Studdering with 25.5
01-09-2012, 12:41 PM
#16
Tech Master
For our club level races anything that is 25.5 stamped is legal (Viper, Epic/Trinity, Speed Passion, Novak)
I have intentionally avoided Novak as I have had poor customer service from them in the past (nothing but great things from epic!).
I was going to try and swap out the board but its a locked rear bell (3 little tabs folded over) so I cannot really service it or change the physical timing.
Last night I bit the bullet and purchased a new Viper motor from A-Main and well see how that works. Pros are it is a serviceable motor and has (imho) a better sensor port mounting (similiar to Novak's) where a side hit wont make contact.
Hopefully this will fix my woes, thanks to everyone who chimed in. I plan on hooking the SP motor to my tekin RS in the next few days and checking it with the LED's to verify.
Anyone know if SP services these motors if you send it in? Time to call china...
I have intentionally avoided Novak as I have had poor customer service from them in the past (nothing but great things from epic!).
I was going to try and swap out the board but its a locked rear bell (3 little tabs folded over) so I cannot really service it or change the physical timing.
Last night I bit the bullet and purchased a new Viper motor from A-Main and well see how that works. Pros are it is a serviceable motor and has (imho) a better sensor port mounting (similiar to Novak's) where a side hit wont make contact.
Hopefully this will fix my woes, thanks to everyone who chimed in. I plan on hooking the SP motor to my tekin RS in the next few days and checking it with the LED's to verify.
Anyone know if SP services these motors if you send it in? Time to call china...
Since you guys run all types of 25.5 does any brand seem to be faster than the others? Just curious.
01-09-2012, 01:18 PM
#17
I'll double check that but last I saw everything was nice and smooth and clean.
{Shrug} it happens every now and then. As far as motor preference it seems to be split really. It seems like my SP had a little more top end than the guys who were running the novaks. Also mine was about middle of the pack temps wise (minus one guy who had fried bearings and the motor was temping 180+ after a race!). I can't recall anyone running the Viper so I'm kind of anxious to see how it works!
Don't get me wrong, I loved my SP motor, but the lack of fixing a small issue like this on my own sucks. It was nice that this was a "handout" style motor so everyone was running the same (fixed timing) but I wish they had made provisions to service it. When it worked correctly it was smooth and powerful with plenty of grunt out of the corners.
I think there was 1 guy running the Epic/trinity motor but didn't get any feedback from them, I'll try and remember to check next time.
Rumor I heard was ROAR was going to modify the rule that all 25.5 motors would be legal and that the Carpet nationals at Mike's this year would be 25.5 legal.
{Shrug} it happens every now and then. As far as motor preference it seems to be split really. It seems like my SP had a little more top end than the guys who were running the novaks. Also mine was about middle of the pack temps wise (minus one guy who had fried bearings and the motor was temping 180+ after a race!). I can't recall anyone running the Viper so I'm kind of anxious to see how it works!
Don't get me wrong, I loved my SP motor, but the lack of fixing a small issue like this on my own sucks. It was nice that this was a "handout" style motor so everyone was running the same (fixed timing) but I wish they had made provisions to service it. When it worked correctly it was smooth and powerful with plenty of grunt out of the corners.
I think there was 1 guy running the Epic/trinity motor but didn't get any feedback from them, I'll try and remember to check next time.
Rumor I heard was ROAR was going to modify the rule that all 25.5 motors would be legal and that the Carpet nationals at Mike's this year would be 25.5 legal.
Last edited by mkiiina; 01-09-2012 at 01:31 PM.
01-09-2012, 02:29 PM
#18
Tech Master
I believe you are right about roar allowing any 25.5. It will be interesting but I don't think that the roar rules will become as standard as the vta written rules. I just hope people understand that the other motors and not allowed at vta sanctioned events.
That being said, I don't think there will be any significant difference in 25.5 motors. At least not any more difference than you could find in a single production batch of the same motor. Some run differently than others but you should be able to make any motor work properly between timing and gearing. My ballistic seems to have less torque than others but it also seems to have more top end. I simply run a higher FDR than others to keep the torque out of the corners.
That being said, I don't think there will be any significant difference in 25.5 motors. At least not any more difference than you could find in a single production batch of the same motor. Some run differently than others but you should be able to make any motor work properly between timing and gearing. My ballistic seems to have less torque than others but it also seems to have more top end. I simply run a higher FDR than others to keep the torque out of the corners.
01-09-2012, 02:49 PM
#19
Agreed, I think if you did a blind "taste test" with the same car and just started swapping motors you would be hard pressed to tell the difference (especially with VTA!)
As for what is and isn't allowed {shrug}. We are pretty open it seems where i run in that as long as its close racing everyone has a gentlemen's agreement along with keeping the spirit of vta alive. This last week we had 14-16 cars in 2 heats and it was alot of fun.
As for what is and isn't allowed {shrug}. We are pretty open it seems where i run in that as long as its close racing everyone has a gentlemen's agreement along with keeping the spirit of vta alive. This last week we had 14-16 cars in 2 heats and it was alot of fun.
01-12-2012, 08:07 PM
#20
So new Viper motor is here and in the car and all is well! Still havent dropped it into my Tekin RS to check the sensor but I'm betting you guys are right that the board is toast.
Looking forward to running the car without worry! I was looking at the video of the race and I sat at the start line for over 10 seconds! check it out here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzQqz...ature=youtu.be
Looking forward to running the car without worry! I was looking at the video of the race and I sat at the start line for over 10 seconds! check it out here... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzQqz...ature=youtu.be
01-13-2012, 06:49 AM
#21
This has been covered often in the Speedpassion thread.......change the sensor board, they are quite delicate and known for this exact problem. While you are at it, try one of the new 'added timing' sensors, they are much more robust in their design and add more power, of course you'll have to regear to take advantage of the increased rpms.
IF the motor has sp adjustable end bell.....
Good Luck
IF the motor has sp adjustable end bell.....
Good Luck
I'll double check that but last I saw everything was nice and smooth and clean.
{Shrug} it happens every now and then. As far as motor preference it seems to be split really. It seems like my SP had a little more top end than the guys who were running the novaks. Also mine was about middle of the pack temps wise (minus one guy who had fried bearings and the motor was temping 180+ after a race!). I can't recall anyone running the Viper so I'm kind of anxious to see how it works!
Don't get me wrong, I loved my SP motor, but the lack of fixing a small issue like this on my own sucks. It was nice that this was a "handout" style motor so everyone was running the same (fixed timing) but I wish they had made provisions to service it. When it worked correctly it was smooth and powerful with plenty of grunt out of the corners.
I think there was 1 guy running the Epic/trinity motor but didn't get any feedback from them, I'll try and remember to check next time.
Rumor I heard was ROAR was going to modify the rule that all 25.5 motors would be legal and that the Carpet nationals at Mike's this year would be 25.5 legal.
{Shrug} it happens every now and then. As far as motor preference it seems to be split really. It seems like my SP had a little more top end than the guys who were running the novaks. Also mine was about middle of the pack temps wise (minus one guy who had fried bearings and the motor was temping 180+ after a race!). I can't recall anyone running the Viper so I'm kind of anxious to see how it works!
Don't get me wrong, I loved my SP motor, but the lack of fixing a small issue like this on my own sucks. It was nice that this was a "handout" style motor so everyone was running the same (fixed timing) but I wish they had made provisions to service it. When it worked correctly it was smooth and powerful with plenty of grunt out of the corners.
I think there was 1 guy running the Epic/trinity motor but didn't get any feedback from them, I'll try and remember to check next time.
Rumor I heard was ROAR was going to modify the rule that all 25.5 motors would be legal and that the Carpet nationals at Mike's this year would be 25.5 legal.
I believe you are right about roar allowing any 25.5. It will be interesting but I don't think that the roar rules will become as standard as the vta written rules. I just hope people understand that the other motors and not allowed at vta sanctioned events.
That being said, I don't think there will be any significant difference in 25.5 motors. At least not any more difference than you could find in a single production batch of the same motor. Some run differently than others but you should be able to make any motor work properly between timing and gearing. My ballistic seems to have less torque than others but it also seems to have more top end. I simply run a higher FDR than others to keep the torque out of the corners.
That being said, I don't think there will be any significant difference in 25.5 motors. At least not any more difference than you could find in a single production batch of the same motor. Some run differently than others but you should be able to make any motor work properly between timing and gearing. My ballistic seems to have less torque than others but it also seems to have more top end. I simply run a higher FDR than others to keep the torque out of the corners.
1 motor at least eliminates any and all doubt,
plus if you are running the Ballastic, its never a waste of money,
and if all else, most guys run VTA to keep it FUN FAIR CHEAP, if I even "THINK" your SP or VIPER is faster, Im dropping the $$$ to get one...how fair is that?...or cheap?...and after buying 2-4 motors to keep up, how fun is it?
Im happy with the National rules set by the USVTA...but real brand loyalty is to the class, not the company, and the true VTA class is under the USVTA.
I love Novak stuff, but I love the class more...if we all had to run Viper motors at the beginning, I would have done it just as well as the Novak, but it all about keeping the class FUN FAIR and CHEAP...and motor,esc,and tire wars have no place in this class...
sorry to go in another direction, but if you was running a Novak(USVTA) you wouldnt have to wait on China...
01-13-2012, 08:01 AM
#22
The only thing I'd like to add is, I bought this car as a BND car to try out VTA and the only reason I picked the Viper this time around was it was something different.
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
01-13-2012, 09:11 AM
#23
The only thing I'd like to add is, I bought this car as a BND car to try out VTA and the only reason I picked the Viper this time around was it was something different.
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
01-13-2012, 09:24 AM
#24
Viper R/C VST25.5 Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $79.99
Team EPIC D3 "Monster Horsepower" Brushless Crawler Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $84.99
Speed Passion Competition MMM Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5R)
Low Price: $84.99
Novak Ballistic Spec "VTA" Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $89.99
really?....between the 2 motors you have already over $150 in them, and if they go bad, you will have to buy another...
now if you had the Novak...and you burt it up, you could spend $35 for a new stator, or the sensor board went bad, you would need to spend $20 to replace it...
but it is a few dollars more...but in the long run...not even close..and you needing to buy another motor is proof of that...
also...with the Novak, if you decide to leave VTA for a faster class?...its a stator change and you are racing...not another $80-$90 motor
Low Price: $79.99
Team EPIC D3 "Monster Horsepower" Brushless Crawler Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $84.99
Speed Passion Competition MMM Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5R)
Low Price: $84.99
Novak Ballistic Spec "VTA" Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $89.99
really?....between the 2 motors you have already over $150 in them, and if they go bad, you will have to buy another...
now if you had the Novak...and you burt it up, you could spend $35 for a new stator, or the sensor board went bad, you would need to spend $20 to replace it...
but it is a few dollars more...but in the long run...not even close..and you needing to buy another motor is proof of that...
also...with the Novak, if you decide to leave VTA for a faster class?...its a stator change and you are racing...not another $80-$90 motor
01-13-2012, 09:35 AM
#25
The only thing I'd like to add is, I bought this car as a BND car to try out VTA and the only reason I picked the Viper this time around was it was something different.
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
Brand loyalty is one thing but choice is another and the Viper is actually CHEAPER than the Novak motor (at least on A-Main).
ROAR should not be dictating every detail on classes. Would you really like to have 1 options for chassis, body, servo, radio, motor, esc, battery?
and in my world..ROAR is what it is...and USVTA is VTA
01-13-2012, 11:37 AM
#26
I think you missed something in the beginning. I was running a Speed Passion motor (with closed end bell). The Viper motor I picked out specifically to be able to service it if the need arose.
Here's what my $180 got me for my entry into VTA (remember, I bought this car as BND, I did not hand pick the parts, the previous owner did):
1. Xray T1 in good running order
2. Speed passion combo esc and motor
3. hitec steering servo (can't remember the exact model but it has a 0.09 trans time iirc)
4. Full set of like new VTA wheels and tires.
Dropped in my RX, personal transponder and was racing. I ended up buying a body (Mopar guy) and a spring kit to tune with. This thread was about trouble shooting a problem (which it appear we did at this point) and found that the motor was the culprit. I don't think I bashed any brand and simply stated my personal views on why I made the motor decision I did.
Next, if you look through A-Main's site you will see they sell replacement stators, sensor boards, etc etc for Viper motors, just like Novak. Also if you just google "Speed Passion 25.5" you will see it is available for as little as $50, a little over 1/2 the cost of of the other motors.
Bottomline: I bought a new motor to see if mine was the problem. It appears it was and a new motor fixed it (regardless of brand).
Here's what my $180 got me for my entry into VTA (remember, I bought this car as BND, I did not hand pick the parts, the previous owner did):
1. Xray T1 in good running order
2. Speed passion combo esc and motor
3. hitec steering servo (can't remember the exact model but it has a 0.09 trans time iirc)
4. Full set of like new VTA wheels and tires.
Dropped in my RX, personal transponder and was racing. I ended up buying a body (Mopar guy) and a spring kit to tune with. This thread was about trouble shooting a problem (which it appear we did at this point) and found that the motor was the culprit. I don't think I bashed any brand and simply stated my personal views on why I made the motor decision I did.
Next, if you look through A-Main's site you will see they sell replacement stators, sensor boards, etc etc for Viper motors, just like Novak. Also if you just google "Speed Passion 25.5" you will see it is available for as little as $50, a little over 1/2 the cost of of the other motors.
Bottomline: I bought a new motor to see if mine was the problem. It appears it was and a new motor fixed it (regardless of brand).
Viper R/C VST25.5 Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $79.99
Team EPIC D3 "Monster Horsepower" Brushless Crawler Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $84.99
Speed Passion Competition MMM Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5R)
Low Price: $84.99
Novak Ballistic Spec "VTA" Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $89.99
really?....between the 2 motors you have already over $150 in them, and if they go bad, you will have to buy another...
now if you had the Novak...and you burt it up, you could spend $35 for a new stator, or the sensor board went bad, you would need to spend $20 to replace it...
but it is a few dollars more...but in the long run...not even close..and you needing to buy another motor is proof of that...
also...with the Novak, if you decide to leave VTA for a faster class?...its a stator change and you are racing...not another $80-$90 motor
Low Price: $79.99
Team EPIC D3 "Monster Horsepower" Brushless Crawler Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $84.99
Speed Passion Competition MMM Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5R)
Low Price: $84.99
Novak Ballistic Spec "VTA" Sensored Brushless Motor (25.5T)
Low Price: $89.99
really?....between the 2 motors you have already over $150 in them, and if they go bad, you will have to buy another...
now if you had the Novak...and you burt it up, you could spend $35 for a new stator, or the sensor board went bad, you would need to spend $20 to replace it...
but it is a few dollars more...but in the long run...not even close..and you needing to buy another motor is proof of that...
also...with the Novak, if you decide to leave VTA for a faster class?...its a stator change and you are racing...not another $80-$90 motor
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