Boost is Dead
04-20-2011, 02:05 AM
#17
Boosted 13.5 is for where we race, inside a fully carpeted 10x15m hall.
Any more motor (combined with boost) will see us go through the doors
"Stock" has its place.
Because sometimes too much motor is just a waste.
Local club racing needs stability, not frequent rule changes.
We discussed 17.5 but we are a small club, so expecting everyone to buy a new motor isn't good for us.
The pro's know how to setup an ESC, the slower guys are working their way up.
We also proved the hobbywing ESC can be just as quick as the Tekin with the right setup, so it looks like we know cheap can still be dialled....
Any more motor (combined with boost) will see us go through the doors
"Stock" has its place.
Because sometimes too much motor is just a waste.
Local club racing needs stability, not frequent rule changes.
We discussed 17.5 but we are a small club, so expecting everyone to buy a new motor isn't good for us.
The pro's know how to setup an ESC, the slower guys are working their way up.
We also proved the hobbywing ESC can be just as quick as the Tekin with the right setup, so it looks like we know cheap can still be dialled....
04-20-2011, 03:39 AM
#18
Anyone that thought boosted was bad is fooling themselves. Sure blame Tekin or Black Diamond, but I'm highly competitive on my 3 year old RS and equally 3 year old Duo 1 that has never been over heated......
enter non-boosted, motor temps sore, battery c rating is more important in stock since your pulling massive gear and timing right out of the turn rather than gradually applying it. Locked motor timing, yeah that worked well ask the guys from the first brushless snowbirds how many motors were advanced past the 'physical' limit.
And why the hell mess with 13.5 ??? Blinky was being toted as 'making stock easier to drive' If you think you good enough to run 13.5 then I doubt programing an ESC is beyond your means, or do you still run 12th tires at the diameter they are from the package or still have the box stock set-up on your touring car, remember racing is all about equality and everyone gets a participation ribbon
It is just another example of the can nots needing an excuse, I got beat by better drivers than I, not by more horsepower, now if I run blinky I'll be beat by deeper pockets.
enter non-boosted, motor temps sore, battery c rating is more important in stock since your pulling massive gear and timing right out of the turn rather than gradually applying it. Locked motor timing, yeah that worked well ask the guys from the first brushless snowbirds how many motors were advanced past the 'physical' limit.
And why the hell mess with 13.5 ??? Blinky was being toted as 'making stock easier to drive' If you think you good enough to run 13.5 then I doubt programing an ESC is beyond your means, or do you still run 12th tires at the diameter they are from the package or still have the box stock set-up on your touring car, remember racing is all about equality and everyone gets a participation ribbon
It is just another example of the can nots needing an excuse, I got beat by better drivers than I, not by more horsepower, now if I run blinky I'll be beat by deeper pockets.
04-20-2011, 03:44 AM
#19
Open ESC 17.5TC is the most popular on road class in my area. I think it is far from dead.
No matter how you get it, 17.5 TC open ESC is the right speed for the bulk of the TC racers. Any lower turn and you're flirting with MOD, take the timing away and it's too slow.
No matter how you get it, 17.5 TC open ESC is the right speed for the bulk of the TC racers. Any lower turn and you're flirting with MOD, take the timing away and it's too slow.
04-20-2011, 04:12 AM
#20
Boost has been the great equalizer on equipment. First rolling timing was the spx... Then the game came on.. Now pretty much everyone has it figured out and we have had the closest racing and qualifying that we have seen in 5 or 10 years and the equipment is mixed from all vendors... Atleast now we can tune the motor in..... Not just buy 10 more to find the sweet one.
04-20-2011, 05:10 AM
#24
Remember the days of handout motors and futaba speedo's? Ah yes, those were the days.
04-20-2011, 05:22 AM
#25
Tech Master
iTrader: (41)
Nearly a year and a half ago, I proposed the idea of spec ESC profiles. This was during the time after IIC'09 where the Black Diamond debuted, and before Tekin 203 when we suspected the game was about to change. I took a thorough beating in that thread, but I'm barely bitter at all.
Anyway, I predict Reedy will be the last big on-road race to include boosted classes. So, what happens now? Here's some things to ponder:
1. How will the ESC manufacturers differentiate themselves now? Smoothness? Customer service? I'm glad they'll have to find something other than timing to focus on.
2. Who were the winners during the boost era? Who were the losers?
3. Will the "problem" shift to getting the best batteries and motors?
4. Will there be any use for boosted profiles anymore?
5. Do you feel bad for companies that are just now getting their ESC's competitive with Tekin? All that time spent on programming and R&D, just a bit too late.
6. Will companies like KO re-emerge with their ESC's now that the technology has stabilized?
I don't have answers, just opinions. Let's hear yours.
Anyway, I predict Reedy will be the last big on-road race to include boosted classes. So, what happens now? Here's some things to ponder:
1. How will the ESC manufacturers differentiate themselves now? Smoothness? Customer service? I'm glad they'll have to find something other than timing to focus on.
2. Who were the winners during the boost era? Who were the losers?
3. Will the "problem" shift to getting the best batteries and motors?
4. Will there be any use for boosted profiles anymore?
5. Do you feel bad for companies that are just now getting their ESC's competitive with Tekin? All that time spent on programming and R&D, just a bit too late.
6. Will companies like KO re-emerge with their ESC's now that the technology has stabilized?
I don't have answers, just opinions. Let's hear yours.
Your not the only one to fight this fight and take a beating. Hang in there.
04-20-2011, 05:28 AM
#26
4. Will there be any use for boosted profiles anymore?
There is an interesting dynamic between the established mod racers using low turn motors versus the newcomers running a couple more turns with a boatload of boost. Should make for a good show at the Nationals.
04-20-2011, 05:52 AM
#27
I, for one, can't wait to go back to needing a dyno, going through 10 or so motors to find THE fastest one, seeking out the highest voltage batteries and almost all the other things that made stock a big pain in the 1990's.
I like this idea, LOCKED motors, NO TUNING ROTORS, and leave the speedo open. Let us have something to tune in the speedo, to make up for the differences inherent in any mass produced line of motors.
Or maybe we should all just have to run the same speedo, motor, batteries, charger, body, chassis, tires, radio, traction compound, suspension set-up, spec it all. Then you could just throw your stuff in the trunk at the end of the day, pull it out on raceday, and we'd all be equal right?
I like this idea, LOCKED motors, NO TUNING ROTORS, and leave the speedo open. Let us have something to tune in the speedo, to make up for the differences inherent in any mass produced line of motors.
Or maybe we should all just have to run the same speedo, motor, batteries, charger, body, chassis, tires, radio, traction compound, suspension set-up, spec it all. Then you could just throw your stuff in the trunk at the end of the day, pull it out on raceday, and we'd all be equal right?
04-20-2011, 05:54 AM
#28
Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.
Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
04-20-2011, 06:02 AM
#29
I think thats a good thing. Make the trophy hunters run the class their skill level actually deserves.
Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.
Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.
Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
and for what it's worth offroad classes I've seen throught out Indiana:
2wd stock, 2wd mod, 4wd mod, SC stock slash spec, SC Mod, SC 4wd, not to mention the debate over wheather stock SC should run boosted or blinky
Only 1 less than the base 3 12th classes 3 TC classes and World GT
04-20-2011, 06:17 AM
#30
Tech Champion
iTrader: (32)
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: In a land of mini-mighty mental giants
Posts: 8,854
Trader Rating: 32 (100%+)
I think thats a good thing. Make the trophy hunters run the class their skill level actually deserves.
Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.
Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
Off road doesn't have 3 million classes. Gas racing doesn't either. Everyone runs engines to the same capacity, some suit open tracks, some suit tight tracks. But its one class sorted by experience/skill, and to move up you don't have to spend money.
Electric needs this. Make Stock slow enough to get newer people at the events, but Mod should be where the show is.
The core problem with on-road is that not all the tracks are equal. Some tracks you can race 17.5 boosted or boosted in general with out issue...then on others 17.5 non boost is just as fast as mod due to size. And as a result some people want Boost dead...others are just happy with it in their area and we are fragmented and nothing will please everyone. Until ROAR sets up rules for onroad based on Track size then there will always be this debate. You cant make rules that are perfect on 60-90ft track then expect a 100+ft track make due with the same rules.
I do agree that there needs to be a slower class to get new people into it but it also needs to be something they think is cool to do. Right now Sedan and 12th scale dont work people are not beating down doors to race these classes. Onroad needs something like Slash that apeals to a wide range of people.