 6 cells nimh. but in a short time frame we also had to use 5 cells for modified.
i think LiFe is the way to go now. it takes down power from the battery, still lets you run 5-7 min in modified, is much safer than lipo. from there also mere mortals could drive modified more easily, with less wear on material and less tire costs etc.
2) even at the ETS races i can see it coming to 3 sets for the a-finals alone. because the drivers in the A want it. stupid but i will come to this.
3) tire wear is a problem. however, it is in my opinion caused by the insane speeds that modified are going today. there were many tires that lastest at least 5 good runs without dropping out to much (except for the lrp
these were always shit). sppeds have gone insane. we brought the boost/turbo menace to modified. you cant stop technology. you cant do 0 boost in modified. why would you. but i would simply turn down the power of the batteries.
lipo is the standard now. before that we used to run 6 cells nimh. but in a short time frame we also had to use 5 cells for modified.
i think LiFe is the way to go now. it takes down power from the battery, still lets you run 5-7 min in modified, is much safer than lipo. from there also mere mortals could drive modified more easily, with less wear on material and less tire costs etc.
08-06-2013, 04:34 AM
#96
1) funny how some drivers always have something to complain. if they have limited sets they do, unlimited sets they do too. what is going in on?
2) even at the ETS races i can see it coming to 3 sets for the a-finals alone. because the drivers in the A want it. stupid but i will come to this.
3) tire wear is a problem. however, it is in my opinion caused by the insane speeds that modified are going today. there were many tires that lastest at least 5 good runs without dropping out to much (except for the lrp these were always shit). sppeds have gone insane. we brought the boost/turbo menace to modified.
you cant stop technology. you cant do 0 boost in modified. why would you. but i would simply turn down the power of the batteries.
lipo is the standard now. before that we used to run 6 cells nimh. but in a short time frame we also had to use 5 cells for modified.
i think LiFe is the way to go now. it takes down power from the battery, still lets you run 5-7 min in modified, is much safer than lipo. from there also mere mortals could drive modified more easily, with less wear on material and less tire costs etc.
2) even at the ETS races i can see it coming to 3 sets for the a-finals alone. because the drivers in the A want it. stupid but i will come to this.
3) tire wear is a problem. however, it is in my opinion caused by the insane speeds that modified are going today. there were many tires that lastest at least 5 good runs without dropping out to much (except for the lrp
these were always shit). sppeds have gone insane. we brought the boost/turbo menace to modified. you cant stop technology. you cant do 0 boost in modified. why would you. but i would simply turn down the power of the batteries.
lipo is the standard now. before that we used to run 6 cells nimh. but in a short time frame we also had to use 5 cells for modified.
i think LiFe is the way to go now. it takes down power from the battery, still lets you run 5-7 min in modified, is much safer than lipo. from there also mere mortals could drive modified more easily, with less wear on material and less tire costs etc.
2) If you're good enough to make the A final, a couple of extra sets of tyres aren't going to make much difference to your budget.
3) Tyres wear no matter what class you run, but the organisers choosing a tyre that can last more than one run without huge drop off would help (this is very dependant on the track surface as well).
A Change to LiFe would require notification well in advance from the governing bodies, as so few suitable race packs are made and it would take a while for manufacturers to gear up for it.
08-06-2013, 07:33 AM
#97
Tech Adept
1) Welcome to the world lol
2) If you're good enough to make the A final, a couple of extra sets of tyres aren't going to make much difference to your budget.
3) Tyres wear no matter what class you run, but the organisers choosing a tyre that can last more than one run without huge drop off would help (this is very dependant on the track surface as well).
A Change to LiFe would require notification well in advance from the governing bodies, as so few suitable race packs are made and it would take a while for manufacturers to gear up for it.
2) If you're good enough to make the A final, a couple of extra sets of tyres aren't going to make much difference to your budget.
3) Tyres wear no matter what class you run, but the organisers choosing a tyre that can last more than one run without huge drop off would help (this is very dependant on the track surface as well).
A Change to LiFe would require notification well in advance from the governing bodies, as so few suitable race packs are made and it would take a while for manufacturers to gear up for it.
organisers choose the tires mostly i think. but they do that based on simple economics. some company always makes them the sweetest deal for their tires and gets the job. in most cases in the past years that was lrp unfortunately. i agree that tire wear is very much also dependent on the track surface. therefore the organisers should be more free too choose the tire for the event since they presumably know best which tire works best and lasts the longest on their home track. so in case of the euros or worlds, efra and/or Ifmar has to step in and provide financial support to the host club for the tires. as far as i know thats not even the case closely. in fact i think the governing bodies are charging laughable sums.
sure, life's are far off at the moment. same thing was said about lipos a while back. only takes a few "important" guys to make a point and it takes off. in mainland europe i think it was mainly lrp who switched to lipos first in their series closely followed then by the ets. this cant happen overnight, but i can happen. anyway, its worth a thought.
08-06-2013, 07:49 AM
#98
It's surpsing that no one has picked up on the point that MattW made - he was actually there at the worlds and has identifed the issue(s) with the tyres and the attaching rules.
I think its simple - pick a tyre, wheel and insert combo that work well enough on the selected track to allow a racer to get a decent 2nd run - if this requires tyre addative then so be it. If you get this right (and track organisers should be able to) Then you can limit the sets as required - personally i think a little strategy still needs to be employed.
The big event organisers seem to have gone from one extreme to another with the worlds and euros tyre policy - here's hoping they get it right next time around so that we can talk about the actual racing!
I think its simple - pick a tyre, wheel and insert combo that work well enough on the selected track to allow a racer to get a decent 2nd run - if this requires tyre addative then so be it. If you get this right (and track organisers should be able to) Then you can limit the sets as required - personally i think a little strategy still needs to be employed.
The big event organisers seem to have gone from one extreme to another with the worlds and euros tyre policy - here's hoping they get it right next time around so that we can talk about the actual racing!
08-06-2013, 08:03 AM
#99
organisers choose the tires mostly i think. but they do that based on simple economics. some company always makes them the sweetest deal for their tires and gets the job. in most cases in the past years that was lrp unfortunately. i agree that tire wear is very much also dependent on the track surface. therefore the organisers should be more free too choose the tire for the event since they presumably know best which tire works best and lasts the longest on their home track. so in case of the euros or worlds, efra and/or Ifmar has to step in and provide financial support to the host club for the tires. as far as i know thats not even the case closely. in fact i think the governing bodies are charging laughable sums.
sure, life's are far off at the moment. same thing was said about lipos a while back. only takes a few "important" guys to make a point and it takes off. in mainland europe i think it was mainly lrp who switched to lipos first in their series closely followed then by the ets. this cant happen overnight, but i can happen. anyway, its worth a thought.
sure, life's are far off at the moment. same thing was said about lipos a while back. only takes a few "important" guys to make a point and it takes off. in mainland europe i think it was mainly lrp who switched to lipos first in their series closely followed then by the ets. this cant happen overnight, but i can happen. anyway, its worth a thought.
LiFe's would have to be pushed as an 'Only LiFe' rule, as Lipo's are more powerful no-one is going to downgrade' to a battery with less power.
Skiddins
08-06-2013, 08:06 AM
#100
Tech Adept
will not easily be something else for lipo
08-06-2013, 08:34 AM
#101
Look at Nascar same situation. You can't get around it new tires are faster. I think mod should get a new set every run so the tire games go away. Stock have a limit of 3 sets and 1 set for the mains. Very simple and easy.
08-06-2013, 09:03 AM
#102
Not necessarily at my track, some find new tyres faster in Mod, some find older tyres better.
In stock, it makes no difference. This is down to the track surface which was relayed a couple of years ago.
When the asphalt was new and still 'jet black' new tyres were worse and we could run a set until canvas was showing.
Organisers of the big events need to consider what will work best for everyone at the track, not just which tyre company gives them the best deal.
Skiddins
In stock, it makes no difference. This is down to the track surface which was relayed a couple of years ago.
When the asphalt was new and still 'jet black' new tyres were worse and we could run a set until canvas was showing.
Organisers of the big events need to consider what will work best for everyone at the track, not just which tyre company gives them the best deal.
Skiddins
08-06-2013, 09:10 AM
#103
08-06-2013, 09:19 AM
#104
Is it my idea or touring cars nowadays have become:
-Impossibly demanding in tire terms for mere mortals (please count in that we have to practice also apart from the events)
-Extremely sensitive to drive if something is not right , even a small parameter , the car is not just slower, it is frustrating to drive (even Rheinards and Matsakuras pulling into the pits WTF?)
-Stagnant technologically/not versatile to cause several chassis layuts to work-most cars are almost the same apart from the shock set up of the Awesomatix. I know people will start saying the devil is in the details but they are all very very similar unlike electric off road where several layouts work making it much more interesting
-A class where money predominantly rules the game.Got no 400-500 euros for tires for a big event - you are out - talent doesnt go into play. That doesnt mean that people driving them are not talented, but i just cringe in front of the cost calculations of a normal non sponsored driver has to make to do a complete seasons of races, practice and some ETS events or a Euro for example.... People we are in the middle of a very bad financially period for the whole world! Are we realistic? Do we enjoy racing only with people of certain class and privilege that can afford it? And what about the others? A lot of us have families also...
-Impossibly demanding in tire terms for mere mortals (please count in that we have to practice also apart from the events)
-Extremely sensitive to drive if something is not right , even a small parameter , the car is not just slower, it is frustrating to drive (even Rheinards and Matsakuras pulling into the pits WTF?)
-Stagnant technologically/not versatile to cause several chassis layuts to work-most cars are almost the same apart from the shock set up of the Awesomatix. I know people will start saying the devil is in the details but they are all very very similar unlike electric off road where several layouts work making it much more interesting
-A class where money predominantly rules the game.Got no 400-500 euros for tires for a big event - you are out - talent doesnt go into play. That doesnt mean that people driving them are not talented, but i just cringe in front of the cost calculations of a normal non sponsored driver has to make to do a complete seasons of races, practice and some ETS events or a Euro for example.... People we are in the middle of a very bad financially period for the whole world! Are we realistic? Do we enjoy racing only with people of certain class and privilege that can afford it? And what about the others? A lot of us have families also...
More awesome to watch,a challenge to set up to get every possible gain you can,fantastic amount of series to enter or watch,and factory drivers are traveling everywhere so you get a chance to meet them.
Yes,at the top level it is expensive,but wow these guys can drive!
Relax and enjoy.
Life's too darn short.