How to Revive On-Road Racing
03-10-2011, 08:56 PM
#76
Just pondering the fact that a "GOOD" SCT is half or less what most touring chassis cost. And its about to the point that you can get a decent 1/8th buggy chassis for less than a touring car. Even with all of the carbon fiber involved I really dont see why you cant have anything on the market for $400. A worlds or Super Yokomo whatever with Masami Magic dust on it should not be $750. Thats evil if you ask me.
Would I get flogged in here if I suggested that ROAR mandate a TC with a composite chassis and no carbon fiber. I guess thats going back to the TC3. Maybe its better just to push a class like VTA.
Would I get flogged in here if I suggested that ROAR mandate a TC with a composite chassis and no carbon fiber. I guess thats going back to the TC3. Maybe its better just to push a class like VTA.
03-10-2011, 09:07 PM
#78
Just pondering the fact that a "GOOD" SCT is half or less what most touring chassis cost. And its about to the point that you can get a decent 1/8th buggy chassis for less than a touring car. Even with all of the carbon fiber involved I really dont see why you cant have anything on the market for $400. A worlds or Super Yokomo whatever with Masami Magic dust on it should not be $750. Thats evil if you ask me.
Would I get flogged in here if I suggested that ROAR mandate a TC with a composite chassis and no carbon fiber. I guess thats going back to the TC3. Maybe its better just to push a class like VTA.
Would I get flogged in here if I suggested that ROAR mandate a TC with a composite chassis and no carbon fiber. I guess thats going back to the TC3. Maybe its better just to push a class like VTA.
You don't have to run TC to race on-road. I've been racing carpet for 25 years and TC has always been an afterthought to me. Let the guys who want to race the $1500 TC set-ups do it.
A decent WGT is around $200. Electronics are the same as any other Electric class. The tires wear like iron and are spec'd. There's only two body choices that work, and if you're running 12th scale as well, many of the parts are interchangeable if you run the same brand.
TC enjoyed it's heyday. Now it's a dying art for your average club racer.
I say EMBRACE THE PANCAR. Parts are CHEAP, tires are cheap, and set-up is simple.............
03-10-2011, 09:10 PM
#79
I am sure someone would have pointed this out already but to revive just about everything depending on spare income, we need the economy to get back into shape and people to be mor erelaxed about their future financial prospects. That is not the case at the moment.
And yes, as long as a car ready to race competitively cost about 1600$ all up, (without supporting electronics such as charger and tire warmers) this will be a hobby for either the upper mid class, very dedicated, crazy or all of the above.
And yes, as long as a car ready to race competitively cost about 1600$ all up, (without supporting electronics such as charger and tire warmers) this will be a hobby for either the upper mid class, very dedicated, crazy or all of the above.
03-10-2011, 09:12 PM
#80
They don't bother me, but I think foam tires are a turn off to new comers. Otherwise I'd agree 100% about pan cars, especially WGT.
03-10-2011, 09:14 PM
#81
I am sure someone would have pointed this out already but to revive just about everything depending on spare income, we need the economy to get back into shape and people to be mor erelaxed about their future financial prospects. That is not the case at the moment.
And yes, as long as a car ready to race competitively cost about 1600$ all up, (without supporting electronics such as charger and tire warmers) this will be a hobby for either the upper mid class, very dedicated, crazy or all of the above.
And yes, as long as a car ready to race competitively cost about 1600$ all up, (without supporting electronics such as charger and tire warmers) this will be a hobby for either the upper mid class, very dedicated, crazy or all of the above.
03-10-2011, 09:18 PM
#83
Lot of suggestions here but ultimately they are arguments about how best to arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic.
What is required is a dramatic reduction in the cost to get started. The entry cost needs to be in the $149 - $179 region. If this means 1/18th scale then so be it.
When an interested spectator, for example father and teenage son observe and are excited about an RC race they observe in the parking lot of their local shopping center and they think what they are observing looks fun; and, when they approach the people running the race and ask what it might cost for one of them to race, you can draw a graph showing the likely hood of their racing, inversely proportional to the cost. After $200 that graph angles sharply down; when you get to the actual cost of a current competitive 1/10, the graph is almost at zero, most likely.
Every sport/hobby has a certain rate of attrition; which must be made up by new blood. At $149 you have a fighting chance to recruit new racers at $700+ you have almost zero chance long term.
If you disagree I think you need to explain why something like racing remote control cars which is by its very nature very attractive to 15- 25 year old males, in reality attracts so few 10 -25 year old male participants.
It appears manufactures and retailers can produce a decent 4wd RTR rally/sedan on road vehicle profitably (Associated RC18 style vehicles) for $129-$149. My guess is that if they scaled up production and lowered margin a $99 on road RTR is do able; in fact a brushless, 2.4ghz, lipo package, with a decent quick charger for $199 shouldn't be a problem.
What is required is a dramatic reduction in the cost to get started. The entry cost needs to be in the $149 - $179 region. If this means 1/18th scale then so be it.
When an interested spectator, for example father and teenage son observe and are excited about an RC race they observe in the parking lot of their local shopping center and they think what they are observing looks fun; and, when they approach the people running the race and ask what it might cost for one of them to race, you can draw a graph showing the likely hood of their racing, inversely proportional to the cost. After $200 that graph angles sharply down; when you get to the actual cost of a current competitive 1/10, the graph is almost at zero, most likely.
Every sport/hobby has a certain rate of attrition; which must be made up by new blood. At $149 you have a fighting chance to recruit new racers at $700+ you have almost zero chance long term.
If you disagree I think you need to explain why something like racing remote control cars which is by its very nature very attractive to 15- 25 year old males, in reality attracts so few 10 -25 year old male participants.
It appears manufactures and retailers can produce a decent 4wd RTR rally/sedan on road vehicle profitably (Associated RC18 style vehicles) for $129-$149. My guess is that if they scaled up production and lowered margin a $99 on road RTR is do able; in fact a brushless, 2.4ghz, lipo package, with a decent quick charger for $199 shouldn't be a problem.
as a total newbie to the rc world , who now has a grand total of one race under his belt , i totally agree with this post . i am now hooked on rc's and racing , but the initial comitment level (build time and cost) that is required to start onroad racing is simply too large for the majority of people who are interested , imo . if you want to attract more new racers , you have to make it as easy as possible for them . my experience is that onroad makes it MUCH too difficult . if you can get the interested newbie onto the track with a car as quickly and easily as possible , many of them will stick around . i think that onroad racing is probably losing a lot of racers before they even start .
03-10-2011, 09:25 PM
#84
I am sure many of us have been out in a park with an old TC darting around. Some one comes up and ask how fast? How much? Where can I get it? Some are turned off by kits rather than RTR's. Others think you bought it at Walmart. "Yeah my kid has one just like that."
I have seen a lot of good points made and I think this thread is a good idea and its a real issue. VTA is not the end all answer to stop the bleeding of racers away from touring, but it is a form of TC racing that is easier to get into than full on TC. Plus it has an emotion to it, a theme a texture that many people are totally in love with. Makes a great stepping stone for those with something to step to. For me its the only decent thing to do with a touring car. Maybe USGT if it makes it to my area.
Another point brought up here is that the price point for entry is too high. So what is the solution? Mini Coopers, VTA, WGT? The OFNA Touring car?
Last edited by snoopyrc; 03-10-2011 at 09:39 PM.
03-10-2011, 09:34 PM
#86
as a total newbie to the rc world , who now has a grand total of one race under his belt , i totally agree with this post . i am now hooked on rc's and racing , but the initial comitment level (build time and cost) that is required to start onroad racing is simply too large for the majority of people who are interested , imo . if you want to attract more new racers , you have to make it as easy as possible for them . my experience is that onroad makes it MUCH too difficult . if you can get the interested newbie onto the track with a car as quickly and easily as possible , many of them will stick around . i think that onroad racing is probably losing a lot of racers before they even start .
Which leads me back to my original point in this thread. Nobody makes an Indy 500 field w/ out CONSIDERABLE knowledge and talent. The learning curve in On-road needs to be shortened, and that's up to the On-Road vets helping the newbies IMO.
03-10-2011, 09:45 PM
#88
I think I know how we can get there with this gas going up like it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TViEzHJrMcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TViEzHJrMcM
03-10-2011, 09:55 PM
#89
I think I know how we can get there with this gas going up like it is.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TViEzHJrMcM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TViEzHJrMcM
good night RCtech....one more for the road...
vta
03-10-2011, 09:59 PM
#90
Tech Addict
iTrader: (14)
I think the real difference is that all off-roaders drive like crap. You can make various changes to enhance the way an off-road car drives, but generally, they're still bags of @$$. Any decent On-road car requires attention to detail because they are more precise. It's sorta like the difference between racing a late model dirt car at your local dirt oval, and trying to make the field at the Indy 500.
Which leads me back to my original point in this thread. Nobody makes an Indy 500 field w/ out CONSIDERABLE knowledge and talent. The learning curve in On-road needs to be shortened, and that's up to the On-Road vets helping the newbies IMO.
Which leads me back to my original point in this thread. Nobody makes an Indy 500 field w/ out CONSIDERABLE knowledge and talent. The learning curve in On-road needs to be shortened, and that's up to the On-Road vets helping the newbies IMO.
Yeah, you are kind of right there. Stepping curve has to be shortened, hence why i think the blinky classes were made, ie rcgt and vta. You also mentioned that the "vets" need to help out more. Everyone likes to talk online about helping this, helping that. IMHO, it's a bunch of bullshit. Every track i went to, the so called vets were either talking up a more expensive class and talking down rcgt and teasing some of their buddies about stepping up to a "real" class, or looking like they were going to launch a space shuttle with the amount of stuff they were pulling out of their bags and plugging in. I literally watched someone plug stuff up and set up for 1/2 hour before even pulling out a chassis.
Whenever someone needs help at the track, I try to do as much as possible, but it's the "veterans" that are all concerned about taking 1/2 their car apart, adding weight, tweaking this, tweaking that, putting their car on the setup station every 2 laps they take, etc.
If veterans want to help, step down to a beginner class and start teaching the young rookies a thing or two instead of talking them into a faster class. Every "veteran" is concerned about running 10 god damn classes, just look at the Ironman thread on this section.
I tell you one thing, scale rules. It's what got me away from trugs and into SC racing and it's what got me in RCGT. Myself and a few buddies saw it, loved the looks, loved the low initial cost. Hell, I have less than 400 in my jrxs-r, but let's be realistic here. How much does it take to get into on-road....we are talking about a serious investment here. I am talking from scratch. Every bottle of shock oil, every hex driver, all the little bits that are not mentioned but usually add up to more than the cost of the car. Face it, nobody wants to go to the track with a car and controller, you need more than that.
Cost, attitudes of the so called "veterans" and the fact that 90 percent of the tc cars look the same is what is keeping people away.
Sorry for the rant, I call them as I see them. I call them as a person who just started and unbiased.