143LikesAwesomatix EP Touring Car (A700 Shaft Drive)
12-15-2011, 09:28 PM
#1112
So, whilst I wait for mine to arrive (yes, cat's out the bag), I've been going over the shock settings some more.
From the manual this is what I need to have confirmed a bit.
Shortening the A length softens both the spring and damping rate, whilst shortening B increases the spring rate only.
So, to alter the damping rate only, you need to adjust A to the damping level required, then readjust B to get the spring rate. Is this correct?
(obviously, thats assume enough adjustment is left, and combining with SRS setting I and II
)
Also, whats the general feeling on the roll bars? I'm seeing a lot of setups flat out not using them, is it simply a case of the car just doesn't require them?
Oh, and another thing... I've seen some setups are using un-equal length upper arms. By that I mean, the inner ball joint holes don't line up (front ball joint is closer to the centre than rear, for example). Surely this would have an effect on how camber changes (a bit like lower arm sweep on other cars). Anyone played with this much?
Still, see a lot of interesting times ahead getting it dialled in, going to need to re-read through this thread I think!
Ed
From the manual this is what I need to have confirmed a bit.
Shortening the A length softens both the spring and damping rate, whilst shortening B increases the spring rate only.
So, to alter the damping rate only, you need to adjust A to the damping level required, then readjust B to get the spring rate. Is this correct?
(obviously, thats assume enough adjustment is left, and combining with SRS setting I and II
)Also, whats the general feeling on the roll bars? I'm seeing a lot of setups flat out not using them, is it simply a case of the car just doesn't require them?
Oh, and another thing... I've seen some setups are using un-equal length upper arms. By that I mean, the inner ball joint holes don't line up (front ball joint is closer to the centre than rear, for example). Surely this would have an effect on how camber changes (a bit like lower arm sweep on other cars). Anyone played with this much?
Still, see a lot of interesting times ahead getting it dialled in, going to need to re-read through this thread I think!
Ed
Last edited by TryHard; 12-15-2011 at 09:47 PM.
12-16-2011, 02:41 AM
#1113
including shipping?
in the 818 us$ price tag.. is the shipping included??
12-16-2011, 03:29 AM
#1114
Tech Regular
12-16-2011, 03:29 AM
#1115
Just a shout to all the people using heatshrink and O rings on the suspension, something which I think is unnecessary..Most A700 owners are accomplished racers, perhaps you guys already tried this but..
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
Last edited by hana166; 12-16-2011 at 03:40 AM.
12-16-2011, 03:31 AM
#1116
I gave up in understanding the suspension as it just gives me a headache.
only ran the car once on a clubby which it tqed and won so something is working right.
12-16-2011, 04:59 AM
#1117
Tech Fanatic
Some race results of A700 from Denmark and Germany:
http://www.powered-rc-cars.com/tag/german/page/2/
http://www.odw-raceway.de/2011/12/12...e-rennbericht/
http://www.powered-rc-cars.com/tag/german/page/2/
http://www.odw-raceway.de/2011/12/12...e-rennbericht/
12-16-2011, 05:01 AM
#1118
12-16-2011, 06:47 AM
#1119
massive spares lot and HTC smartphone to offset the cost but...well when the kit arrives you'll think it was cheap
12-16-2011, 07:05 AM
#1120
Just a shout to all the people using heatshrink and O rings on the suspension, something which I think is unnecessary..Most A700 owners are accomplished racers, perhaps you guys already tried this but..
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
I had my first race with the car last weekend and was very impressed, did not get the perfect result i would hope for, but thats mainly my bad driving at times
Didnt break anything on the car or any signs of wear, apart from i lost the Roll bar mounting. Hoping to get back out with the car tomorrow for another test.
12-16-2011, 07:10 AM
#1121
[QUOTE=hana166;10045090]Just a shout to all the people using heatshrink and O rings on the suspension, something which I think is unnecessary..Most A700 owners are accomplished racers, perhaps you guys already tried this but..
Hey Hana166
I didn't needs to O ring on mine...like Oleg said... it is not necessary..the droops and ride height and the balance of the car is important...I didn't used the weight scale ...
Hey Hana166
I didn't needs to O ring on mine...like Oleg said... it is not necessary..the droops and ride height and the balance of the car is important...I didn't used the weight scale ...
12-16-2011, 08:26 AM
#1122
Just a shout to all the people using heatshrink and O rings on the suspension, something which I think is unnecessary..Most A700 owners are accomplished racers, perhaps you guys already tried this but..
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
Would you be able to share with us how you've set and measured the L-R weight to within 2g? My car is corner balanced where the corner weights of the Driver/Front + Passenger/Rear is roughly the same as the corner weights of the Passenger/Front + Driver/Rear. BTW the only way you can do this is with scales. With my spring preload set to achieve the corner balance, my ride height on all four corners are not within or less then then the .2mm tolerance. I'm seeing a difference in the range of .4mm - .8mm. Apparently my overall weight balance is not as close as your setup.
Personally, I'd much rather prefer that my corner balance is equal, ride height is within .4 - .8mm tolerance, and droop is set accurately vs. being concerned over any ill affects of using the O-rings.
12-16-2011, 11:50 AM
#1123
I made my own spikes in my lathe. They are really sharp and go into the central allen bolts in most TC's, with a locating lip. If you are out 5g it won't balance at all. I use scales for F-R distribution. Most chassis seem accurately drilled enough to do it this way
Last edited by hana166; 12-16-2011 at 12:49 PM.
12-16-2011, 05:38 PM
#1124
Just a shout to all the people using heatshrink and O rings on the suspension, something which I think is unnecessary..Most A700 owners are accomplished racers, perhaps you guys already tried this but..
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
I mentioned before that the slop is due to insufficient spring preload, which is self evident. Many have found that the slop occurs at opposite corners which is a logical finding. This is what I do..
Get the suspension super free first, and balance the car L-R to within 2g. Remove the bumper assembly. Get a fine ride height gauge 0.2mm increments.
When I first built the car I had slop in opposite corners but the car was equal in ride height in all 4 corners. I noticed that the spring preload/ride height screws were not at the same height. The corners with the slop had the screw higher, obviously, so the opposite corners which had no slop had more preload and were holding the car up, but level, in opposite corners (meaning that less preload is needed on the other springs, hence the slop)
So I matched the heights of the preload screws L-R, just by eye, and the car was still dead level, but the preloads were equal, which eliminated the slop but also with the added bonus of equalising the spring tensions L-R across the car
The beauty of the system is that without coil springs, spring collars and shock towers that are almost never perfectly horizontal, things which add error in setting up a conventional car, you can reliably use the height of the preload screws to get the car in balance assuming that the tolerances of the springs are close enough and the car is balanced overall L-R, and of course, the screws themselves are equal in length.
I know I haven't mentioned corner weights but I found that spring preload has a large effect on the values when using four digital scales, and its the preloads themselves that I'm trying to balance, not using the preloads to balance the corner weights. So I never use 4 scales. Maybe its not the ultimate method but I found the car extremely consistent and balanced by doing it this way.
I actually found it vastly easier to set than a conventional car
12-16-2011, 05:44 PM
#1125
I have talked with Oleg about this and he said not to go by the height of the screw as the tolerances of the screw itself are not good enough to go by. Best to use a tweak station and ride height on each corner to measure. This will result in more slop on one side than the other most of the time but still nothing to worry about.