Setup setup setup....
 

So I recently got a T2R Pro(had no idea the T3R was coming out, oh well) I've never had a touring car with a spool before. I used to have an 8th scale on road car, but that spool was in the rear. I read the Xray setup book to death, trying to find a way to get this thing to turn in more like a one way diff. I know it'll never be quite the same, but I'd like to try. The car is loose on power. It pushes like a dump truck entering corners.

Is there some nifty technique that isn't in teh setup book, on how to make the thing turn in more aggressively? When I run my Pro 4, it does exactly what I want it to. The T2R feels like a Walmart special... I'm waiting FOREVER for it to turn in. I toed out the front wheels, and increased the Ackerman. I'd like more turn in, but I don't want to lose any mid corner steering. Is there a setup that does both, or am I basically just stuck and need to get a one way?

I got a few responses in the T2R thread, but would like more suggestions. Any "Spool Masters" that have some info, suggestions?

What surface, what class, what tyres?

I would start with a setup for a t2 or t2 007 of someone whos running at your track and has a decent handling car. In theory the more flexy chassis should provide more grip, but that's not always good, there could be too much rear grip making throw the car around. The car sounds pretty bad so I wouldn't be afraid of trying complete changes until it's at least close. Standing up the rear shocks and a little less rear toe are good starting points. Some cars also work better if you can tap the brake before entering the turn, if this is the case you may want to soften the front so the weight can transfer over the front wheels without the use of the brakes.

Post your setup R40!

Sorry I didn't have all the relevant info! :sweat:

Semi smooth asphalt, can get pretty hot. 13.5 Touring class, unlimited tires at the moment. I'm running rubber tires, Take Off RP40s. The body on it now is an old Stratus body I had laying around(it will suffice until my Protoform LTC-R gets back from the paint booth)

Here are some vids of the track, I don't yet have any of the T2R in action. Our first real race got rained out, so we'll have another in two weeks. I'll get some good vids to post, but for now, this is the track: (that silver car is my old Pro 4, the car from my avatar)

+ YouTube Video

My setup is pretty much the rubber setup from the T2R Pro build. I followed the manual's suggestions for rubber racing, medium traction. I did toe it out up front a bit more, and I do have the ride height pretty high. I thought about lowering it, but didn't want to tear up the chassis or lob it into the air. We blow the track off, but inevitably some little pebble gets out there and boom, a car goes flying. :cry:

I was thinking about kick up and dive. I've been reading the setup guide, and it seems all I can do is sacrifice some mid corner and corner exit for turn in. I fear my best option really is a one way. Have any of you found a happy medium with the spool? I do like the high speed on power steering. It allows me to get under my competition. I also like the brakes, it allows me to follow closer with more confidence.

As you can see, I'm trying to figure out which option will best suit my style and this track. My VTA car(Pro 4 with one way front diff) turns in SO well, and I really like that. I can rush up to a corner; mid corner is very good, and decent on power steering to fly out of it. I just don't have those killer brakes, and I have to setup for long on power sweepers completely different. meh! :lol:

Without posting your exact setup, there just isn't enough information to help. I run a spool in my T2009, on a low-medium traction outdoor asphault track, and the car turns on a dime entering corners.

Try some anti-dive in the front ;)

Is it posted? I'd love to take a look at your setup Cpt. America.


R40, talk to the fast guys and see what they recommend. Since it's open tire, you need to be sure to have the proper tire. 40 shore might be a bit too hard. Unfortunately, open tire = tire war so make sure you're on the winning side.

One thing I can suggest is to run the Ackerman notch forward. I ran it backwards recently and it hurt turn-in a good bit.

Thanks for the suggestions. There are no fast guys at my track; we just started this race program. So we ARE the fast guys... :lol:

Like I said, my old Pro 4 is running circles around my brand new T2R. I feel like the spool is hindering the car. It pushes entering, and is so loose exiting, that I have to be very careful. I do like using it in the long on power sweeper, but feel like I have to "tip toe" around all the tight corners. The Pro 4 on the other hand, seems to take allot more driving to get around that on power sweeper, but turns in and handles all the other curves like it should... it CARVES through the infield.

I'm starting to think I may try a ball diff. It's way cheaper, and if it didn't work out, I would have a nice spare to throw in the car as needed(I don't like to build/rebuild them dang things!)

What is your droop and ride height set at?

Ride height is around 7 mm. I suppose that makes the droop about the same number. I have it pretty high, so I clear most of the little things on the track.

Sorry R40.. but we would of been able to help just as much had your original question been:

"hi.. my car drives funny, what can I do"?

We would need your exact setup... giving us estimates at ride height and droop, just wont get anybody anywhere... and going from a spool to a ball diff in the front, to try and correct a problem that is completely correctable with a proper setup, isn't the way to go... it will only be a bandaid. You still have a setup problem. There are a LOT of small changes that can dramatically help off-power turnin, allowing you to keep the onpower advantages of the spool.

Get your car onto a setup station, and write down all of the following EXACTLY: This is what we need:

Front:
tire
ride height
droop (if you don't know how to measure droop, ask)
spring
oil
shock piston
upper shock position
lower control arm roll center position
upper control arm roll center position inside
upper control arm roll center position outside
steering block ackerman position
servo saver ackerman position
camber
toe
caster
anti-sway bars
front wheelbase setting
front track setting

Rear:
tire
ride height
droop
spring
oil
shock piston
upper shock position
lower control arm roll center position
upper control arm roll center position inside
upper control arm roll center position outside
camber
toe
anti-sway bars
rear wheelbase setting
rear track setting
diff tightness

Ok, with the exception of ride height and front toe, this is my setup:

http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/sho...p?file_id=4995

edit:.. forget it.

To add, changing your ride height that much is going to have an effect on camber and toe as well, these all need to be readjusted.

I deleted my reply. I just can't help people, that wont help me, help them.

lol, now I remember why I hardly messed with any of the settings on my Pro 4.

Man, I'm not trying to frustrate you, just asking for suggestions. I never got as specific as other on road guys, because I could just drive the car. Box stock setups with minor changes are often my best bet. So I'm looking for suggestions on changes, not a complete setup.

What everyone considers med traction asphalt can be severely varied, I would be pretty sure that the box stock t2r setup on a prepped track would not feel like it does on your track. The pro4 was developed when outdoor WAS parking lot racing, and I'd be the stock setup is better suited for it. I had that car when it came out 3 years ago, and my car was very tweaked out of the box, always pushed left, hooked right and wouldn't even drive straight, I ended up buying the CF chassis and parts to make it a real t2, but I never liked the way that car felt. I ended up with a type-r which with the box setup was much better balanced for me.

I know you aren't trying to frustrate me... but pointing me to a setup sheet that you followed.. and taking actual measurements from a setup station, are two totally different things.... especially if your car has yet to ever go on a station.

Yeah, I'm looking into getting one. Like I said, I never bothered making many changes to my other cars, they all worked much better out of the box. The more I think about it, the more I just wanna get rid of the spool and go with what works... a one way. :sweat:

FOUND SOMETHING! I'm not sure if it's the main reason, but certainly an influence. I was going through my car, looking for loose screws, wires, etc... as anyone should do after running a new car a few times. I was revving it up on the bench, its smooth(love the Xray smoothness), that is until I turned the front wheels. It sounds TERRIBLE when I turn the front wheels more than about 30 degrees. I'm at my shop and can't post it, but I did take a vid to demonstrate. Initially, I found one of the CVD drive pins started to come out. Put it back and it still does it. I cannot see what's vibrating. It almost seems like the CVDs cannot deflect very far without severe vibration. I'm thinking this could be why my car turns in so poorly.

Theories, suggestions?

These are normal characteristics when using a spool. So nothing special there.
If it is really really bad, lower your steering EPA value.

Yeh, Yeh....how bout you get a hall pass so you can come out and lend some of that expertise to us rookies !!:D:lol:

Yes chatter does affect handling, xray has ECS versions of their driveshafts that eliminate that, but they cost half as much as your car ;) Pretty much all single joint axles chatter with a spool, some less than others. You can lower your steering throw and then tune in steering with camber links, rear toe, etc.

It sounds like you used too much loctite, and it mixed with your black grease on your front drive shafts. When that happens the grease itself turns to glue.... the loctite contaminates the grease... common build issue with new xray kit builders

Take a front drive shaft out of the car compeltely, hold it in your hands, and see if the axle half of the shaft can freely bend in all directions. If it is free side to side, but binds going up and down (or vicaversa), that is your issue...

WRONG

I always struggled with setting the front end toe-out on my 1/12th car. Then I saw Brian Wynn measuring the distance between the front of the rims and then between the rear of the rims.

Did some experimenting and found that 0.6mm difference from front to rear is very close to 1 degree of toe-out and for WGT 0.8mm is the same. The difference is, of course the diameter of the rim.

Now, I suppose you could do the same with the top and bottom of sedan wheels for both toe-in/out and camber as well. The trick is that the car has to be sitting on the ground when making the camber measurements.

Anyway, this could be a way of avoiding the cost of a setup station.

When building drive shafts I typically use red loc tite. That way, I can use less, and it's unlikely to fly apart during a race. I'll remove them again tomorrow, and see if they're free or not. I didn't notice any stiffness when I was re-centering the pins. One front and one rear came loose on opposite sides. Coincidence, I dunno... still learning this car. I have a stain gun that shoots acetone at high pressure. I can blast them clean and rebuild them, being very careful with the loc-tite this time. ;)

Thanks for the help guys, I'll get a chance to mess with it tomorrow. I'm not entirely ready to give up on the spool, but it's gotta change from what it's doing now.

The car doesn't vibrate or chatter under a load.It only does it sitting on a tech stand sitting still.
My car did some weird things when I changed settings on my speedo.I fought it until I found out it was in my radio .I had to change some radio settings to suit the changes I made in the speedo settings.:tire:

im looking at a car and can i put rubber tires on a foam spec car?:confused::confused: i race off-road so not new to rc just on-road

It's perfectly smooth, even when you turn the wheels just a bit. Anything beyond that and it sounds terrible. I made a vid, and will host and post it tomorrow. Then you guys can see.

I started to think the drive belt was hitting the steering somehow, but it isn't. It just chatters badly when the CVDs are deflected far enough. Limiting the throw would make it impossible to navigate the track I race on.

I don't see why not. The primary difference seems to be the stiffness of the chassis. Try it.

Onroad 1/10th sedans chassis' have hex adaptors that fit both rubber and foam tire wheels.

Usually the difference between foam and rubber spec chassis are the overall stiffness, springs, and diff options, most foam cars run dual diffs, most rubber run one diff and a spool or one-way. You can mount either tire on either car. If you run high traction carpet tracks many use the foam chassis to help the car not traction roll.

Here's a vid of the issue. I still need to take it apart and confirm the CVDs are free:

+ YouTube Video

Are you 100% sure its not rubbing on the spring perch of the shock? if its not, that's still about the point you'd start to hear chatter, I'm not saying that you can't make it better.

After watching the video.. id be surprised if loctite was your issue.... when loctite contamonates your driveshaft grease, the chatter is 10x worse than that... the whole front end of the car shakes. What you are seeing there wont affect performance on the track... but checking "Free wobble" of your driveshafts out of the car would still be a good thing to look at.

I just looked again, and nothing is touching anywhere. I guess that's just the nature of this beast. I wonder if it'd still happen with a one way up front... Oh well, if I can't get this thing to drive my way, I'll get a one way. [shrugs shoulders]

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it. :)

I thought the one-way was a joke, a one-way is NOT your answer, a diff up front would be much better.

Well, I've driven all three types of diffs(not all in the same car) and of the three, my favorite is the one way. I run faster with my old Pro 4 than I do with my brand new T2R. The Pro 4 turns in SO MUCH BETTER that I feel like I'm gonna take a nap waiting for the T2R to finally turn in. It's also loose on power, making it very frustrating to try and be fast with it.

We have a race coming up in about a week. I plan to spend the day deep in my setup book, and try everything. I don't want to just give up and spend $70 if I don't need to. The problem is, if I stick to the spool, and get the setup to where I'm happy, it'll still be a significantly different driving style than my other cars. I have a hard time going back and forth on the same race day. I get used to one, and when I swap, it's like I forgot how to drive. Going from the M18 to the Pro 4 seems easy, even with the big difference in size. Going from either of those cars to the T2R is a headache, very frustrating.