It has been said here that a 3.5 BL with Lipo is turning lap times of a 19t 4cell, is this true :eek:. If that is true what would you run in Mod?

Ditto.

This is exactly the same argument put forward when we got SCRs, SCRCs, SCEs, Panasonics... If you look at the 30-year history of cells, it is that new technology often didn't do what it promised at first, but eventually it did. Making these statements based on less than 12 months usage isn't safe. I've had these cells too, for almost 10 months, and never had a single problem. Placing your experience onto everyone isn't a good basis for an effective diagnosis of the situation.

The change isn't the stone tablet, it would be change if we could have thought transference. We still write. Most people don't shell out $200 per season, but you are asking them to shell out $00s for a new charger, balancer and wiring system to run LiPo. LiPo at the current level of technology looks great, but so did 1200Mah when we ran 35T motors for four minutes in 12th. Give it time, there will be all sorts of upgrading required to keep pace in LiPo, and none of the batteries will reach the end of their useful life before being superceded...

...just like computers! I need 500Mb of RAM because of the inefficiency of the software, nothing else has changed. I use Broadband because of the inefficiency of web pages, nothing else has changed. This is not new technology, it is upgrading of existing technology to improve performance to take account of poor efficiency. We don't have that problem in 12th. LiPo is not a technology upgrade, and it doesn't improve performance, it is simply a different way of delivering the same thing.

However, it would also mean everyone had to change their 12th cars suspension to cope with the weight changes, and invest in receiver packs that need additional charging, and change weight rules and... seems to me to be a major inconvenience to all 12th racers. It isn't the upgrade to LiPos that is the issue, it is the consequnces of that that will be a downside.

You have to be careful about what LiPo you're talking about, For the single cell voltage a 3.5 was about the same speed as a 5.5 on 4 cells. A 13.5 (sintered) on single cell voltage is slower than brushed stock 4 cell.

My personal opinion is that they should leave the stock and 19 turn classes as is. If we do anything to the stock and 19 turn classes that might slow them down peoples heads will explode.

For mod, I would like to see the option of 2 cell LiPo with a capacity limit on the pack. Limit to say 3200 mAh or so and let the drivers actually drive again. The cars would be much faster on the straight when you pull it but if you pull it too much you'll dump. It puts all of the strategy and driver skill back into mod. LiPo would get a huge weight break also.

SlowerOne,

Let me guess, you run stock.

So I am the only one to wake up in the middle of the night and think "Oh s**t I forgot to charge my batteries"? and I would rather spend the $160 for a Tekin battery doctor on something that isn't an expensive fix for a bad problem (such as tires. I always need more tires)

A majority of new chargers come with lipo capabilities (if they keep up with cell technology they must no longer be using a time charger), balancers only need to be used a few times a year (or less) so a few of your race buddies can throw in some cash and everyone goes home with balanced lipo packs, and I have no idea what you mean by wiring system.

inefficiency is something we have to put up with. it is inefficient to buy a bad product twice a year (more or less depending on a lot of factors) when you can buy something once and use it until you don't have a need for it, rather then you can't use it anymore due to its flawed design.

we change cars to cope with surface changes. How many 12th cars do you have? I doubt you have one car that is THE car to have on EVERY surface.*

*I originally wrote a huge argument regarding the rest of your points, but I ended up going so far off topic that... well... it made me seem even weirder then I make myself out to be.

Nope, we run Stock and Mod over here, and I generally run Mod at Club. We find that BL in Mod means that cells are no longer an issue, for either voltage or duration.

12th is a driving class, and it is simple to enter because the technology and designs are stable, the drivers are very helpful, and the class is fun. Part of the de-stabilisation of TC has been the relentless change over the last three years - a situation we don't need.

Whether or not LiPo is the future, it has been the incessant clamour for 'equivalence' that has added to this uncertainty, especially in TC. What's needed is a proper alternative class that allows in the new technology, and gives people a proper choice, and not an endless (and unresolvable) discussion about equivalence.

Personally, I believe that it would be better to use 7.4v, and to use the 18th size (eg Mamba) BL motors with a weight limit about 500g - these are products that enhance the speed, agility and simplicity of 12th. That way we don't add the complication of receiver packs, the cell capacity limits itself, and we get to move forward, not stay stuck in a useless loop about equvalence, where there is none. This way, we can get the advantages of the LiPo and BL way of delivering and converting power, the light, speedy nature of 12th that rewards the driver, and we have the advantage of not adding any additional complexity.

New developments in batteries and cells need to be offered by a new market (class) not by a simplistic approach that brings uncertainty to a class whose main attraction is its stability and ease of access. Whatever we do, it must never be to allow the mistakes of TC to be visited on 12th.

Instead of focusing on some part of the technology, focus on the overall benefit to 12th - stop talking about the price of everything, and focus on the value of something.

alright, no more arguing about lipo; let's get this thought into reality.

Stock and mod 12th were both a driver's class 10 years ago but now, all you have to do is yank on the throttle and try not to hit anything.

Back in the day, the top drivers had to use a smooth throttle finger, good strategy, and a clean run to finish. It was the total package that won the race. If you hit another driver it hurt both of you. The racing was cleaner because it had to be.

Now, you can drive mod pretty much as hard as a stocker and punt anyone you like at a big race. You won't dump and the promoters of the big races will do nothing about the bad driving that's going on.

I won't get into sedan but it's a similar story.

Is there a reason why Lipo battery cannot be made in a Sub-C casing? If you cannot tell I don't know much about Lipo's

I agree....just a few years ago w/3300s runtime was an issue. Many top drivers had to use a receiver pack. Today is a different story just as you mentioned. I'm with OD on this one and hope lipo never makes it to 1/12. Why do we need to change when we have all the battery capacity we need.

What''s next, running 3 cell just to slow the cars down? This is not TC! :nod:

Man that is the truth, I like the ease/use of lipo in TC; it makes sense and while I'm not against change change just for the sake of change is wrong.

never enough runtime.i want 30 minute mains at club races:lol:

Actually, at some of the smaller tracks up north stock 4 cell 1/12th is getting too fast for novices wanting to get into it.

Thats not the main reasin for trying LiPo though. Its battery life. I race competatively. This means replacing batteries every 4 months or so even though I take obsessive care of them. After 4 months wether you race them or not, take care of them or not thier IR's go up, run time goes down, cells drop dead for no reason, etc....

I have 2 year old LiPo packs for my R/C planes and helis that are still as good as the day I got them.

I will be testing 1s2p (3.7v) 4000mah and 5000mah LiPo packs in 2 weeks at the next MINNREG race in practice to see for myself how the car handles. I plan on testing a Novak 10.5 and a Novak 4.5.

Then may I suggest running nitro.:D:)

been there a long time ago.1/12th 1/2 hour mains would be fun as hell