4LikesReflex Suspension Dynamics (RSD) TC6 Upgrades (vertical ball studs, pistons,etc)
08-04-2011, 05:59 AM
#226
Thanks Dale, those are some good examples. I remember before the TC6 was released that Christer Andersson was running 5mm under his outer ball, there I think he shimmed the wheels out to make it fit.
The 2 new setups Rick Hohwart posted in the TC6 thread also call for 3mm spacers.
I am no expert on setup as my closest track is 2 hours away so getting any meaningful testing done is hard, but my thinking was as follows:
When I switched from the TC5 to the TC6 I couldn't believe how much more consistent the car was, with much more corner speed. I looked at the differences and thought it might be because of the longer camber links (it is probably also due to more inboard weight). I wanted some more steering so I started to raise the rear roll centre by adding shims to the outboard rear camber link until I could not add any more (3mm).
Now if I want to raise it any more I can change the lower blocks or I can move the inner link to the holes marked #1-6, but I liked the thought of a longer link. I also remember, I think it might have been Chris Grainger, multiple British Champion stating that there was an optimum for the wishbone hinge pin height of around 5mm above chassis level and so I did not want to change the blocks and move that. Hence why when I saw your vertical mounts I jumped at the opportunity to buy some, to use a long link with some adjustability (hoping for more angle, as an option).
I actually realise while writing down my thought process that it is probably completely silly, since I could get long links by going to the outside hole on the outside, but something about that first drive with the TC6 made me favour the number 7 hole.
Maybe you can explain how you run your camber links and lower mounts and how you came to that decision. I think it is a very important setting, maybe the most important for balance, but still struggle to understand how to optimise it.
Regards
Neal
The 2 new setups Rick Hohwart posted in the TC6 thread also call for 3mm spacers.
I am no expert on setup as my closest track is 2 hours away so getting any meaningful testing done is hard, but my thinking was as follows:
When I switched from the TC5 to the TC6 I couldn't believe how much more consistent the car was, with much more corner speed. I looked at the differences and thought it might be because of the longer camber links (it is probably also due to more inboard weight). I wanted some more steering so I started to raise the rear roll centre by adding shims to the outboard rear camber link until I could not add any more (3mm).
Now if I want to raise it any more I can change the lower blocks or I can move the inner link to the holes marked #1-6, but I liked the thought of a longer link. I also remember, I think it might have been Chris Grainger, multiple British Champion stating that there was an optimum for the wishbone hinge pin height of around 5mm above chassis level and so I did not want to change the blocks and move that. Hence why when I saw your vertical mounts I jumped at the opportunity to buy some, to use a long link with some adjustability (hoping for more angle, as an option).
I actually realise while writing down my thought process that it is probably completely silly, since I could get long links by going to the outside hole on the outside, but something about that first drive with the TC6 made me favour the number 7 hole.
Maybe you can explain how you run your camber links and lower mounts and how you came to that decision. I think it is a very important setting, maybe the most important for balance, but still struggle to understand how to optimise it.
Regards
Neal
08-04-2011, 06:48 AM
#227
What benefits do you see from running such an angled link? I have never liked them so angled, but I don't race on Euro tracks. It seems a lot of European drivers like these angles. I would like to just hear some feedback on it, so I can learn more. Others are welcome to chime in.
The battery after I changed back to camber link position 3 in front with black outer ball + 1mm and to position 8 (so I call it) in the rear with black outer ball + 3mm. Position 8 is where the forward screw of the bearing cap is (with this angle in the rear the back of the car is very good). And it was much faster and behaved more predictable than it did for me with your Tower Mounts. The rest of the setup is very much like Keven Herberts Timezone setup.
So for me the "Teamdriver-Angles" don't seem to work. Today I tried position 5 for the front and it felt better than 3, but was a little more difficult to drive. I also tried position 8 for the front, but in comparison 5 gave more steering. I also saw other german drivers using the short links in front (even with Oneway
).This is my experience with the camberlink theme. And even though the Vertical Ball Stud Tower Mounts didn't work for me they sold at a high price just minutes after I put them in the internet
EDIT wants to know when the sway bar collars, DC's and 12.5 lbs springs arrive.
08-04-2011, 07:40 AM
#229
I used the reflex springs on my tc6 in 17.5 at the nats qualified 8th finished 10th.I had a better run in the last qual but had issues on track that was out of my hands and fast runs in the mains but was taken out,oh well i know what i had the car was dialed cant wait to hit the track again great job reflex racing.
weavernator out
weavernator out
08-04-2011, 11:55 AM
#230
Those two set-ups are again- European.
We still run spacing on the outer hub, I personally run 3mm outside, 2mm inside, to keep it almost flat. I could run 1mm outside 0mm inside, but it actually makes the car have less traction.
We use the outside to "tune" our camber gain and the inside to increase or decrease our roll stiffness.
As for roll centers, I remember John Stranahan measured them on the TC5. He found the 1B was about ground level. This would be the roll center that theoretically generates the most grip. The 0B would have a slightly lower one. If I was in low grip, I would try the 1B Roll Center and adjust my springs accordingly. You would be able to get away with soft springs that would handle the bumps, give you better forward bite on the lower grip conditions and it would allow you to run more optimum camber link angles.
Kevin, suck that you didn't like the stud mounts, once you unlock the potential of them, it really is a new world. There is a reason why the Top cars out them have them (not saying the TC6 is not without them though- let's make it clear), it just makes the car more adjustable. But everyone is different, so you have to do what you have to do.
The springs are still about 4-6 weeks out. The swaybar collars hopefully the same or less.
Warren, good job and thanks for the words!
We still run spacing on the outer hub, I personally run 3mm outside, 2mm inside, to keep it almost flat. I could run 1mm outside 0mm inside, but it actually makes the car have less traction.
We use the outside to "tune" our camber gain and the inside to increase or decrease our roll stiffness.
As for roll centers, I remember John Stranahan measured them on the TC5. He found the 1B was about ground level. This would be the roll center that theoretically generates the most grip. The 0B would have a slightly lower one. If I was in low grip, I would try the 1B Roll Center and adjust my springs accordingly. You would be able to get away with soft springs that would handle the bumps, give you better forward bite on the lower grip conditions and it would allow you to run more optimum camber link angles.
Kevin, suck that you didn't like the stud mounts, once you unlock the potential of them, it really is a new world. There is a reason why the Top cars out them have them (not saying the TC6 is not without them though- let's make it clear), it just makes the car more adjustable. But everyone is different, so you have to do what you have to do.
The springs are still about 4-6 weeks out. The swaybar collars hopefully the same or less.
Warren, good job and thanks for the words!
08-08-2011, 05:11 AM
#231
Those two set-ups are again- European.
We still run spacing on the outer hub, I personally run 3mm outside, 2mm inside, to keep it almost flat. I could run 1mm outside 0mm inside, but it actually makes the car have less traction.
We use the outside to "tune" our camber gain and the inside to increase or decrease our roll stiffness.
As for roll centers, I remember John Stranahan measured them on the TC5. He found the 1B was about ground level. This would be the roll center that theoretically generates the most grip. The 0B would have a slightly lower one. If I was in low grip, I would try the 1B Roll Center and adjust my springs accordingly. You would be able to get away with soft springs that would handle the bumps, give you better forward bite on the lower grip conditions and it would allow you to run more optimum camber link angles.
Kevin, suck that you didn't like the stud mounts, once you unlock the potential of them, it really is a new world. There is a reason why the Top cars out them have them (not saying the TC6 is not without them though- let's make it clear), it just makes the car more adjustable. But everyone is different, so you have to do what you have to do.
The springs are still about 4-6 weeks out. The swaybar collars hopefully the same or less.
Warren, good job and thanks for the words!
We still run spacing on the outer hub, I personally run 3mm outside, 2mm inside, to keep it almost flat. I could run 1mm outside 0mm inside, but it actually makes the car have less traction.
We use the outside to "tune" our camber gain and the inside to increase or decrease our roll stiffness.
As for roll centers, I remember John Stranahan measured them on the TC5. He found the 1B was about ground level. This would be the roll center that theoretically generates the most grip. The 0B would have a slightly lower one. If I was in low grip, I would try the 1B Roll Center and adjust my springs accordingly. You would be able to get away with soft springs that would handle the bumps, give you better forward bite on the lower grip conditions and it would allow you to run more optimum camber link angles.
Kevin, suck that you didn't like the stud mounts, once you unlock the potential of them, it really is a new world. There is a reason why the Top cars out them have them (not saying the TC6 is not without them though- let's make it clear), it just makes the car more adjustable. But everyone is different, so you have to do what you have to do.
The springs are still about 4-6 weeks out. The swaybar collars hopefully the same or less.
Warren, good job and thanks for the words!
08-13-2011, 02:08 PM
#232
Piston ?
Piston ? The 1.0,1.0,1.5 piston is equal to what in Associated and Losi pistons. Do I need only one package of pistons. Thanks for the quick service, I received my order in three days.
08-13-2011, 07:17 PM
#233
The next closest thing would probably by a losi 56 I think. Yes, you only need one package of the pistons.
08-13-2011, 07:59 PM
#234
Can't wait for my order to come in. Also looking forward to the 12.5 springs. Anytime I've needed a really soft spring on a TC I looked to Associated greens, but the quality on them isn't consistent. I bought HPI orange (12.1 lbs) but depending on the brand of shock, I've needed different sizes of retainers because they are a little bigger, BUT they were better quality. The RSD springs should be the best of both worlds 
08-15-2011, 12:07 AM
#235
Race test
Yesterday I participated at a LRP-HPI-Challenge race (my first race since months). In my class we run the same motor/esc electronics (X12 17.5t/SPXzero blinky) and tires (VTEC 30X). The rest is free as long as it is a 190mm TC and HB-bodies (and EFRA legal of course). I had my TC6 equipped with Reflex 13.5lb springs all around and the delrin pistons.
The track was bumpy outdoor asphalt with medium grip (no sugar water). Again the springs impressed with calming the car. Even bumpy high speed corners couldn't irritate it. Road contact was always given. The springs harmonise excellent with pistons and damper. The car also showed a good handling and the chassis plate barely made contact with the asphalt. Even though I protected it with self-adhesive plastic film that reduced the the height about 0.5mm.
The laptimes approved my feeling and the optical feedback. I could close the gap to 1/10s to the top drivers. In result I won one qualifying, qualified overall fourth and won one A-main
The track was bumpy outdoor asphalt with medium grip (no sugar water). Again the springs impressed with calming the car. Even bumpy high speed corners couldn't irritate it. Road contact was always given. The springs harmonise excellent with pistons and damper. The car also showed a good handling and the chassis plate barely made contact with the asphalt. Even though I protected it with self-adhesive plastic film that reduced the the height about 0.5mm.
The laptimes approved my feeling and the optical feedback. I could close the gap to 1/10s to the top drivers. In result I won one qualifying, qualified overall fourth and won one A-main
08-15-2011, 03:33 AM
#236
Tech Fanatic
Well done, good result!
08-15-2011, 01:22 PM
#237
I ran the 14.5/15.5 reflex springs this past weekend at the Chipotle GP. My car felt really good with that spring combo, #2 piston, and 35wt oil all around. Car was super easy to drive, and I ended TQ and won modified. These springs are money!
08-15-2011, 01:55 PM
#238
I think for mod this weekend I'm going to try 14.5/12.5 with the pistons. Not sure about oil yet. I have no idea what the grip level will be like. I'll be using either Sweep OG 40's or Solaris Hard.
When I was swapping springs, I looked at the Associated greens that are literally new out of the box (haven't been ran!) and they are different in height by about .75mm and the silvers are off just under 1mm!
With regards to the camber link angles.... I always found cars rotated cleaner and were easier to drive with raised and mostly parallel links. It also seemed to help having a slightly longer front link as opposed to the rear, so that entry steering was smooth and the back end would "bite" into the turn. On a more technical layout simply increase the front angle a tad to create "faster" steering. Just my experience!
When I was swapping springs, I looked at the Associated greens that are literally new out of the box (haven't been ran!) and they are different in height by about .75mm and the silvers are off just under 1mm!
With regards to the camber link angles.... I always found cars rotated cleaner and were easier to drive with raised and mostly parallel links. It also seemed to help having a slightly longer front link as opposed to the rear, so that entry steering was smooth and the back end would "bite" into the turn. On a more technical layout simply increase the front angle a tad to create "faster" steering. Just my experience!
08-15-2011, 03:36 PM
#239
Fantastic feedback guys!!!
Later on tonight I will post a picture of our latest prototype. Not the DCJ's yet, even though those should be here soon. Our new part is a simple 30mm Fan Mount that bolts on directly to the 2 counter sunk screws behind the motor.
Stay Tuned!
Later on tonight I will post a picture of our latest prototype. Not the DCJ's yet, even though those should be here soon. Our new part is a simple 30mm Fan Mount that bolts on directly to the 2 counter sunk screws behind the motor.
Stay Tuned!
08-15-2011, 05:18 PM
#240
DANG IT, I just ordered a Tornado fan from RCMart 
Hey BlackedOutREVO, what was the grip like, and what tires did you use? I decided on 40wt all around, and left full rebound. In 17.5 I liked 0 rebound because the car felt smoother to drive, but for mod on carpet it felt a bit lazy.
Hey BlackedOutREVO, what was the grip like, and what tires did you use? I decided on 40wt all around, and left full rebound. In 17.5 I liked 0 rebound because the car felt smoother to drive, but for mod on carpet it felt a bit lazy.