R/C Tech Live @ the 2003 US Indoor Championsions in Cleveland, OH
12-02-2003, 12:19 PM
#391
Wow, Controversy!!! Nobody has anything positive to say!! Oh well, here comes my opinion on the weekend, straight from the scoring tower.
1. Qualifying was, as previously stated, BRUTAL!!! It was less a result of hacking, and more a result of the FANTASTIC track layout. Thank You Terry Rott and Crew!!!!!!!
2. The Good Stuff. A Lo's win in stock TC was great, Congratulations Alex!! The Mod 12th scale main was a great race, in spite of all the controversy. EIther way you go, Jonny or Dave, you still end up with a true champion....... What More can you say about my man Mike Blackstock? I told you weeks ago he would deliver the Mod TC W and he did. Masters 12th Scale..... Franky just kept on sayin' "5 for me in 2003", so I guess he willed it to happen. Masters TC, VanWag drove a great race, but Ezrow got screwed. It would been great to see those two go at it for the full 5 mins. Then you have the stock 1/12th main, words cannot express how well Dayger, my man MO, and MRS. Blackstock wheeled for that eight mins. It was the MOST EXCITING RACE I've ever had the privelege of calling and I thank all three of them for that.
3. Props. I wanna thank Mr. Bill, Tony Williams, and the rest of the Champs crew for including me in their ELITE group. I wanna thank Mike Smith, and the incomparble Johnny V!! for keeping me covered when it was my turn to take to the track, or work on my wagons.
4. Mad Props. I also need to thank Tony Carrubba for the Swords of Voltage he bestowed upon me POWER PUSH RULES!!!!, Mo Denton for the IMMENSE RIP!! GOT MO??? And of course, Beavis and Bruce Carbone for keeping my Rev.3 one full step ahead of my driving ability all weekend long!!!!!! SPEEDMERCHANT!!
1. Qualifying was, as previously stated, BRUTAL!!! It was less a result of hacking, and more a result of the FANTASTIC track layout. Thank You Terry Rott and Crew!!!!!!!
2. The Good Stuff. A Lo's win in stock TC was great, Congratulations Alex!! The Mod 12th scale main was a great race, in spite of all the controversy. EIther way you go, Jonny or Dave, you still end up with a true champion....... What More can you say about my man Mike Blackstock? I told you weeks ago he would deliver the Mod TC W and he did. Masters 12th Scale..... Franky just kept on sayin' "5 for me in 2003", so I guess he willed it to happen. Masters TC, VanWag drove a great race, but Ezrow got screwed. It would been great to see those two go at it for the full 5 mins. Then you have the stock 1/12th main, words cannot express how well Dayger, my man MO, and MRS. Blackstock wheeled for that eight mins. It was the MOST EXCITING RACE I've ever had the privelege of calling and I thank all three of them for that.
3. Props. I wanna thank Mr. Bill, Tony Williams, and the rest of the Champs crew for including me in their ELITE group. I wanna thank Mike Smith, and the incomparble Johnny V!! for keeping me covered when it was my turn to take to the track, or work on my wagons.
4. Mad Props. I also need to thank Tony Carrubba for the Swords of Voltage he bestowed upon me POWER PUSH RULES!!!!, Mo Denton for the IMMENSE RIP!! GOT MO??? And of course, Beavis and Bruce Carbone for keeping my Rev.3 one full step ahead of my driving ability all weekend long!!!!!! SPEEDMERCHANT!!
12-02-2003, 12:33 PM
#393
Tech Adept
Am I missing something in that photo? I can't see any finish line. I can't even see any two cars even close to each other at any point in the photo...
Aside from all that... I thought I heard someone say that neither of the competitors involved had any problems with the way the finnal ruling came out... So then why the controversy?
Aside from all that... I thought I heard someone say that neither of the competitors involved had any problems with the way the finnal ruling came out... So then why the controversy?
12-02-2003, 12:34 PM
#394
Tech Adept
It's not a ROAR event... so if your refering to the tripple main thing in ROAR national racing... it doesn't apply.
12-02-2003, 12:35 PM
#396
Tech Addict
iTrader: (3)
Originally posted by PorscheSuperCup
this may be a silly question, but why wouldnt you run triple A mains in a National event?
this may be a silly question, but why wouldnt you run triple A mains in a National event?
12-02-2003, 12:55 PM
#398
Originally posted by Frank McKinney
That there's one reason why I don't think I've ever missed anything by not going to Cleveland...old equipment, single race mains and controversy every year.
I just watched the frame by frame video again - no matter where the finish line or loop is, David was ahead of John for at least 10-15 feet before the curved section of board (presumably where the checkered tape was).
People I know that were at the race saw video camera owners showing the race "officials" the tapes they'd JUST made and David was still not declared the winner. With this much of a huge controversy still 2 days after the race, there's no more "saving face" for the officials.
Lame!
That there's one reason why I don't think I've ever missed anything by not going to Cleveland...old equipment, single race mains and controversy every year.
I just watched the frame by frame video again - no matter where the finish line or loop is, David was ahead of John for at least 10-15 feet before the curved section of board (presumably where the checkered tape was).
People I know that were at the race saw video camera owners showing the race "officials" the tapes they'd JUST made and David was still not declared the winner. With this much of a huge controversy still 2 days after the race, there's no more "saving face" for the officials.
Lame!
And as far as the scoring system is concerned, the system is used for one primary reason. RELIABILITY! I have used many other systems in my day, all have they're perks and quirks, but that system is virtually flawless. When you're running a race with 510 entries you wanna make sure the system runs smoothly.
12-02-2003, 01:00 PM
#399
Originally posted by rayhuang
Cypress-thanks to you for some of the best called qualifiers and races of the weekend.
And you wheeled your Xray and Speedmerchants VERY well. Also thaks for running the late night practice round!!!
Cypress-thanks to you for some of the best called qualifiers and races of the weekend.
And you wheeled your Xray and Speedmerchants VERY well. Also thaks for running the late night practice round!!!
12-02-2003, 01:00 PM
#400
Tech Adept
If anyone else is having issues with downloading and playing my video of the ending ( not a great angle, but if you look closely at the slow mo I thik you can tell who is in front of who) Just right click it...... then, save target as..... then, use windows media player... people have emaield me and told me that works for them.
Sorry for those having issues.
Sorry for those having issues.
12-02-2003, 01:03 PM
#401
You can eliminate controversy by defining a start finish line viewable by everyone including participants. Declare in advance that the car that crosses the finish line first is the winner (regardless of timing). Then videotape the defined line to determine who crosses first.
12-02-2003, 01:10 PM
#402
Originally posted by Rick Hohwart
You can eliminate controversy by defining a start finish line viewable by everyone including participants. Declare in advance that the car that crosses the finish line first is the winner (regardless of timing). Then videotape the defined line to determine who crosses first.
You can eliminate controversy by defining a start finish line viewable by everyone including participants. Declare in advance that the car that crosses the finish line first is the winner (regardless of timing). Then videotape the defined line to determine who crosses first.
12-02-2003, 02:18 PM
#403
Re: Great info!!!
Originally posted by rayhuang
Heres some great info from Hank over at Hobbytalk.
The power output of the transponder makes no difference. What happens when you cross the loop is the time is recorded when the transponder is first picked up. The "counts" of the transponder are recorded as it passes over the loop. The counts are then devided in half and added to the time when the first count is recorded. This way the center of the detection is found which is where the start/finish line should be (in the middle of the loop.
As an example:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.500 seconds. The count is 68. Half of 68 is 34 so .034 is added to 27.500 to get you a lap time of 27.534
The same lap with a weaker transponder:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.522 seconds. The start time will later because the transponder is weaker and the detection starts later in the loop. The count is 24 (again because the signal is weaker). Half of 24 is 12 so .012 is added to 27.522 to get you a lap time of 27.534
This is the same system that is used in F1, NASCAR and Kart racing and has been proven to be very accurate. All other transponder type timing systems use the same method and I'd go so far as to say it is an international standard.
Heres some great info from Hank over at Hobbytalk.
The power output of the transponder makes no difference. What happens when you cross the loop is the time is recorded when the transponder is first picked up. The "counts" of the transponder are recorded as it passes over the loop. The counts are then devided in half and added to the time when the first count is recorded. This way the center of the detection is found which is where the start/finish line should be (in the middle of the loop.
As an example:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.500 seconds. The count is 68. Half of 68 is 34 so .034 is added to 27.500 to get you a lap time of 27.534
The same lap with a weaker transponder:
Each count (as an example) is spaced .001 second apart. The car starts picking up at 27.522 seconds. The start time will later because the transponder is weaker and the detection starts later in the loop. The count is 24 (again because the signal is weaker). Half of 24 is 12 so .012 is added to 27.522 to get you a lap time of 27.534
This is the same system that is used in F1, NASCAR and Kart racing and has been proven to be very accurate. All other transponder type timing systems use the same method and I'd go so far as to say it is an international standard.
I would trust a transponder over a person subjective opinion any day. If you rely on video there is way more room for error than with a electronic device. I looked at the video and Orr was ahead for a bit, and since I can tell where the loop is it's hard to say where Spash passed.
Orr wins!
12-02-2003, 02:19 PM
#404
R/C Tech Founder
Thread Starter
Originally posted by DynoMoHum
Am I missing something in that photo? I can't see any finish line. I can't even see any two cars even close to each other at any point in the photo...
Am I missing something in that photo? I can't see any finish line. I can't even see any two cars even close to each other at any point in the photo...
12-02-2003, 02:59 PM
#405
Originally posted by CypressMidWest
Wow, Frank. I think triple A-mains kill the tension of any major race. They just make the whole thing an ordeal for the drivers and the race officials, and you're even more likely to end up with controversy. See last year's carpet Oval Nats for an example. 19 turn class Talbot, Domark and Ezrow, and what was it, weeks later when the decision was made? Please, Triple A-mains only complicate the issue.
Wow, Frank. I think triple A-mains kill the tension of any major race. They just make the whole thing an ordeal for the drivers and the race officials, and you're even more likely to end up with controversy. See last year's carpet Oval Nats for an example. 19 turn class Talbot, Domark and Ezrow, and what was it, weeks later when the decision was made? Please, Triple A-mains only complicate the issue.
But...people put up with it so there you go.
And as far as the scoring system is concerned, the system is used for one primary reason. RELIABILITY! I have used many other systems in my day, all have they're perks and quirks, but that system is virtually flawless.
When you're running a race with 510 entries you wanna make sure the system runs smoothly.
When there's a big scoring controversy at the end of the weekend and the officials are tired and may not want to deal with reviewing race footage or listening to protests, there's a problem.
Of course, this is all "just my opinion". Obviously there are 510 entries so there are enough people that put up with the problems and come back year after year. However, I think a race that is in its 15th or 20th year of running should improve year after year, not have the same problems year after year.
None of this is meant to bag on you (I'm guessing you were the announcer), unless, of course, you were one of the race officials
I'm sure you did your part to run the races as smoothly as possible. But every race and race series could be improved. Hopefully next year Cleveland will be.
Last edited by Frank McKinney; 12-02-2003 at 03:09 PM.