XRAY T3
11-29-2009, 06:00 PM
#916
I know Goat - I'm the wind beneath your wings
I just start drilling from the outside of the cap prior to building the shock. Drilling from the inside out could go badly. There is a large area to hit within the side section of the shock. Make sure you hole is covered by the blader once its installed. You should just be able to free hand this.
Then follow the kit instructions -- i.e. add oil, get the air out from under the piston, let it sit for 5 min, and screw together.
Ok...so if i understand correct, you drill from outside the shock cap on an angle towards the center. You don't start drilling from the inside out.
Do you have a pic or doe it not really matter where the hole ends up? Last thing. Just fill the shocks up and your finished?
Thanks for the help
Do you have a pic or doe it not really matter where the hole ends up? Last thing. Just fill the shocks up and your finished?
Thanks for the help
Then follow the kit instructions -- i.e. add oil, get the air out from under the piston, let it sit for 5 min, and screw together.
11-29-2009, 06:06 PM
#917
11-29-2009, 07:41 PM
#922
Just took the front end off of my T3 to get a better look at the damage.
It appears that Xray may have made the right analysis about chassis flex, sorta.... based on the damage, I am guessing what happened was that in the turn the chassis was doing it's thing of flexing... but then I hit the side. Due to the flex in the chassis, the counter-sunk screw hole expanded slightly, so when the impact occurred, the screw had a "slightly larger than normal" hole that it was forced through. The location of the nearby hole to support the suspension holder allows the chassis to flex that much further. The distance between the two is only about 1.75mm on the bottom side of the chassis.
For comparison, you would see similar damage to a piece of wood if you hammered a nail through the wood. That is, the splintering effect radiating from the hole.
I still firmly believe this is a design flaw. Too many people are seeing failures in the same location due to the same type of impacts. I believe that as the weeks continue on with more and more racers putting their T3's on the track, the number of people reporting failures will increase. It's probably only a matter of time before more people see these issues.
I'm not trying to bash Xray regarding this issue... I am merely pointing out I am yet another victim of this failure. I don't have enough experience with the brand to completely make a judgment yet; the fact is that new designs are bound to exhibit things engineers didn't anticipate.
If Xrays were perfect, they wouldn't be making revisions to them every year. So, I'll (personally) reserve judgment on the brand while Xray collects the data related to the failure and makes the proper correction to the design. The new bulkhead may be their "fix" but I think this is really a band-aid, and they may have to make some more corrections to the chassis in the future.
It appears that Xray may have made the right analysis about chassis flex, sorta.... based on the damage, I am guessing what happened was that in the turn the chassis was doing it's thing of flexing... but then I hit the side. Due to the flex in the chassis, the counter-sunk screw hole expanded slightly, so when the impact occurred, the screw had a "slightly larger than normal" hole that it was forced through. The location of the nearby hole to support the suspension holder allows the chassis to flex that much further. The distance between the two is only about 1.75mm on the bottom side of the chassis.
For comparison, you would see similar damage to a piece of wood if you hammered a nail through the wood. That is, the splintering effect radiating from the hole.
I still firmly believe this is a design flaw. Too many people are seeing failures in the same location due to the same type of impacts. I believe that as the weeks continue on with more and more racers putting their T3's on the track, the number of people reporting failures will increase. It's probably only a matter of time before more people see these issues.
I'm not trying to bash Xray regarding this issue... I am merely pointing out I am yet another victim of this failure. I don't have enough experience with the brand to completely make a judgment yet; the fact is that new designs are bound to exhibit things engineers didn't anticipate.
If Xrays were perfect, they wouldn't be making revisions to them every year. So, I'll (personally) reserve judgment on the brand while Xray collects the data related to the failure and makes the proper correction to the design. The new bulkhead may be their "fix" but I think this is really a band-aid, and they may have to make some more corrections to the chassis in the future.
11-29-2009, 08:16 PM
#924
I agree the test video seems very compelling. However, what I would expect from a manufacturer is not to tell me that their car is strong and put up a video to support it, but to replicate the accident and tell me why they think it happened (i.e. what I need to avoid doing). Telling me to avoid crashing would be just a bad joke though. In the real world, this is just something they have to forsee would happen and in the past their cars have been very good in this respect (i.e. they have a very good track record of building very strong cars capable of taking a beating without a problem. This reputation they have achieved is at stake here).
Back to the issue of handling a defect, I expect a manufacturer to do basically three things:
1 Acknowledge the issue exists
2 Find the real reason for the problem
3 Replace under warranty all parts affected by the defect
Alternatively they can take the one step way out and refund full purchase price and take back the car.
Actually I think Xray should offer the customer a choice between these options.
I think the numbers and spread of statistical evidence suggests there is a problem.
Xray has not fully and clearly acknowledged this. They first came with a message reinforcing the instruction in the manual to use CA glue on the holes. The public responded in their vast majority that they did.
Xray then released the video to show the chassis is strong enough. This stirred up a new controversy as people questioned Xray replicated what is actually happenning in a crash. This has the effect that people think Xray is trying to brush them off. Not a good idea, Xray.
Next, Xray has come out with a new part and jokes about optimisation aside, they claimed the new part prevents the problem but takes away some of the edge of the car. They offerred the new part at cost to the customers who wanted to be safe. No word about the people who already had their chassis destroyed who would need to buy a new chassis on top of the replacement part. At this point Xray has to realise a 500$ car kit has just gone upwards of 600$.
This does not equate in my eyes to finding the root of the problem. It does not address some important (and reasonable) questions that have been asked here and on other forums:
Was it a batch of poor quality CF plates?
Was it poor design?
Was it something the user did?
If so, what?
As demonstrated above, Xray appeared to hint that it was the user's fault and they should have used CA glue or not crash that hard. This was refuted by customers saying they used CA glue and they had not crashed hard enough to justify the chassis breaking. I tend to believe this especially since there is no other car on the market (or there has ever been one) to break the chassis like that in any significant numbers. That takes out those last two questions and the ball is in Xray's court again to answer the two questions they have avoided so far.
Which is not easy. They're the most uncomfortable questions for Xray. For the customer it doesn't even make a difference. If there was poor design or faulty CF, Xray should take responsibility (not to say they are at fault, but admit they have a contractual obligation to the customer) and do the right thing, i.e. replace all parts broken by their customers due to this problem. I think this is the only way to show goodwill and put an end to controversy.
Some distributors in countries with a long established tradition of responsibility to the consumer have already demonstrated they share this view of mine and taken it upon themselves to show a level of support they think Xray should show. I commend these people and hope Xray will understand the huge difference this can make to their bussiness and take the hint.
I intended to buy this car, but will not shell out the dosh if I don't see the issue addressed as outlined here and receive proper assurance from my local dealer that I am not going to be out of pocket if the problem happens to me.
One last suggestion. If I had a broken car like that and had no local dealer to talk to, I would write Xray an email outlining my view and see what they say. If need be, I would even write them a letter and offer to send them my car for them to inspect and make up their minds. I would also suggest what I think they should have done in their test. this should really put the pressure on them to come with an answer. If they don't, then (at least in Australia) you have a case to take further to the office for consumer affairs or the courts. And I would encourage you to do it.
Back to the issue of handling a defect, I expect a manufacturer to do basically three things:
1 Acknowledge the issue exists
2 Find the real reason for the problem
3 Replace under warranty all parts affected by the defect
Alternatively they can take the one step way out and refund full purchase price and take back the car.
Actually I think Xray should offer the customer a choice between these options.
I think the numbers and spread of statistical evidence suggests there is a problem.
Xray has not fully and clearly acknowledged this. They first came with a message reinforcing the instruction in the manual to use CA glue on the holes. The public responded in their vast majority that they did.
Xray then released the video to show the chassis is strong enough. This stirred up a new controversy as people questioned Xray replicated what is actually happenning in a crash. This has the effect that people think Xray is trying to brush them off. Not a good idea, Xray.
Next, Xray has come out with a new part and jokes about optimisation aside, they claimed the new part prevents the problem but takes away some of the edge of the car. They offerred the new part at cost to the customers who wanted to be safe. No word about the people who already had their chassis destroyed who would need to buy a new chassis on top of the replacement part. At this point Xray has to realise a 500$ car kit has just gone upwards of 600$.
This does not equate in my eyes to finding the root of the problem. It does not address some important (and reasonable) questions that have been asked here and on other forums:
Was it a batch of poor quality CF plates?
Was it poor design?
Was it something the user did?
If so, what?
As demonstrated above, Xray appeared to hint that it was the user's fault and they should have used CA glue or not crash that hard. This was refuted by customers saying they used CA glue and they had not crashed hard enough to justify the chassis breaking. I tend to believe this especially since there is no other car on the market (or there has ever been one) to break the chassis like that in any significant numbers. That takes out those last two questions and the ball is in Xray's court again to answer the two questions they have avoided so far.
Which is not easy. They're the most uncomfortable questions for Xray. For the customer it doesn't even make a difference. If there was poor design or faulty CF, Xray should take responsibility (not to say they are at fault, but admit they have a contractual obligation to the customer) and do the right thing, i.e. replace all parts broken by their customers due to this problem. I think this is the only way to show goodwill and put an end to controversy.
Some distributors in countries with a long established tradition of responsibility to the consumer have already demonstrated they share this view of mine and taken it upon themselves to show a level of support they think Xray should show. I commend these people and hope Xray will understand the huge difference this can make to their bussiness and take the hint.
I intended to buy this car, but will not shell out the dosh if I don't see the issue addressed as outlined here and receive proper assurance from my local dealer that I am not going to be out of pocket if the problem happens to me.
One last suggestion. If I had a broken car like that and had no local dealer to talk to, I would write Xray an email outlining my view and see what they say. If need be, I would even write them a letter and offer to send them my car for them to inspect and make up their minds. I would also suggest what I think they should have done in their test. this should really put the pressure on them to come with an answer. If they don't, then (at least in Australia) you have a case to take further to the office for consumer affairs or the courts. And I would encourage you to do it.
Last edited by niznai; 11-30-2009 at 12:07 AM.
11-29-2009, 10:11 PM
#926
Suspended
Wow, from the amount of pictures i've seen and horror stories i've read about i'm glad i bought my mi4lp! Seems xray really should be replacing anybody with a broken chassis the parts free of charge!
11-29-2009, 10:40 PM
#927
I'm still going to get one. 
11-30-2009, 12:13 AM
#928
Xray came out with a fix, get it and put it on and be done with it.
http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/new...d3c87e2f5e8b8a
Also read that Xray will give the updated part to the people who already bought their kits for free.
The part will be included in the next batch of kits as an option to the regular standoffs.
What more do you want. As far as I'm concerned, Xray acted quickly to correct this problem and should be commended for it.
http://www.teamxray.com/teamxray/new...d3c87e2f5e8b8a
Also read that Xray will give the updated part to the people who already bought their kits for free.
The part will be included in the next batch of kits as an option to the regular standoffs.
What more do you want. As far as I'm concerned, Xray acted quickly to correct this problem and should be commended for it.
Im the only one in Australia I know of that has broken one. Lucky me!
I will buy a new chassis but I was wondering how I get my free optimised front suspension mount #302047?
Any info thanks in advance.
BTW My buddy down here pulled a 2nd in the Australian titles with a 1 week old T3 in Super Stock/10.5 in 45c heat outdoors. We measured some tyres coming off the track at 140F. This is a good car. I run mod and out of the box it felt great untill I broke it avoiding traffic in practice
Ended up trying to nurse a broken car all qualifying and it let go last run.
Making A in 1/12 made the pain go away
11-30-2009, 02:34 AM
#930
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
I saw my first T3 get broken last night at the end of racing on Chris Adams car.
The damage was the at front of the chassis where the rear front arm suspension holder mounts. The impact was with a 13.5 powered T3 at about 3/4 speed on a straight hitting another car that was at a dead stop.
The damage was the at front of the chassis where the rear front arm suspension holder mounts. The impact was with a 13.5 powered T3 at about 3/4 speed on a straight hitting another car that was at a dead stop.