i think this is the new crc speedo

i wonder if it will be a update able type speedo like tekin or ko

WOW... interesting subject.....

I doubt that a better software or speedo in general wouldn't offer some advantage in racing but on most tracks I have raced at in my years of RC you always win races in the corners, not on the straight. Alot of winging I have heard over the years about ppl's straight line speed is explained by how much faster they are exiting the corners.

conner speed is the most important but the software helps to give you the rip out of the conners and the straight away speed at lest that is what i see.

Yeah that's the one I saw that CRC mentioned to me...it's a great looking ESC and I look forward to CRC getting it out on the market.

do you know if it will have updateable firmware ?

this is just plain funny!!! again some people are compaining that they got beat by someone who has the newest and greatest xyz component from xyz manuf. i see so lets bash on the new stuff hoping that your comment will prevent the product from moving forward just bcuz you got beat by it. face it people this hobby changes... maybe not as fast as the computer industry but it does happen. what it comes down to is this some people either A) dont have the money to buy xyz product, or B) doesnt want to give up on the 6 year old stuff he is running becuz he resists change, or my personal fav C) doesnt like the company.
yes it has come to this.. he who spends the most money on the newest and fastest stuff will win.... ah but the famed exception to that rule... a drivers skill.:lol::lol::lol:
to much :cry:ing and not enough of this:lol::nod:;)

who is complain as i see it we are dicussing the new speedos and which way the market is going

no need to lock it

+1 I read the whole thread and its a discussion.

the thread is fine ( for now :))

thanks Marcos J.

If you make a rule change deeming timing boost speed controls illegal, and you make it effective in say, 2011, you give the companies some time to develop something that can keep up.

In the mean time, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

We won the Banjo Bowl 55-10.
Nuff said. :ha:

Again...that doesn't work as was proven already in paintball. It is too easy to make an ESC with a legal race mode and additional profiles that are not legal and make it so it defaults back. Are you going to be the one who tells a noob that he can't race a certain ESC that has legal profiles just because it also has illegal profiles as well?

Turbo allows you to gear for the corners but still maintain the same top speed as those gearing for the straights. At the IIC I dropped 4 to 5 teeth on my pinion and still maintained the same top speed yet gained a ton of punch in the infield. Personally I'm not that good of a driver where it helped me get up into another main but I can see where it could have easily.

Here's the deal.

Where I'm at, the guy who normally TQs is on SP GT 2.0 ESC. The guy who wins the A Main is either on SPX or some other super high timing advanced esc. They are both equally skilled. But the added speed made the difference.

If we have to slow down these motors, we can always try sensorless stock right?

Oh my, just another thing for someone to pick on... there are needs to limit certain usage of certain items by why would you wanna limit technological development ?

If you were to limit items such as tyre additives that is harmful to health or some what so ever reason, now that's acceptable...

But if your gonna limit things like esc development? Wow imagine if such concept is implemented in the previous years, we wouldnt be using brushless systems would we?

Now battery manufacturers are pushing more and more capacity into batteries... instead of stopping manufacturers from developing and increasing the capacities, why not change the rules and make runtime longer? Too many participants = not being able to finish the event in time? Doesnt seem like a problem for nitro guys though with their 45mins final.

If we're talking about prototype esc being used at major events, isnt there already a rule saying only products available to mass consumer being allowed in major events?

The ESC used by CRC has been used by several swedish drivers for about a year, it's developed and manufatured by Chikara Advanced Electronics in Linköping, Sweden..

TBH I really don't see what the fuss is all about.

I am not (nor will I ever be) a team driver, but I still enjoy racing team drivers at my local club. I only ever race the clock... that's the only way I know if I am improving or not. Sure, it's nice to finish 1st (or 2nd, or one place higher than last time), but I only started in this hobby in Jan 2009 and I have a lot to learn. My lap times have halved in this time... now I am only taking 10ths or even 100ths of a second off my time each week.

If a team driver has a better chassis, or better electronics than me then they have earned the right to use these things. It's no different from other forms of motorsport where the independent racers have inferior equipment to the works teams. One day they will impress someone enough to be offered a works drive.

Just imagine how much more satisfying it would be to beat a team driver with your 3 year old ESC and motor :D


My 2p worth (about 3c in your money :lol: )

Daniel.

I brought a Tekin esc simply for the firmware updates in the long run saves buying a new esc every couple of months, and computer adjustable settings,its much easier to see what im setting it at then counting flashing lights.The on screen setup program i think is great for people just starting out, less user error in the short term setting something wrong and killing the esc.
If Tekin can do it why cant the others i know in the long run its going to be a money saver which in turn can only benefit the racer.:)

Good thing brushless has leveled the playing field, huh?

Anyways, everyone needs to get over it. There's always been prototype speed controls that you couldn't get.

But now with the perceived "equality" of brushless motors, it's become more obvious.

Just think this all started when someone realized that nickel cadmium cells had different characteristics, and if you put those together with similar "numbers" you would have a better pack.:rolleyes:

Look, this is racing. Everyone is going to look for whatever advantage they can find. That's just the way it is.

Interesting how this came about at a non-ROAR race.

where it happened does not matter. one this to think about with esc is that it is unlimited. all you guys are talking about is timing. there are much better and simpler ways to make a motor spin faster. a simple way is to look at the "booster" technology. take that and apply it to the main source of power for the esc. don't you think that a booster on the main power from 3.7 to say 7.4 would make the motor work "faster". you guys are thinking inside the box. think outside the box. then think about what this means to the speedo market for rc. ROAR and other sanctioning bodies will need to build a spec around esc and there will need to be a way to test it. if you though the motor of the week is expensive, think about what a new esc of the week will be. and also think about this. racing is racing. if does not matter if it is $100 or $1000 or $10000 for a speedo. someone will have on at an event and if it is a big enough event, then everyone will have one. no one want to go to a big event already looking at second.

remember cpu speed doubles every 3 years.

Cuffs: Remember when the transformation from Brushed to Brushless motors first started, I warned the R/C community that Brushless would come down to a battle of speed control technology, (black box technology was my catch phrase...ring a bell?!?) I must be Nostra-Putnam! :sneaky:

No sense in trying to form rules on something you can't tech.

As for what happened in Vegas, I didn't see any names in the win columns that shocked me, or that haven't been there before. :confused:

Although I have not run the speedo the CRC guys were using, I have run the Tekins with the 199 and 200 updates. They are flat out incredible units.

I applaud Tekin for stepping outside the box and offering customers a speedo that can be programmed and updated by simply purchasing of a $40 Hotwire Interface. Brilliant.

For not having to drop $150 - $200 every time the speed control companies learns how to improve their product is a great incentive to support Tekin. All the brushless speed control companies are on a learning curve, so we should expect improvenments - and frequently at that. Tekin has figured out how to keep the racers updated without going broke. Again, brilliant -

theisgroup- I believe that to be illegal already. Nothing which boosts the battery voltage is allowed. Plus it's easy to tech, unless someone figures out a way to disable such a feature for tech purposes.

Ah, you're just mad you're stuck with 10 thousand pair of F brushes!:lol:

Right now we're in the infancy of competitive brushless racing. We have all kinds of new stuff we can play with. Like anything else things will calm down and there won't be a speedo of the week.

that is external to the speedo. so what if it were internal? and what if it were similar technology to how the tekin determins when to "boost"

It would still be illegal. And like I said, easy to tech as long as it is always on. If it were made a hidden profile, then it would be a problem but you would never keep it secret. Sooner or later someone would blab and the speedo would be made illegal.

i just went through the ROAR rule book. I see nothing that would restrict a speed controller from doing this. there are rules that says the motor can not be powered by a secondary power source(rx pack) but nothing to say the speedo could not change the supplied power in anyway. I mean that is what a speedo does. it is a dc-dc convertor. what would make it different if it was a dc-dc step up convertor?

Well there are already "team only" everything...thats where all the testing is done. With that said I was at the IIC...I walked up to Randy Pike and introduced myself. We talked about the track layout and he programmed my ESC with a yet to be released software. However this was available to anyone who ran a Tekin and took the initiative to go talk to Randy. The support Tekin provides needs to be an example to other manufactures...which I think will make things better for everyone.

This was something that Randy did for whoever asked him. He felt it was needed to get the turbo to kick in at the desired spot on the straight. ;)

Thanks for the kind words Todd!

Anyone at the IIC racing had my FULL support. I gave ANYONE the lower timing delay that asked for it.

As an example though Mike Dumas was running .7 delay in his 13.5 car proving that chassis setup is CRITICAL to running fast.

Everyone here at Tekin will continue to strive to make the best performing speedo's on the market. Buying a Tekin gives you access to the updates needed to keep you competitive...nuff said.

This would only work in classes that have a lot of extra battery capacity. If you raise the voltage you will use more current since the watts expended will be the same or greater depending on effiency. So for the faster classes they will need more battery capacity to make it happen.

The other way to catch this type of cheating is to check straight away speeds. When a guy turning slow laps is way faster down the straight, check his equipment. I know this has been done in full sized road racing and has caught a few cheaters. Funny when a 10th place guys is faster than 1st. The true top racers wont be going to something that blatant as they are usually pretty close in speed.

John

... And this is exactly what was happening in 1/12 Stock (17.5), 1/12 SuperStock (13.5), and World GT 13.5 for the cars with this new speedo.

These cars were amazingly fast, ripping out of the corners, and then gaining 10-20 feet on just about anyone down the straight. Fortunately, a few of the drivers were not that good or consistent enough to get a huge overall race advantage with the extra power.

Great for the customer, bad for the manufacturer. Where will their future sales come if no one is buying their speedos? Really, it's only the buying cycle that is lengthened cause customers always need a new speedo every X years. Is the updated software free or is there a cost?

The thing everyone of you guys miss
is...


The beginner racer ....:nod:

He's has to deal with all of this and my money is on the fact that all the new blood on-road has destroy will continue to dry up ...


Beginner's are't gona pay for it if they can't be competitive....

Stock ? Spec ?


Gona die ....


Long live the Mod class's.....

Its pretty simple. If the new guy coming in wants to be competitive off the ball, I will point him in the direction of the RS or RS Pro for the 21.5, 17.5, 13.5 and 10.5 classes. If they are serious, they will do the investigation on their own and discover what is fast and what is last. They will purchase accordingly. Then they can work on their setup, driving ability and concentrate on having fun. Yes the RS is $70 (maybe a little more or less)more than the $99 Havoc 3S, but I'd spend that on the Advil for the headaches I'd get trying to explain why the Havoc will never beat the RS unless he has absolutely no talent to drive an RC car. It is $99 saved by going this route and much less frustration and disappointment as the driver then cannot blame his gear. Most of these guys will not even need to buy a Hotwire as there are always racers ready to hook a new racer up with the latest firmware. Some classes like VTA, should run with turbo disabled, but that's another long story about an intentionally slow class that's going too fast... The other mfgs will fall in line soon enough. Most already have a version similar or available as others have brought up previously.

17.5 sportsman had a great turn out and It was nice to see IIC classify 17.5 sedan as a Sportsman/Amatuer class....

All the proto stuff if you can call a profile proto was in the expert 13.5 ....

The only way to effectively tech ESC's would be to open them out of the box and hand them out at a race. With that being said, what does an Electronic Speed Control do? It controls the speed of the motor. Sounds like someone built a better mouse trap. Which means, others will improve or fade off into the sunset. It is called racing, not practice or bashing.


LRP had a grip on performance for a while. Tekin is now right there. This was bound to happen. The ESC is second only the tires in importance. If you have a ton of power but can't put it down it won't do you any good.

you are spot on:nod: but doesnt your racing organization roar say it has to be available to public or no? do the iic use roar rules?

I dont know if its true or not but i heard the speedo in question won 17.5 and 13.5 at the IIC. Any confirmation on that?