Kyosho Touring Car
08-13-2006, 03:25 AM
#856
Hey Lenny,
I can tell you how Adrian's car went..... bloody awful
Actually, the raceday went more like this,
R1, Adrian wins
R2, Adrian wins again
R3, Adrian wins again
Final, Adrian winning until his motor blew up
Honestly, the car looked very good - very good corner speed.
It was the first time I've ever seen Keith spend more time at someone else's pit space than his own
I can tell you how Adrian's car went..... bloody awful
Actually, the raceday went more like this,
R1, Adrian wins
R2, Adrian wins again
R3, Adrian wins again
Final, Adrian winning until his motor blew up
Honestly, the car looked very good - very good corner speed.
It was the first time I've ever seen Keith spend more time at someone else's pit space than his own
08-14-2006, 01:33 AM
#857
Hey DD, As bender said in his post the car went very well. Considering the track conditions on the day(low grip) the car perform very consistant. All 3 qaulifiers I turned 17 laps 5m 13. All within a tenth.
I ran the std set up all day and it was great. Waiting on springs etc as I could of used softer springs up front as the kit std is their stiffest available.
Given how wide the chassis is(this was the most common response of the day
) it survived Bayside incredibly well. Hardly a mark on the chassis.
The car had really good corner speed and drive out of slow corners. Plenty of steering but we always need more. No signs of any problems as of yet either.
Adrian
I ran the std set up all day and it was great. Waiting on springs etc as I could of used softer springs up front as the kit std is their stiffest available.
Given how wide the chassis is(this was the most common response of the day
) it survived Bayside incredibly well. Hardly a mark on the chassis.The car had really good corner speed and drive out of slow corners. Plenty of steering but we always need more. No signs of any problems as of yet either.
Adrian
08-14-2006, 05:47 PM
#858
Tech Regular
Originally Posted by Andrew_Carter
At last!! Someone who is actully clued up about TCs I cudnt agree more about the plastic bulkheadhead situation! What a shame that such a nice car is spolied by such cheap looking parts 
I spose its like most companys out there tho,wat the team drivers run is completly diffrent to waht we can buy!(apart from HB )
I spose its like most companys out there tho,wat the team drivers run is completly diffrent to waht we can buy!(apart from HB
)
08-14-2006, 10:32 PM
#859
I think there's some confusion about the parts being referred to in this discussion. Yes, the TF-5 will come with aluminum bulkheads. I think our resident Hot Bodies fan is referring to the molded caps that now sit atop the aluminum bulkheads.
Adachi's car does have some differences between it and the production car. It's quite common and honestly expected that the production cars are not going to be the same as the prototypes. Parts are often milled instead of molded simply because developing a mold for a part that you aren't absolutely sure you're going to produce will cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Previous prototypes had solid bulkheads, which required that one be removed to perform maintenance on the differential. The split bulkhead design that's included on the Kyosho and so many other cars is certainly preferred for ease of maintenance. The milled graphite brace atop the rear bulkheads is actually preferred over the aluminum one that is shown on Adachi’s prototype. It’s lighter and just as strong. With some people it’s a no-win situation because, had the aluminum upper brace remained, then the “too heavy, why so cheap – it should be graphite!!!!” complaints would surely have begun. The parts on the prototype are milled, but for the reasons already stated. Mr. Carter, you can certainly choose not to like the car based on your assumptions, but it appears you've already chosen a Hot Bodies car so your protests appear to be somewhat pointless. Even if you're still in the market and this car doesn't appeal to you, then simply don't buy it. The Cyclone is certainly a good car and you should do well with it. I may be going out on a limb here, but I think your time would be better spent sharing info about your Hot Bodies ride and enjoying some discussion with some people that also have a HB car. I know I wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to convince others that a car I don’t intend to buy is not as good as the car I did buy. People tend not to give much weight to the opinions of fan-boy critics anyhow, but at least you’ve made your opinion known. Now I'd be interested in feedback from those who own the car because at least that is based on actual experience. Here’s a new picture of the production TF-5 Stallion…
Adachi's car does have some differences between it and the production car. It's quite common and honestly expected that the production cars are not going to be the same as the prototypes. Parts are often milled instead of molded simply because developing a mold for a part that you aren't absolutely sure you're going to produce will cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Previous prototypes had solid bulkheads, which required that one be removed to perform maintenance on the differential. The split bulkhead design that's included on the Kyosho and so many other cars is certainly preferred for ease of maintenance. The milled graphite brace atop the rear bulkheads is actually preferred over the aluminum one that is shown on Adachi’s prototype. It’s lighter and just as strong. With some people it’s a no-win situation because, had the aluminum upper brace remained, then the “too heavy, why so cheap – it should be graphite!!!!” complaints would surely have begun. The parts on the prototype are milled, but for the reasons already stated. Mr. Carter, you can certainly choose not to like the car based on your assumptions, but it appears you've already chosen a Hot Bodies car so your protests appear to be somewhat pointless. Even if you're still in the market and this car doesn't appeal to you, then simply don't buy it. The Cyclone is certainly a good car and you should do well with it. I may be going out on a limb here, but I think your time would be better spent sharing info about your Hot Bodies ride and enjoying some discussion with some people that also have a HB car. I know I wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to convince others that a car I don’t intend to buy is not as good as the car I did buy. People tend not to give much weight to the opinions of fan-boy critics anyhow, but at least you’ve made your opinion known. Now I'd be interested in feedback from those who own the car because at least that is based on actual experience. Here’s a new picture of the production TF-5 Stallion…
Last edited by SteveP; 08-14-2006 at 10:46 PM.
08-14-2006, 11:04 PM
#860
Steve,
Thanks for posting the big pic of the the production version. It answers so many questions.
One other question - The suspension seems to be identical from everthing outboard of the bulkheads to that of the TF-5 shaft drive. So since its practically the same components how will the belt drive handle any different?
Can you be specific in terms of weight distribution? Steering geometry? Etc. Etc?
BTW, I have the TF-5 shaft drive which I like but it seems a bit too well planted in the rear causing it to corner somewhat choppy on sweepers and keyholes. My belt driven XRay T2 seems to corner more smoothly using the same set-up. Not sure if it is a BD vs. SD issue or XRay vs. Kyosho issue. Perhaps there is more tranny drag on the SD than there is on the BD which would be the cause of the choppiness?
Thanks for posting the big pic of the the production version. It answers so many questions.
One other question - The suspension seems to be identical from everthing outboard of the bulkheads to that of the TF-5 shaft drive. So since its practically the same components how will the belt drive handle any different?
Can you be specific in terms of weight distribution? Steering geometry? Etc. Etc?
BTW, I have the TF-5 shaft drive which I like but it seems a bit too well planted in the rear causing it to corner somewhat choppy on sweepers and keyholes. My belt driven XRay T2 seems to corner more smoothly using the same set-up. Not sure if it is a BD vs. SD issue or XRay vs. Kyosho issue. Perhaps there is more tranny drag on the SD than there is on the BD which would be the cause of the choppiness?
08-15-2006, 12:47 AM
#861
Originally Posted by SteveP
I think there's some confusion about the parts being referred to in this discussion. Yes, the TF-5 will come with aluminum bulkheads. I think our resident Hot Bodies fan is referring to the molded caps that now sit atop the aluminum bulkheads.
Adachi's car does have some differences between it and the production car. It's quite common and honestly expected that the production cars are not going to be the same as the prototypes. Parts are often milled instead of molded simply because developing a mold for a part that you aren't absolutely sure you're going to produce will cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Previous prototypes had solid bulkheads, which required that one be removed to perform maintenance on the differential. The split bulkhead design that's included on the Kyosho and so many other cars is certainly preferred for ease of maintenance. The milled graphite brace atop the rear bulkheads is actually preferred over the aluminum one that is shown on Adachi’s prototype. It’s lighter and just as strong. With some people it’s a no-win situation because, had the aluminum upper brace remained, then the “too heavy, why so cheap – it should be graphite!!!!” complaints would surely have begun. The parts on the prototype are milled, but for the reasons already stated. Mr. Carter, you can certainly choose not to like the car based on your assumptions, but it appears you've already chosen a Hot Bodies car so your protests appear to be somewhat pointless. Even if you're still in the market and this car doesn't appeal to you, then simply don't buy it. The Cyclone is certainly a good car and you should do well with it. I may be going out on a limb here, but I think your time would be better spent sharing info about your Hot Bodies ride and enjoying some discussion with some people that also have a HB car. I know I wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to convince others that a car I don’t intend to buy is not as good as the car I did buy. People tend not to give much weight to the opinions of fan-boy critics anyhow, but at least you’ve made your opinion known. Now I'd be interested in feedback from those who own the car because at least that is based on actual experience. Here’s a new picture of the production TF-5 Stallion…
Adachi's car does have some differences between it and the production car. It's quite common and honestly expected that the production cars are not going to be the same as the prototypes. Parts are often milled instead of molded simply because developing a mold for a part that you aren't absolutely sure you're going to produce will cost in the tens of thousands of dollars. Previous prototypes had solid bulkheads, which required that one be removed to perform maintenance on the differential. The split bulkhead design that's included on the Kyosho and so many other cars is certainly preferred for ease of maintenance. The milled graphite brace atop the rear bulkheads is actually preferred over the aluminum one that is shown on Adachi’s prototype. It’s lighter and just as strong. With some people it’s a no-win situation because, had the aluminum upper brace remained, then the “too heavy, why so cheap – it should be graphite!!!!” complaints would surely have begun. The parts on the prototype are milled, but for the reasons already stated. Mr. Carter, you can certainly choose not to like the car based on your assumptions, but it appears you've already chosen a Hot Bodies car so your protests appear to be somewhat pointless. Even if you're still in the market and this car doesn't appeal to you, then simply don't buy it. The Cyclone is certainly a good car and you should do well with it. I may be going out on a limb here, but I think your time would be better spent sharing info about your Hot Bodies ride and enjoying some discussion with some people that also have a HB car. I know I wouldn’t be wasting my time trying to convince others that a car I don’t intend to buy is not as good as the car I did buy. People tend not to give much weight to the opinions of fan-boy critics anyhow, but at least you’ve made your opinion known. Now I'd be interested in feedback from those who own the car because at least that is based on actual experience. Here’s a new picture of the production TF-5 Stallion…
Another thing is, why did they go into the trouble of moulding a part that can be easily machined with better tolerances ? Don't tell me cost, the car's more expensive than the opposition, which have aluminium top bulkheads, besides it costs a lot of money to produce a mold.
Don't get me wrong, I'm getting the car as soon as it hits my LHS but I'm a bit disappointed that I'll have to buy extra parts like a spur gear holder and the top bulkheads when (and if) they come out in aluminium, especially for the most expensive car on the market.
08-15-2006, 02:04 AM
#862
TRF415Boy - Let's not start wars over the weight of plastic versus aluminium. It's a fact that plastic is lighter by volume than aluminium, don't bother hypothesising about whether you could make the aluminium smaller, and what effect that would have on the CG.
YR4Dude - The Stallion will handle differently simply because it is belt drive. Weight distribution won't be identical either. And, if I understand correctly, why are you putting an XRAY setup on a Kyosho? Each car needs it's own setup to perform at it's best.
YR4Dude - The Stallion will handle differently simply because it is belt drive. Weight distribution won't be identical either. And, if I understand correctly, why are you putting an XRAY setup on a Kyosho? Each car needs it's own setup to perform at it's best.
08-15-2006, 02:14 AM
#863
Sosidge : it's a fact, these plastic parts have a lot more material than the aluminium ones, and most of the added material is very high up. And whilst they might be still lighter than aluminium parts, weight isn't the only thing to consider, it's where the weight is placed that matters. Anyway my point was that for the price they could have done like all the other companies and provided us with nice red alloy top bulkheads (same goes with the spur gear holder).
08-15-2006, 08:07 AM
#865
Correction: Sosidge - I meant similar setup. There is no way possible I would replicate the exact setup on my XRay to the TF-5
However, as to the choppiness around the turns, it seems like I have to bump the throttle more to get it around a keyhole turn where the XRay just cruises. Does this have anything to do with the inertia differences of belts vs. shaft? Is it because the belt stays running longer once it starts spinning? Is it because the shaft comes to speed quickly yet slows just as quick?
The belt drive is a nice looking car but it needs to light a track on fire to be more convincing.
However, as to the choppiness around the turns, it seems like I have to bump the throttle more to get it around a keyhole turn where the XRay just cruises. Does this have anything to do with the inertia differences of belts vs. shaft? Is it because the belt stays running longer once it starts spinning? Is it because the shaft comes to speed quickly yet slows just as quick?
The belt drive is a nice looking car but it needs to light a track on fire to be more convincing.
08-15-2006, 10:12 AM
#866
Probably the belt has more inertia than the shaft, so would tend to slow the car down faster if you lift off the throttle. Part of it may be the torque steer effect of the shaft system.
More likely is that you have a little too much understeer. Try a softer front end to get the nose into the corner a bit harder.
More likely is that you have a little too much understeer. Try a softer front end to get the nose into the corner a bit harder.
08-15-2006, 11:17 AM
#867
WOW! You always seemed to be so layed back Mr. Pond!
Talk to ya soon.
Talk to ya soon.
08-15-2006, 11:27 PM
#868
Who? ME?! LOL Don't read into it, just trying to point out what is probably already obvious to most of the reasonable folks on the forum. Give me a ring some time and let me know that you haven't been eaten by an F5. 
Don't read into it, just trying to point out what is probably already obvious to most of the reasonable folks on the forum. Give me a ring some time and let me know that you haven't been eaten by an F5.
08-16-2006, 06:51 PM
#870
Originally Posted by Scrad
Does the tf-5 come with phillips or hex screw? Should I get any extra's or hopups that would make the kit more user friendly.
i just flip through the manual of the TF5 Stallion at my LHS, seems like this car's quite adjustable. you can adjust the differential height for BOTH fron and rear axles. ackerman is adjustable via steering post mounting (Xray style) and via using different plates on the servo saver (V1RRR style) as well as the usual way via the steering knuckle. the only thing holding me back from buying it was the price though, its more ex than the MRE kit, almost on par with the blue/purple cyclones.
