Spec/Handout Speedo thoughts
 

I just returned from the ETS race in Poland. In that series they use handout 13.5 motors and everyone must run a Speed Passion Citrix (60.00 speedo). The motors are bought there and you must return it at the end of the race and get it back at the next event (you get the same motor if you purchase it or you can rent a motor each race). The speedo you can buy anywhere (or rent one for the weekend very cheaply) as long as its the correct part number.

My question is this. With so many people complaining about speedos and such here why have we not adapted to a variation of this speedo rule here? All cars were very close in speed, no one complained about freaking software all week (Damn it was nice not having to listen to that crap all week) and the racing was very very close. Not to mention there were 96 entries in the Stock Class!

I for one am a Fan.....Sorry speedo companies but the US needs to get with the program and get some stuff set in stone.

No arguing, no flamming, no idiot comments. Just honest fair opinions on the subject.

If it turns in to a bi''ch fest or argument I'll have your comments deleted and thread closed by Marcos. If you cant contribute constructive opinions then read and leave please.

EA

Also before its brought up there is already one company willing to do the rental program in the US to use their speedo for races. I guess its more of if the racers in the US would go along with it.

EA

Great idea for the "entry level" class in each scale.

Are the motors locked timing/sealed? If so that would prevent rotor swapping, or installation of ceramic bearings, only to have them changed back before handing the motor in.

I personally love the spec esc idea. I'd be in favor of a spec motor as long as the stators and rotors were measured/checked to be very close across all the handouts. They would not need to be top 10% picked motors, just very similar on the numbers.

Marty Miller

Yes. Motors are sealed and timing is fixed at 10 degrees. Cant be changed or tampered with.

EA

Stock is still considered Entry level. Over there at ETS its called Pro Stock though. Its the only class offered and no one complains about it at all!

EA

All motors and rotors are checked before they are handed out to ensure they are close. Never heard anyone complain about motors all week. The only grumble I heard was that they have a 4.50 max/min gear ratio and some guys were saying people were running a 4.49. :lol:

EA

I like the Spec motor idea as well but it may be to expensive to do spec speedo and motor for one race. Over there they use it at all races so its more economical. But if we could get all the US on the same page (large races) it could work out very well for everyone and simplify a lot of things.

EA

EA....you do know we have been doing ETS for years, and TITC at Thailand (open brushless 13.5 class....130 plus entry), and even ATS over Asia. I always wish to bring that idea to US but, it is just complicated.

The only big event that you can see something similar is IIC hosted by Scotty (we did the amature class with hand out motor)....and I really think Scotty is the one can make that happen.

P.S....you did good at the ETS Poland, well done.

FINE IDEA
 

Yes any thing that brings the focus back to the drivers and their ability to drive/set up a car is always a good result....even tyres should be regulated and goop banned...
But somethings you simply cant control.
HOW TO STOP GOOPING OUTSIDE THE TRACK ENVIROMENT
PEOPLES PERSONEL PREFFERANCE RE SPEED CONTROLS
But i do feel aussies are feeling te same pain as some of the tracks are bigger than our class systems so their are thoughts that some tracks should have a spotstsman esc and handout motors which could solve the issues re speed at big tracks.
Thus at a big track the handout class might be 10.5 and at a tight track 17.5..
The only problem is you end up disinnfranchising suppliers who arnt allowed to support the events.
BUT I LOVE THE IDEA AS being A DAD iknow what to buy and a level playing field shows of GREAT RACING

Yes I do know this and I just arrived home from Poland ETS race and raced there. It works so great over there and is why I am asking here to see how it would be accepted in the US if someone were to try and do it.

From someone who participated I would like to THANK Speed Passion for stepping up and helping the ETS and TITC make this happen! Maybe someone in the US will attempt it one day.

EA

If two of the three "Majors" were to do it, opinion might be swayed enough.
I think it would require a major manufacturer commitment though.

I'm not the biggest fan of the "one make" speedo idea. I think "non-updatable" speedos from each mfg. would work just as well. Just submit for approval before the season starts. Anything not approved before the season start date wouldn't be legal.........

My knee jerk reaction as to why this couldn't been done here like over there is the same reason why our healthcare system could never be like over there...money.

Money shouldnt be an issue. 60.00 for a speedo that drives better than most others out there and is just as fast!

EA

Nope...Leave it to one manufacture.....Manufactures can bid on each event. If they loose they are not allowed in. Its how handout brushed motors were done back in the day and no one complained....much...LOL

EA

I agree the money wouldn't be an issue for drivers but it would be the manfacturers who would feel "left out."

EA is a changed man!

I'll gladly thow down $60 not to hear any more talk about speedo type, software, approved ESC's, etc, at big races. It will make for a more enjoyable race IMO. I see this as a good thing for all spec classes, not just "entry level" or "amatuer" - anything without boost. I don't care what speedo it is .. if the Citrix is $60 and some other manufacturer can do it for that price, then so be it.

Thing is .. manufacturer's should like this idea, introduce someone to your speedo at a cheap price and manybe in the future they'll buy more of your product line. As for which speedo? This is just like choosing which handout motor or handout tire .. the best priced speedo for the customer gets the deal.

I really like the idea....just asking how much was it to buy the motor for the event and how much to rent it? Same thing for ESC how much was it to Rent and to Own?

Also how much was your entry fee into this race just looking at it compaired to other races here in the US?

Novak did this when they first came out with Brushless systems you could rent them at the Novak AKA US Touring Car Champs.

It's hard for me to get excited about a rule that could force me to run something like Tekin with its Tinker Toy throttle response. I know it's probably for the greater good of racing, but I'm selfish that way.

How did they tech this quickly?? A go - nogo gauge for 48P and 64P?

Honestly IMO.....SO....Its for the better of racing. If they want to compete make a good speedo that will work and make it cheap. Others can do it and it works great.

EA

To buy the motor (and its yours for the entire series to use if you return it at the end of the race and your only allowed one unless you blow it up) it was 50.00 Euro (about 65.00) If you were not coming back to another event you could take it with you if you bought it. To rent it I think it was 10 Euro. Speedo was same to buy or rent. Speedo you did not have to return if you bought it.

Entry fee was 50 Euro and came with a set of tires I believe.

EA

Calculator....LOL. It was a spot check thing...but really a 4.50 was way to much gear for the track. Most were around a 4.60.

EA

I agree.

+1

We tried it locally and it didn't work out.

Hey EA, Sounds Like a Great Idea. It Would be interesting to see how it would work here in the U.S. It wouldn't hurt to try to see how it pans out.

Can you be more specific?

I know this won't be received well but ,
as a racer paying for everything I have to race, I would tend to avoid these type of races, not that i go to a lot of them now, because i have spent my money to be able to race at my local track, (car, electrics etc....).
Then to attend a dream race like the Nats or so, it would be adding expenses to what already takes almost a year to save for( travel lodging, food, extras.)
i think we worry too much about what is in the car instead of teaching how to tune the car. I can give Eric my car and with the same set up that i can't T.Q. with he can. Skil land knowledge can not be regulated and these are the two most important things to be a great racer. We try too much to regulate everything and don't foster the idea of getting good and building the skills.
A $2,000 race car in the hands of a rookie will perform no better for then a $200. car, you must learn to steer before you can drive.
ok you can turn on the flame throwers now, I'm done:D

It would be the same as it was when we had hand out motors before. The MFGs would have to bid on it and the one would win for that race. This isnt going to hurt their sales they are still going to sell product outside of the event. I mean there was races that used the Reedy FireHawk as a hand out motor yet Trinity, Orion etc still sold all kinds of motors. And really this is going on right now with the ETS...do you see Orion, LRP or Novak complaining about it because SpeedPassion is doing this for the ETS?

So the Entry fee was about 65 US dollars...WOW there is something really wrong here in the US if they are able to get all this done over there and the races here the entry fee is sometimes double or more then that. Hats off to them they got something done right....sucks to be anyone here in the US looking at this from the outside now.

there was this one old guy on a thread a while back suggesting just this very thing.:D

its a great idea. gets that playing field just a little more level. (of course, not many really want that)

Even disregarding the level playing field (which doesn't matter to me) it could be cheaper for the racer AND take some "headaches" away in terms of buying/testing electronics.

Show up, pay a reasonable fee, and burn laps.... sounds good to me. If I get stuck with junk electronics at least everyone else is, too :D

I believe with a handout speedo and motor .. your left with setup and driving .. this would foster the core ideas your trying to promote which I am a fan of.

It reminded me about why Europe/Asia can have SKYLINE GT-R , Subaru 22B, Mitshibitshi EVO like 10+ years before US imported them recently....does American cannot afford them? Or we cannot handle that kinda power or we don't have the road for these import?

There is always the SOMEONE preventing this happening...and that has to do with MONEY and PROFIT.....

They Citrix is far from junk. I put it in at home after the birds and went faster with it than my other stuff. It's so much easier to drive. Just super smooth and works.

EA

I wouldn't be opposed to this, I actually think if done right, it could improve the numbers racing and trying to race. The cheaper the class, the more likely to see someone try it.... I've seen that first hand where we race. It's hard to get new people to try a $400 kit plus all the electronics. We're talking about doing a locked motor, blinky (non-programmable preffered) esc class. Our goal is to get people in and racing competitively on a relative budget. I priced everything out including a new TC4 kit or sakura zero S and you can get all in with decent equipment for around $400.

Personally, I have two Novak Edge's. I really like the feel of the ESC. The problem I have is with the programming. If you can remember the order of the blinking lights for all of the different settings, you're good to go. However, I don't know anyone who can. I generally also have a book to help, but in a pinch right before the start of the race you could be SOL. Been there, done that. My only request with a ESC handout like this, is that for the programming options that are there, its simple to use. For example (Cirtix, HobbyWing Justock) should have a programming card to simplify drag brake and other adjustments people may use. I can say that in blinky, my novak has been just as competitive as my LRP SXX in both touring and 1/12.

It's a great idea, but I can see several locals unwilling to race this way. We'd have to work on that, as would everywhere else. Different tracks can run different classes, so it'd be hard to say, we're running this class throughout the country, and this only.... like their locked motor and handout esc class.

I think its a great idea. I already run a cirtix stock in 17.5 blinky. Best 60 bucks I have spent.

I'd like to see races like the RCR Endurance Series 1 race.

I can't add URLs, so you will have to search youtube for it

Tan

I like it. A handshake agreement from the major event holders, a closed bid for ESC and motor combo from the mfgs and the ameture class is set for the next year. Race it and get practice locally and be ready for a large event when and if the time comes.