Thoughts on the 2004 Worlds and Media Exclusivity
10-31-2004, 06:27 AM
#31
Tech Rookie
I don't even know where to start with this one. 
RC Driver, IFMAR and the track operators are responsible for this total failure of judgment. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else was approached by IFMAR to purchase the exclusive rights to cover the event. I doubt it. My guess is that RC Driver came up with this plan and paid IFMAR. If they want to be the "official magazine" of the race and pay as a sponsor, hang their banners and be the only ones to hand out or promote their magazine in some way, that's fine. But to make a deal to keep the results from everyone?! WTF is that?!
For IFMAR and the track operator's part in this, they're absolute idiots on almost every point of this sad scenario. You DON'T allow deals to be made to withhold results from your race. Even if you think this is workable, you might want to let everyone else know this is happening so they don't waste their time flying in from around the world to cover the event. Shane and surely a lot of other web operators and magazines went to a lot of expense to cover this, and to pull this crap is absolutely inexcusable. It appears that it was a late decision which apparently means that nobody knew of this until they arrived at the race. I will bet that IFMAR will vaporize VERY quickly if this ever happens again. Nobody will tolerate the whoring of information in this manner. I find it so offensive and unacceptable that I will go out of my way to NEVER support anyone who has a hand in this ever again.
For RC Driver to participate in this ill-conceived plan to withhold information from us has cost them my business. The irony is their website is almost the ONLY one that doesn't have any information posted about the race results yet. RC Tech, Car Action, Starting Grid, Tamiya, Orion and a lot of other sites already have the results posted - RC Driver? Nothing. If they need to have IFMAR and the track operators to keep the results from everyone else, it doesn't say much for their confidence in their ability to do a better job. This combined with the knowledge that they're owned in some way by the owner of HPI (it doesn't matter how passionately they say they're not) means they have to be doing it better and cleaner than the next guy. They're not. Thanks for saving me a few bucks a month.
RC Driver, IFMAR and the track operators are responsible for this total failure of judgment. I'd be interested in knowing if anyone else was approached by IFMAR to purchase the exclusive rights to cover the event. I doubt it. My guess is that RC Driver came up with this plan and paid IFMAR. If they want to be the "official magazine" of the race and pay as a sponsor, hang their banners and be the only ones to hand out or promote their magazine in some way, that's fine. But to make a deal to keep the results from everyone?! WTF is that?!
For IFMAR and the track operator's part in this, they're absolute idiots on almost every point of this sad scenario. You DON'T allow deals to be made to withhold results from your race. Even if you think this is workable, you might want to let everyone else know this is happening so they don't waste their time flying in from around the world to cover the event. Shane and surely a lot of other web operators and magazines went to a lot of expense to cover this, and to pull this crap is absolutely inexcusable. It appears that it was a late decision which apparently means that nobody knew of this until they arrived at the race. I will bet that IFMAR will vaporize VERY quickly if this ever happens again. Nobody will tolerate the whoring of information in this manner. I find it so offensive and unacceptable that I will go out of my way to NEVER support anyone who has a hand in this ever again.
For RC Driver to participate in this ill-conceived plan to withhold information from us has cost them my business. The irony is their website is almost the ONLY one that doesn't have any information posted about the race results yet. RC Tech, Car Action, Starting Grid, Tamiya, Orion and a lot of other sites already have the results posted - RC Driver? Nothing. If they need to have IFMAR and the track operators to keep the results from everyone else, it doesn't say much for their confidence in their ability to do a better job. This combined with the knowledge that they're owned in some way by the owner of HPI (it doesn't matter how passionately they say they're not) means they have to be doing it better and cleaner than the next guy. They're not. Thanks for saving me a few bucks a month.
Last edited by Pozer; 10-31-2004 at 11:40 AM.
10-31-2004, 06:29 AM
#32
I would blame IFMAR on this one as they controll the event, much like ROAR does on a national level, and I would say IFMAR failed all of us by allowing a exclusive on the event and allowing the rest of us to be locked out of the event.
We have done live updates from Winternats that were real time during the mains and from sweden, both trackside and both getting the html's from the scoreing software.. the software they used would allow immediate correction and had a html output option not sure why it was not used.
I have also watched many races on this site and have been very pleased getting immediate results.
At this point in the industry the more coverage the better the more growth.
Make sure you let IFMAR know how ripped off we feel as we are part of IFMAR as a ROAR member and we should also let Rick from ROAR know how wrong this was and that our vote( the ROAR vote) should refelect and voice this issue.
We have done live updates from Winternats that were real time during the mains and from sweden, both trackside and both getting the html's from the scoreing software.. the software they used would allow immediate correction and had a html output option not sure why it was not used.
I have also watched many races on this site and have been very pleased getting immediate results.
At this point in the industry the more coverage the better the more growth.
Make sure you let IFMAR know how ripped off we feel as we are part of IFMAR as a ROAR member and we should also let Rick from ROAR know how wrong this was and that our vote( the ROAR vote) should refelect and voice this issue.
10-31-2004, 06:33 AM
#33
Tech Rookie
Everyone involved is responsible. period.
I'm emailing my previous post to IFMAR and ROAR.
I'm emailing my previous post to IFMAR and ROAR.
10-31-2004, 06:34 AM
#34
C'mon guys...give RC Driver a break...after all..they DO have 2 NASCAR articles and a drag racing article on the front page of their site!!
I'm sure that RCDriver entered into this hoping for both growth AND profit by having the best coverage of the event(by securing exclusive access). I'm sure that the backlash from enthusiasts was not something they had anticipated or they would have re-thought the arrangement.
I'm sure that RCDriver entered into this hoping for both growth AND profit by having the best coverage of the event(by securing exclusive access). I'm sure that the backlash from enthusiasts was not something they had anticipated or they would have re-thought the arrangement.
10-31-2004, 06:35 AM
#35
Tech Addict
"One step ahead, three step back, this is the policy of the government" --> that's what I was singing along with my fellow students a few years ago to protest against the latest government budget for universities.
I guess this could apply to what happenned : one step ahead with FTS and IFMAR using RC Tech to relay their anouncements, three steps back for the exclusivity to RC Driver...
I guess this could apply to what happenned : one step ahead with FTS and IFMAR using RC Tech to relay their anouncements, three steps back for the exclusivity to RC Driver...
10-31-2004, 06:39 AM
#37
This combined with the knowledge that they're owned in some way by the owner of HPI (it doesn't matter how passionately they say they're not) means they have to be doing it better and cleaner than the next guy.
I wonder when Gary's going to find this thread
It would be interesting to find out who brokered the deal for exclusivity. Who proposed the idea, and which parties signed the agreement.
There is the possibility that either FTS or IFMAR were ignorant of the deal being struck.
10-31-2004, 07:02 AM
#38
It is interesting to see a trend here lately. I am a huge fan of the "Pro" scene in Rc. Enjoy following the new stuff and how the Pro's are doing. I have met and got to know some of them and part of my enjoyment in this hobby is the fact that Ican be a fan and a participant.
The trend that I have seen while following this event and from attending some of the National events here in the states....the Sanctioning bodies are struggling with their leadership in the hobby. We read pages and pages of the Body mess leading up to the Worlds. ROAR dropped the ball, Ifmar dropped the ball, there were fumbles all over the place. People were getting poor information and were upset leading into the biggest on road race of the year. This was not some parking lot race it was the Worlds and rules and info was being changed right up to the last days.
Then after all the mess leading up to the event...I thought that once the racing started all would be forgotten....WRONG. The main theme coming from the Worlds is frustration and anger. Not at what was going on the track but off it. How sad!!!
How does a race like Snowbirds run with 800+ entries and not this level of frustration....I will venture a guess...GREAT PLANNING AND LEADERSHIP! The trend also points to the large non-santioned race gaining steam. Here in the USA the Novak, Snowbirds and Cleveland are some of the biggest and best on road races every year....and look they are not santioned....who was more important winner this year the ROAR national champ or the Snowbird champ?????
I say get the leadership of the promoters of events like the ones I talked and look to them not ROAR and IFMAR. They are the ones that truely are promoting this hobby!
And yes I am a ROAR member and yes I voted.
Jeff
The trend that I have seen while following this event and from attending some of the National events here in the states....the Sanctioning bodies are struggling with their leadership in the hobby. We read pages and pages of the Body mess leading up to the Worlds. ROAR dropped the ball, Ifmar dropped the ball, there were fumbles all over the place. People were getting poor information and were upset leading into the biggest on road race of the year. This was not some parking lot race it was the Worlds and rules and info was being changed right up to the last days.
Then after all the mess leading up to the event...I thought that once the racing started all would be forgotten....WRONG. The main theme coming from the Worlds is frustration and anger. Not at what was going on the track but off it. How sad!!!
How does a race like Snowbirds run with 800+ entries and not this level of frustration....I will venture a guess...GREAT PLANNING AND LEADERSHIP! The trend also points to the large non-santioned race gaining steam. Here in the USA the Novak, Snowbirds and Cleveland are some of the biggest and best on road races every year....and look they are not santioned....who was more important winner this year the ROAR national champ or the Snowbird champ?????
I say get the leadership of the promoters of events like the ones I talked and look to them not ROAR and IFMAR. They are the ones that truely are promoting this hobby!
And yes I am a ROAR member and yes I voted.
Jeff
10-31-2004, 07:03 AM
#39
Tech Adept
Having the exclusive coverage of an event is a big responsibility. First obviously let the other magazines know they wont be allowed. Second, provide coverage that can get the information out in a timely manner. I thought the results were slow coming from the worlds because of limited internet access. But to find out a deal was made that is not in the best interest of anyone but rcdriver and fts. That is wrong. I was looking at their website this morning and cannot find a word on the worlds. The biggest single event of the year in rc racing and I can read about nascar and import drag racing on their homepage but cannot read about the event that the have the exclusive to. What is happening to our hobby? What stands to be gained from this than someone getting a fat wallet?
10-31-2004, 07:12 AM
#40
Tech Rookie
Originally posted by Windsorguy99
I really don't see what the point of this statement is in your argument though. There is the possibility that either FTS or IFMAR were ignorant of the deal being struck.
I really don't see what the point of this statement is in your argument though. There is the possibility that either FTS or IFMAR were ignorant of the deal being struck.
While it's not directly related to this issue, the point is that it calls credibility into question. It's not a personal comment about the people that work there, but I have to question their voracity for HPI related material in the mag and their conclusions. I would say the same if Ford had a financial stake in Road & Track. Now it appears they're buying off tracks or IFMAR to block out RC Tech and other people from covering the event. Not sure what the motive is, but it's certainly not in the best interest of the hobby.
On the second point, I don't know how they couldn't know of this deal. Either IFMAR of the track HAD to be a willing participant. They couldn't pull it off without their cooperation.
10-31-2004, 07:17 AM
#41
One or the other had to know....but did both? Both are being blamed.
What would HPI have togain from placing an embargo on this information? 2 in the top 3 is huge positive press for them, it would be in their best interst for this to be broadcast everywhere possible?
I understand your skepticism with the ownership situation at RCD, but it really doesn't seem to have much bearing on the issue here?
What would HPI have togain from placing an embargo on this information? 2 in the top 3 is huge positive press for them, it would be in their best interst for this to be broadcast everywhere possible?
I understand your skepticism with the ownership situation at RCD, but it really doesn't seem to have much bearing on the issue here?
10-31-2004, 07:22 AM
#42
Tech Rookie
No connection other than there was already one reason to make me go, "hmmmmmm." Now there's another.
Even if one of the two didn't know about it at the start of the race, I can bet a big chunk of money they knew about it milliseconds after the first person was told the couldn't have the results because someone bought them off. Someone should have had the sense to say SCREW THIS and just give out the information. They all had the opportunity to see it was a bad idea, but they apparently did nothing about it.
Even if one of the two didn't know about it at the start of the race, I can bet a big chunk of money they knew about it milliseconds after the first person was told the couldn't have the results because someone bought them off. Someone should have had the sense to say SCREW THIS and just give out the information. They all had the opportunity to see it was a bad idea, but they apparently did nothing about it.
10-31-2004, 07:24 AM
#43
If the third party cancelled the agreement, then there would be the risk of legal action , etc...
I'm not saying that anyone was in the right here....all I'm saying is that it's dangerous to haphazardly point fingers until itis known exactly what occurred and who was party to the arrangements.
I'm not saying that anyone was in the right here....all I'm saying is that it's dangerous to haphazardly point fingers until itis known exactly what occurred and who was party to the arrangements.
10-31-2004, 07:32 AM
#44
Tech Rookie
Legal shmegal. It would serve them right if all the other magazines and websites sued to recover their expenses. They didn't even tell anyone. I'm totally with Shane on this one. I don't disagree with you and I may be jumping to conclusions, but like the "weapons of mass destruction" argument and the BS CYA stuff that goes along with it, we may never have a clear understanding of exactly who masterminded this mess.
A long, steamy fart on a hardwood church pew comes to mind.
A long, steamy fart on a hardwood church pew comes to mind.
Last edited by Pozer; 10-31-2004 at 07:37 AM.
10-31-2004, 07:53 AM
#45
this is still the United States of America right. this is a free country and it is all of our rights as Americans to have free speech and free press. I am with EA on this one they can keep there mag. I have a couple of questions
Was the track or Ifmar put up lap times for drivers to see?
If so Shane what was stopping your crew from snapping pictures and posting them?
I think what Ifmar and Full throttle have dones is just plain f^^*ed up.
Oh yah If Ifmar made threats or anything about you posting results it is time to let the dogs out (lawyers).
Kind of the same thing happened with Nascar and ESPN. Nascar told ESPN that they weren't allowed to broadcast from or use video of there races. So espn set up shop outside the track and used still photo's.
Was the track or Ifmar put up lap times for drivers to see?
If so Shane what was stopping your crew from snapping pictures and posting them?
I think what Ifmar and Full throttle have dones is just plain f^^*ed up.
Oh yah If Ifmar made threats or anything about you posting results it is time to let the dogs out (lawyers).
Kind of the same thing happened with Nascar and ESPN. Nascar told ESPN that they weren't allowed to broadcast from or use video of there races. So espn set up shop outside the track and used still photo's.