View Poll Results: what's your tire choice?
Protoform
46
30.67%
HPI
104
69.33%
Voters: 150. You may not vote on this poll
4325LikesU.S. Vintage Trans-Am Racing Part 2
03-29-2018, 07:33 AM
okay guys...good reads here....
1. tires where tested both indoor and outdoors
2. let the HPI tires run till they are gone, the advantage will come back to the racers already running the PF's, once they are gone
3. Ive said this before, patients is the key....who said PF isn't looking to make a 2nd tire?...or that the USVTA isn't allowing HPI for outdoors and PF indoors. You have to remember all of this gets looked at all the time...this thread gets attention ALL the time
thanks and lets see what happens
1. tires where tested both indoor and outdoors
2. let the HPI tires run till they are gone, the advantage will come back to the racers already running the PF's, once they are gone
3. Ive said this before, patients is the key....who said PF isn't looking to make a 2nd tire?...or that the USVTA isn't allowing HPI for outdoors and PF indoors. You have to remember all of this gets looked at all the time...this thread gets attention ALL the time
thanks and lets see what happens
We know and understand that the racers n racing are the number one concern and hope that our issues will be addressed.
To repeat what Scott has stated, soaking or softening of the tires is illegal.
The correct path is to address the problem and try getting a more suitable tire for asphalt.
03-29-2018, 08:11 AM
In the time that I raced as a member of SFEAR (South Florida Electric Auto Racers) we carried our track in a trailer and set it up wherever we had permission. We had a big gas blower to "treat" the surface and we raced on it. Traction additives at that time went from Ipecac then onto Coppertone and oil of Wintergreen and finally PJ1 chain lube before I moved on to 1/8 on road. Then ROAR wised up and came out with the cotton ball test. If the ball stuck to the tire you didn't go on track. Simple as that. It was what it was and we all coped with it. Once I was fully involved with 1/8 we would travel to Fort Myers and race at a temporary track at the Edison Mall and at Heller's Transmissions in St. Pete, a permanent facility out behind the shop. Yes, we were on foams with two compounds available that I remember. Yellows and greens. There was a red I think but they wouldn't last through a 5 minute qualifier. We never put anything on the tires and I never saw anybody do anything additional to the surface. Traction was always hit or miss but by the time the mains rolled around there was enough Castor oil from the exhaust to sticky up the track.
A year or so into it we hosted a race in Ft. Lauderdale(Sunrise actually) at a school near my home. It was an oval since there was an oval parking section that gave us a Martinsville paper clip type layout. it was paved with good old fashioned coral rock asphalt and pretty smooth. We blew it off and had at it. There was so much accumulated sand down in the pores of the pavement that the cars left rooster tails and you couldn't turn in a 40 acre field. Out of desperation we went up the street to the fire station and asked if they could come and hose the surface off for us and call it a training exercise(it was the 80's). They did and washed out so much additional sand that you could shovel it. When it dried in about a half hour(summer time in South Florida) the traction was so high that you could flip a gas car in the corners. From that time on we would always wash down the racing surface with as much pressure as we could muster to provide a "good" racing surface.
The point I am trying to make to the Florida guys in particular is you can't get solid test results on a sub par surface(I am speaking of outdoors only). As far as treating the tires to an overnight chemical bath prior to using them, I only do it once when they are new. After that it is just make sure they are clean and dry and have at it. You will be surprised at the result. Is it against USVTA rules? I don't know. I guess I should look. But everywhere I have ever raced except the Hobby Connection I have gotten a chemical buzz from just walking through the room.
Give the pressure washing a try. You will be astonished at the sand and debris that comes out of it. It will take some effort on the part of the track owner or promoter or the racers for that fact but you will like the result. Just give it a try.
As far as a pink slip challenge goes, at my age I can't drive a nail in the dirt and I'm afraid to try to drive a fart through my underwear. What I am trying to do is pass along very old methods and information that might make it easier for you kids to get a handle on a perplexing situation. Or at least take a step in the right direction. The least you could do is try it unless the physical effort is beyond your capabilities. Hey, there might even be an "app" for it.
A year or so into it we hosted a race in Ft. Lauderdale(Sunrise actually) at a school near my home. It was an oval since there was an oval parking section that gave us a Martinsville paper clip type layout. it was paved with good old fashioned coral rock asphalt and pretty smooth. We blew it off and had at it. There was so much accumulated sand down in the pores of the pavement that the cars left rooster tails and you couldn't turn in a 40 acre field. Out of desperation we went up the street to the fire station and asked if they could come and hose the surface off for us and call it a training exercise(it was the 80's). They did and washed out so much additional sand that you could shovel it. When it dried in about a half hour(summer time in South Florida) the traction was so high that you could flip a gas car in the corners. From that time on we would always wash down the racing surface with as much pressure as we could muster to provide a "good" racing surface.
The point I am trying to make to the Florida guys in particular is you can't get solid test results on a sub par surface(I am speaking of outdoors only). As far as treating the tires to an overnight chemical bath prior to using them, I only do it once when they are new. After that it is just make sure they are clean and dry and have at it. You will be surprised at the result. Is it against USVTA rules? I don't know. I guess I should look. But everywhere I have ever raced except the Hobby Connection I have gotten a chemical buzz from just walking through the room.
Give the pressure washing a try. You will be astonished at the sand and debris that comes out of it. It will take some effort on the part of the track owner or promoter or the racers for that fact but you will like the result. Just give it a try.
As far as a pink slip challenge goes, at my age I can't drive a nail in the dirt and I'm afraid to try to drive a fart through my underwear. What I am trying to do is pass along very old methods and information that might make it easier for you kids to get a handle on a perplexing situation. Or at least take a step in the right direction. The least you could do is try it unless the physical effort is beyond your capabilities. Hey, there might even be an "app" for it.
03-29-2018, 08:36 AM
I was referring to this post specifically.
Mark - I understand what you're saying and don't dispute much of what you have said, however, to make the tires work by soaking them overnight to soften the rubber is still a violation of the rules. In real racing, there is no higher violation than illegally softening tires.
BUT - we will be having to do the same exact thing I would imagine.
DARKSIDE - Soul Glow (Coming to America) is going to be my new traction compound!
Mark - I understand what you're saying and don't dispute much of what you have said, however, to make the tires work by soaking them overnight to soften the rubber is still a violation of the rules. In real racing, there is no higher violation than illegally softening tires.
BUT - we will be having to do the same exact thing I would imagine.DARKSIDE - Soul Glow (Coming to America) is going to be my new traction compound!
03-29-2018, 08:51 AM
I own Valkaria RC and we just powerwashed the track, and installed F1 curbing.
We’ve helded ROAR n USVTA Nationals at our track.
My point is, we understand the need to prep the track and have a clean surface.
Our track has been consistent for five years and every other tire used for any class has ALWAYS worked, till now!
The track hasn’t changed, the tires have!
Please give us a product that works without having to use bubble gum, bandaids, or rubber bands.
The tire compound is the issue, not the tire design, or the track surface.
Let’s address the problem n correct it.
We’ve helded ROAR n USVTA Nationals at our track.
My point is, we understand the need to prep the track and have a clean surface.
Our track has been consistent for five years and every other tire used for any class has ALWAYS worked, till now!
The track hasn’t changed, the tires have!
Please give us a product that works without having to use bubble gum, bandaids, or rubber bands.
The tire compound is the issue, not the tire design, or the track surface.
Let’s address the problem n correct it.
03-29-2018, 09:02 AM
03-29-2018, 09:10 AM
I have a quik question?....
if..."IF" PF was to make a softer tire....wouldnt it wearout faster and cause an even bigger issue?
if..."IF" PF was to make a softer tire....wouldnt it wearout faster and cause an even bigger issue?
03-29-2018, 09:16 AM
One of the Tucson, Arizona racers stated that they were using Paragon Special FX. The Special FX was formulated to be used on rubber capped foam tires.
03-29-2018, 09:47 AM
If there is actually an issue with the PF tire I would think that it is in the transition between the tread and sidewall. It seems to have been constructed so as to reduce the amount of sidewall gluing. This added stiffness has reduced the compliance under load which to me creates a breakaway push in the front or a breakaway loose in the rear. If this problem raised it's head with the HPI's how would you address it? Though the end result may not be as satisfactory with the PF's it should take you in the right general direction.
03-29-2018, 09:53 AM
Shame Paragon went out of business but Trinity red dot works well on PF tires.
Myron softer tires would help because when you start treating the rubber with chemicals you are softening the tire and the wear goes up. Right now I run in a set of treated, PF tire many race weekends before I would attempt to race them. I have PF tires I save worn in just right for bigger races coming this year.
Mleemore is right about the sidewalł of the PF tire looks to be designed for carpet racing the the reason for a stiffer sidewalł. During the process of breaking in the tire we are weakening the sidewall making the tire more compliant.
Myron softer tires would help because when you start treating the rubber with chemicals you are softening the tire and the wear goes up. Right now I run in a set of treated, PF tire many race weekends before I would attempt to race them. I have PF tires I save worn in just right for bigger races coming this year.
Mleemore is right about the sidewalł of the PF tire looks to be designed for carpet racing the the reason for a stiffer sidewalł. During the process of breaking in the tire we are weakening the sidewall making the tire more compliant.
Last edited by vivo quevas; 03-29-2018 at 10:04 AM.
03-29-2018, 09:58 AM
The story is the same for all types of racing. Stickers or scuffs?
03-29-2018, 10:31 AM
We would have better traction.
No more doping of tires with secret chemicals.
The number one reason to make softer tire????
PF would make more $$$ and recoup their investment quicker.
Sounds like a win win to me...
How many TC tires do guys go through at a race? Some will put a new set on every round. Right now I can get at least two full race days on a set of HPI tires.
With the tires now guys will most likely get a whole season out of a set of tires on carpet. Will PF continue to make tires if they only sell a few hundred tires a year?? Volume will encourage them to justify making a softer tire.
03-29-2018, 10:41 AM
I WAS worried about the change to ProtoForm VTA tires. You must adjust your driving style and braking points.
We didn't soak tires or go overboard on treatment. I just rub them with something Polyisobutene based ,and run the car.
After the first day with everyone running them, no issues , good traction , very little wear.
Yes , the limit of the cars are now a little slower , but not much. Touching while passing is a little hairier.
We run on an old full scale racetrack, very rough , low traction ,half the turns have negative banking. Max ground clearance, no sway bars, high roll centers , soft springs and oil.
So if there was an OFFROAD setup sheet for the TC 7, this would be it.
I made no adjustments to the car [TC7] , because we are already set up for max mechanical grip.See above.
I thought i would really miss the HPI tires , and i don't , and i have a bunch for sale if anyone needs them.
We didn't soak tires or go overboard on treatment. I just rub them with something Polyisobutene based ,and run the car.
After the first day with everyone running them, no issues , good traction , very little wear.
Yes , the limit of the cars are now a little slower , but not much. Touching while passing is a little hairier.
We run on an old full scale racetrack, very rough , low traction ,half the turns have negative banking. Max ground clearance, no sway bars, high roll centers , soft springs and oil.
So if there was an OFFROAD setup sheet for the TC 7, this would be it.
I made no adjustments to the car [TC7] , because we are already set up for max mechanical grip.See above.
I thought i would really miss the HPI tires , and i don't , and i have a bunch for sale if anyone needs them.
03-29-2018, 10:56 AM
I WAS worried about the change to ProtoForm VTA tires. You must adjust your driving style and braking points.
We didn't soak tires or go overboard on treatment. I just rub them with something Polyisobutene based ,and run the car.
After the first day with everyone running them, no issues , good traction , very little wear.
Yes , the limit of the cars are now a little slower , but not much. Touching while passing is a little hairier.
We run on an old full scale racetrack, very rough , low traction ,half the turns have negative banking. Max ground clearance, no sway bars, high roll centers , soft springs and oil.
So if there was an OFFROAD setup sheet for the TC 7, this would be it.
I made no adjustments to the car [TC7] , because we are already set up for max mechanical grip.See above.
I thought i would really miss the HPI tires , and i don't , and i have a bunch for sale if anyone needs them.
We didn't soak tires or go overboard on treatment. I just rub them with something Polyisobutene based ,and run the car.
After the first day with everyone running them, no issues , good traction , very little wear.
Yes , the limit of the cars are now a little slower , but not much. Touching while passing is a little hairier.
We run on an old full scale racetrack, very rough , low traction ,half the turns have negative banking. Max ground clearance, no sway bars, high roll centers , soft springs and oil.
So if there was an OFFROAD setup sheet for the TC 7, this would be it.
I made no adjustments to the car [TC7] , because we are already set up for max mechanical grip.See above.
I thought i would really miss the HPI tires , and i don't , and i have a bunch for sale if anyone needs them.
03-29-2018, 11:12 AM
dirt sauce applied as a really early soak, 15 min before heat, wipe, paragon special FX (small pink label can), wipe before heat, tires are magic.
03-29-2018, 11:28 AM
some of our VTA drivers attended the Desert Classic offroad race at Hobby Action recently. they were able to test various buggy tire sauce concoctions used by offroad racers use to make near slick tires grip on hard pack dirt. many were private mixes and/or would not be readily available. two drivers came back with something that works impressive on Proline tires. Kinwald's Dirt Sauce.
dirt sauce applied as a really early soak, 15 min before heat, wipe, paragon special FX (small pink label can), wipe before heat, tires are magic.
dirt sauce applied as a really early soak, 15 min before heat, wipe, paragon special FX (small pink label can), wipe before heat, tires are magic.
