Spec/Handout Speedo thoughts
04-26-2012, 09:47 AM
#301
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The reason I say run mod is because it eliminates everything people are complaining about. You choose exactly how fast you want to go. Of course I can see how mod isn't popular because it is hard to drive and 99% of the people will choose to run faster motors than they should. I know better and run a higher wind and reduced power settings on my ESC because this is what I can handle.
Another reason they don't run mod is lack of knowledge about it. I have done quite a bit of 17.5 club racing lately plus some 13.5 at the Nats last year. It takes way better (and fresher) batteries and motor to be competitive in stock. Mod may be harder on equipment. But stock requires that the equipment be in better condition and changed more frequently.
Another reason they don't run mod is lack of knowledge about it. I have done quite a bit of 17.5 club racing lately plus some 13.5 at the Nats last year. It takes way better (and fresher) batteries and motor to be competitive in stock. Mod may be harder on equipment. But stock requires that the equipment be in better condition and changed more frequently.
Does stock take way better batteries and motors because there is more competition in stock then there is in Mod? Rick...you are one of 3 mod racers in the states that realistically have a shot at winning a mod race here. So to you your perception might be skewed somewhat because you will be able to get to front over the rest of the guys inspite of your equipment. But in the stock class where there are more racers racing this class at higher level you need to be on the top of your game and equipment so could that be why you see it as being more important? When you go to the worlds are you showing up racing with your 5 or 8 month old packs and motors and expecting to win? Lets be realistic that the Mod class here in the US is poor at best…there is only 3 racers here that have a shot at the win. In the stock/Spec classes the talent pool is much deeper and most races there are about 7 to 10 guys who all have a shot at a top 3 finish….where this isn’t the case with mod. So for people to keep saying mod is the answer it isn’t. From my point of view racing stock seems like a better fit for the majority of racers there are far more people to race with and be competitive with then there is in mod. Yeah its super fun to run mod but when the back half of the mod A main is slower than the stock main there is a problem don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that if you raced in the 17.5 or stock class that it would be a much better race? I just dont think Mod is the answer that we need....if it is then we need larger tracks until then Stock/Spec will always be the larger classes in on-road.
04-26-2012, 10:10 AM
#303
There will always be something to complain about...lol.
Does stock take way better batteries and motors because there is more competition in stock then there is in Mod? Rick...you are one of 3 mod racers in the states that realistically have a shot at winning a mod race here. So to you your perception might be skewed somewhat because you will be able to get to front over the rest of the guys inspite of your equipment. But in the stock class where there are more racers racing this class at higher level you need to be on the top of your game and equipment so could that be why you see it as being more important? When you go to the worlds are you showing up racing with your 5 or 8 month old packs and motors and expecting to win? Lets be realistic that the Mod class here in the US is poor at best…there is only 3 racers here that have a shot at the win. In the stock/Spec classes the talent pool is much deeper and most races there are about 7 to 10 guys who all have a shot at a top 3 finish….where this isn’t the case with mod. So for people to keep saying mod is the answer it isn’t. From my point of view racing stock seems like a better fit for the majority of racers there are far more people to race with and be competitive with then there is in mod. Yeah its super fun to run mod but when the back half of the mod A main is slower than the stock main there is a problem don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that if you raced in the 17.5 or stock class that it would be a much better race? I just dont think Mod is the answer that we need....if it is then we need larger tracks until then Stock/Spec will always be the larger classes in on-road.
Does stock take way better batteries and motors because there is more competition in stock then there is in Mod? Rick...you are one of 3 mod racers in the states that realistically have a shot at winning a mod race here. So to you your perception might be skewed somewhat because you will be able to get to front over the rest of the guys inspite of your equipment. But in the stock class where there are more racers racing this class at higher level you need to be on the top of your game and equipment so could that be why you see it as being more important? When you go to the worlds are you showing up racing with your 5 or 8 month old packs and motors and expecting to win? Lets be realistic that the Mod class here in the US is poor at best…there is only 3 racers here that have a shot at the win. In the stock/Spec classes the talent pool is much deeper and most races there are about 7 to 10 guys who all have a shot at a top 3 finish….where this isn’t the case with mod. So for people to keep saying mod is the answer it isn’t. From my point of view racing stock seems like a better fit for the majority of racers there are far more people to race with and be competitive with then there is in mod. Yeah its super fun to run mod but when the back half of the mod A main is slower than the stock main there is a problem don’t you think? Wouldn’t it be reasonable to think that if you raced in the 17.5 or stock class that it would be a much better race? I just dont think Mod is the answer that we need....if it is then we need larger tracks until then Stock/Spec will always be the larger classes in on-road.
04-26-2012, 10:18 AM
#304
This is one of the biggest reasons why I dislike blinky. Motor and battery deficiencies become far more apparent and it has nothing to do with the size of the talent pool. Fresh motors(or at least rotors) and batteries are very noticeable when it means going lets say 22mph on the straight instead of 20. It's also noticeable in the infield since even there you are at full throttle most of the time. With mod, basically everyone has far more power than they can use effectively, so it comes down to who can use it the most effectively without over driving their car. I was running a 4.5 on small tracks up until very recently. It was overkill and I knew it, but it was a lot of fun. Difficult to be consistent though. I'm learning I'm often faster with a higher turn motor because it is much easier to wheel through the infield. My mod car just has a boosted 13.5 in it right now. The track I'll be mainly racing this setup on is only 80x30 though. If I make it to leisure hours for the paved nats, you can bet I'll be running a boosted 4.5 there.
04-26-2012, 10:53 AM
#305
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This is one of the biggest reasons why I dislike blinky. Motor and battery deficiencies become far more apparent and it has nothing to do with the size of the talent pool. Fresh motors(or at least rotors) and batteries are very noticeable when it means going lets say 22mph on the straight instead of 20. It's also noticeable in the infield since even there you are at full throttle most of the time. With mod, basically everyone has far more power than they can use effectively, so it comes down to who can use it the most effectively without over driving their car. I was running a 4.5 on small tracks up until very recently. It was overkill and I knew it, but it was a lot of fun. Difficult to be consistent though. I'm learning I'm often faster with a higher turn motor because it is much easier to wheel through the infield. My mod car just has a boosted 13.5 in it right now. The track I'll be mainly racing this setup on is only 80x30 though. If I make it to leisure hours for the paved nats, you can bet I'll be running a boosted 4.5 there.
04-26-2012, 11:05 AM
#306
It has everything to do with the talent pool. If everyone started to race mod…then all the issues that you see in spec would be the same issues in mod…New motors and Batteries would matter just as much as they do in stock this is a part of racing and it will never change unless you take it out of equation…with hand out motors and such. If everyone is running 4.5 motors just saying...then the guy with the fastest 4.5 is king. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that motors and batteries don’t matter in mod…they only don’t matter at this stage because the pool isn’t that deep….once it gets deeper it will matter like it always has. Maybe you guys were not around when there was more than 1 or 2 mains at a ROAR nationals but when there was I can guarantee that your motors and batteries mattered….they don’t now because the talent level or pool is lowered.
Another point when Alex was here at my track practicing mod 12th scale he got his car very good at our track and said that he was happy with it. I had him put one of my batteries in versuse what he was using and he went .15 faster average per lap. Ran again with his battery and he slowed back down. No other changes.
So yea at the top level when the talent pool is deep motors and batteries make a difference.
EA
04-27-2012, 11:31 AM
#307
Class verses class , is this how we are going to decide who's the best drivers ?
A promise from me , just one racer but many Mod racers feel the same as me ..
Will never spend a dime on or support spec class's ...
My teammates with years of racing on their belts are not even considering stepping down ..
So I think 17.5 is just a flash in the pan for now.
By next year when they start the new 21.5 stock class's ?
Mod class's will grow even stronger....
Will never spend a dime on or support spec class's ...
My teammates with years of racing on their belts are not even considering stepping down ..
So I think 17.5 is just a flash in the pan for now.
By next year when they start the new 21.5 stock class's ?
Mod class's will grow even stronger....
04-27-2012, 11:55 AM
#309
Class verses class , is this how we are going to decide who's the best drivers ?
James , you don't realize they are already talking about switching to slower stock motors again ie 21.5 ?
04-27-2012, 12:55 PM
#310
The 21.5 worked great at Timezone last year for the "Sportsman" stock class or what ever it was called. Guys liked it there.
EA
04-27-2012, 12:56 PM
#311
Tech Fanatic
EA enjoys using handout kit for a meeting. I don't mind either way, since I have yet to see any difference between the blinky speedos, and the BRCA and ROAR are in the throes of tightening up these rules and the testing regime. We have switched to blinky in the UK and the same drivers are at the top as before using a wide range of speedos and motors.
Rick is a Mod man (!) and so are many of the drivers over here. I can see their point too. Not fast enough? Motor up. Too fast? Motor down, a la Rick. It's self-regulating. It has one drawback for me - I can't get even close to putting up a decent show of car control at any speed likely to be more than a mobile chicane! It's not an option for me as I have no fun trying to keep a Mod car on the track.
If anyone thinks that the use of standard equipment will level the playing field they are living in cloud cuckoo land. There is no such thing, and it can never be achieved. Even if everyone had new kit, manufacturing tolerances mean that one car would be factionally faster or slower than another.
I am happy to race handouts. However, that does not mean a level playing field which is what people seem to be inferring.
Rick is a Mod man (!) and so are many of the drivers over here. I can see their point too. Not fast enough? Motor up. Too fast? Motor down, a la Rick. It's self-regulating. It has one drawback for me - I can't get even close to putting up a decent show of car control at any speed likely to be more than a mobile chicane! It's not an option for me as I have no fun trying to keep a Mod car on the track.
If anyone thinks that the use of standard equipment will level the playing field they are living in cloud cuckoo land. There is no such thing, and it can never be achieved. Even if everyone had new kit, manufacturing tolerances mean that one car would be factionally faster or slower than another.
I am happy to race handouts. However, that does not mean a level playing field which is what people seem to be inferring.
04-27-2012, 12:58 PM
#312
By definition, Mod is the best motor for the track conditions. A 13.5 on the right track is better than a 5.5 that can't get traction down, where as a 5.5 on an open flowing track makes a 13.5 look slow.
By misunderstanding, Mod is the lowest wind motor you can make work in your car. Even if it's and undriveable pig. Experienced Mod drivers understand this is WRONG, but don't make enough mention of it. There are varying levels of n00bs in RC and the step to a Mod class from any other class is HUGE experience wise!
By definition, spec (specification) defines every part you are allowed use for that specific racing event. It does not define the class, but the car type, motor and electronics that will be allowed to race.
By misunderstanding, spec and stock are not the same thing. Stock is a designated motor limitation established by a rules governing organization, such as ROAR, BRRCA or your local race director. IE; they do not specify which motor, but designate the motor wind limit. Spec and stock can under certain circumstances be the same thing, like the event EA attended.
I still think a spec race at large event would open some eyes. So, I'm all for it. It pits skill against skill and not wallet against wallet.
EA, can you give us a rundown of what the the typical racer's checklist looked like from the event?
By misunderstanding, Mod is the lowest wind motor you can make work in your car. Even if it's and undriveable pig. Experienced Mod drivers understand this is WRONG, but don't make enough mention of it. There are varying levels of n00bs in RC and the step to a Mod class from any other class is HUGE experience wise!
By definition, spec (specification) defines every part you are allowed use for that specific racing event. It does not define the class, but the car type, motor and electronics that will be allowed to race.
By misunderstanding, spec and stock are not the same thing. Stock is a designated motor limitation established by a rules governing organization, such as ROAR, BRRCA or your local race director. IE; they do not specify which motor, but designate the motor wind limit. Spec and stock can under certain circumstances be the same thing, like the event EA attended.
I still think a spec race at large event would open some eyes. So, I'm all for it. It pits skill against skill and not wallet against wallet.
EA, can you give us a rundown of what the the typical racer's checklist looked like from the event?
04-27-2012, 01:04 PM
#314
Silly! I mean, break down how they went through the car and prepped it. You said most of the guys were really sticklers for going through their cars before the next heat. I check for breakage/tweak, check caster and camber, shock rebound, bearing, gear mesh, clean tires and charge, but you made it sound like they were more methodical, down to a science kind of thing.
04-27-2012, 01:17 PM
#315
Silly! I mean, break down how they went through the car and prepped it. You said most of the guys were really sticklers for going through their cars before the next heat. I check for breakage/tweak, check caster and camber, shock rebound, bearing, gear mesh, clean tires and charge, but you made it sound like they were more methodical, down to a science kind of thing.
Yes those guys did things different than what I see "most" racers do here. After each run the first thing they did was clean their tires. They all used the exact same brake cleaner for it. Not sure if its all that is available or more to it. Then everyone takes their tires off their cars and lets them sit on a paper towel. Not sure why on a paper towel but they did. Then they loosen every screw on the top deck and chassis and let the car sit on either a flat alumn car stand (no one uses foam car stands) or the 10mm droop blocks. They all of course took the battery out but left motor in. They went over the entire car and many rebuilt shocks every run. Not sure if it was setup changes or maintnance. I do know that almost everyone had a Hudy or Much more Temp gauge/Timer in the pits watching the temp and humidity. They reglued their tires every run and checked for peeling. Went on the setup station after every single run. Go completely through the cars and check bearings, check for slop, rebuild/lube CVD's, etc.
After everything was back together and checked droop and such on the gauges they put the tires on and checked ride height and tweak then took the tires back off and put them on the paper towel. Once it was time to dope the tires they doped them and sat them back on the towel again. They used the timers and temp to determine how long to leave the sauce on and which tires got it longer (front or rear). 2 heats before they were up they put the tires back on and went through the car again without letting the tires touch anything (They were sticklers for this). They went as far as whiping the tires off in the same order they put the sauce on to make sure it was equal.
It just seemed like they were a lot more meticulous than any one around here. Im pretty meticulous about my car and I felt like I was out of place there! LOL Just a whole different atmosphere but everyone was super nice and friendly. They all race a lot more clean on the track than here too but part of that I think is due to the fact they use dots and not walls. They didnt tap a wall or flapper and blow out in front of someone. If you hit a dot it usually had a spot on the inside of it that you ended up and not in the race line. Or it shot you across the track out of the line and not collecting the 3 cars behind you.
Hopefully this is what you were looking for.
EA