The future of 1/12 scale
12-18-2008, 11:22 PM
#706
I found this gem rummaging through the old stuff at my local hobby store. I think its made by Andy's RC which I don't think is no longer in business. I did research what kind a car it is and found out it was a Sauber Mercedes. One of the greatest group c cars of its time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7cURqB8p0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hC7cURqB8p0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow3rxq7U1mA
12-19-2008, 12:21 AM
#707
Tech Master
Hi Steve, should get back around the middle of January if all goes well. We'll see about that though! I am hoping to get at least a couple of rounds in before leaving for the states in March! Still only have my trusty 9x2's and will have to get a couple of new packs. Fred said the racing has been getting really good with some of the top guys having a couple of 'off' days whilst some of the other guys are starting to fly! If you have a spare brushless setup I could borrow for a meeting or 2, that would be nice.........
12-19-2008, 08:56 AM
#709
XRAY XII 1/12 PAN CAR
arrived la !
arrived la !
12-19-2008, 09:01 AM
#710
Too bad its just a coopy of a 12l4, i was looking forward to something comepletly unique.
12-19-2008, 09:03 AM
#711
Look! An over priced 12L4. Now they copy Associated?
12-19-2008, 09:12 AM
#712
12-19-2008, 01:51 PM
#713
Tech Regular
Slowing the 17.5 to the speed of a spec class would be great. It gives new racers a place to drive without having to run with sponsored racers that belong in a faster class. Many new racers quit racing because of what stock has become (a fast class with 100% sponsored racers).
13.5 is a good speed for single cell and it's about the same speed as 17.5 4 cell. Stock has a ton of very talanted racers that can run this class without hurting the stock class.
All of the guys that don't want to run at todays stock speeds can simply run mod. They obviously want a faster class so it's simple. Just run mod.
Slowing stock would bring back one important part of the old days. Winning a stock race in the late 80's and early 90's ment nothing. All it ment was that you were ready for a faster class (mod) and maybe some sponsors. Now, you have some pretty big names running stock.
12-19-2008, 02:16 PM
#714
Tech Master
iTrader: (16)
That's because we have fewer racers today running 1/12 than in the past, some of the good experienced racers have no choice but to run stock.
12-19-2008, 02:48 PM
#715
Tech Master
I thought that the idea of 'stock' racing was to keep the costs down whilst still racing in a competitive class. Well, from what I have seen, it's anything but that. Guys were going out and buying new cells regulary (to keep maximum voltage) plus the motors were broken down, coms skimmed, cans zapped and new brushes EVERY RUN! How's that keeping the costs down?! In fact, it costs more to run competitivily in stock than it does mod!!
12-19-2008, 04:04 PM
#716
Tech Fanatic
iTrader: (23)
Slowing stock would bring back one important part of the old days. Winning a stock race in the late 80's and early 90's ment nothing. All it ment was that you were ready for a faster class (mod) and maybe some sponsors. Now, you have some pretty big names running stock.
Not sure I agree with that statement. Late 80's and early 90's had a huge number of entries at the big races and the top ten would be within 2-3 seconds where as now you'll see a lap or more difference. 360 racers divided in two classes meant that you had to be really good to make the "A" let alone win. There were probably 20-30 that could win on any given day. Now you're lucky to get 30 entries in mod. The depth of talent back then was a lot bigger just because of the shear number of racers compared to today.
12-19-2008, 07:49 PM
#717
Not sure I agree with that statement. Late 80's and early 90's had a huge number of entries at the big races and the top ten would be within 2-3 seconds where as now you'll see a lap or more difference. 360 racers divided in two classes meant that you had to be really good to make the "A" let alone win. There were probably 20-30 that could win on any given day. Now you're lucky to get 30 entries in mod. The depth of talent back then was a lot bigger just because of the shear number of racers compared to today.
12-19-2008, 11:32 PM
#718
Some things to think about
Hi,
thought I'd chime in from the past (even pre-electric, 1/12th with a cox .049 engine back when I started) and now I'm back into racing. Having a blast too. I have spent many hours reading about the lipo ideas for 1/12. I race in Seattle and saw Brian's 380 motor experiment, I was glad to see him do it, I had already purchased a Tekin 1/18 rage system and was just starting to put it together, when he ran his. It was really fast, and probably is the future with some adjustments to keep it sane. A smaller motor like that will help in a re-design of the rear end of 1/12th cars that will be able to take place, all for the good, but maybe just not a good idea quite yet. When sensored systems for these motors get sorted out, it will be probably the way to go. Its logical since they have enough power for 1/12 cars and the lighter weight and size will allow for much better designs to arise.
For now, I am going to play with a single cell 13.5 motor set-up. An adjustment in weight to get the single cell lipo car close to what a 4-cell car does in lap times will be possible to make it a good way to work towards a final solution, while still allowing us to keep racing.
FUN 
Seeing those pictures of the Mercedes body made me wonder what it would be like to move back towards bodies that are a little more to accurate to their 1/1 counter part. Might actually bring the differences between the lipo and 4-cell cars closer together. Since driving skill and set-up usually plays a part no matter what, that may mean that having another factor like a less forgiving body may make a poor set-up show-up even more for some. hmmm. All I know is an accurate replica would look good, require a little more set-up and driving skill, and you would think that it will be fast enough to be fun to drive, challenging enough for all to enjoy. I am a former professional 1/24 slot racer that ran basically an aerodynamic wedge to keep the cars going at some pretty insane speeds in the open class, and also raced many scale class races as well, so, I have been on both sides of this. I have equal amounts of great memories from both, but the best have always been a head to head battle of skill at any speed.
As for the motors and batteries, I realize that large sanctioned events need to keep the rules from fluctuating too much, so, there is a question of how to deal with whether there can be parity running similar speed lipo vs 4-cell classes together, all of us running in our clubs and experimenting will help to sort this out. Maybe the weight system will be all that is needed, maybe not. The booster/receiver pack is also an issue needs to be delt with as well. I'm sure that can be figured out. I am playing with a booster, its doable, and might be enough to keep that part simple.
Having to provide for too many classes can dilute racing to a point that causes decay in overall racing, so, it makes sense to not to make too many new classes that are separate for lipo cars. Working toward a mixed solution makes sense.
I am really happy to see all this talk going on, it will help towards a well thought about direction to head towards. I should throw out there that the scale cars are holding together what little that is left of slot racing. This is true in HO scale slots as well. They are still pushing envelopes with car designs, but at with some realistic rules to adhere to and guess what, racing is fun and on an up-swing again. Actually, this is happening in 1/1 F-1 too. Notice how close their racing has gotten lately? Anyone else see a trend happening, might be a good reason to follow down this kind of path.
Some things to think about.
-Alex
thought I'd chime in from the past (even pre-electric, 1/12th with a cox .049 engine back when I started) and now I'm back into racing. Having a blast too. I have spent many hours reading about the lipo ideas for 1/12. I race in Seattle and saw Brian's 380 motor experiment, I was glad to see him do it, I had already purchased a Tekin 1/18 rage system and was just starting to put it together, when he ran his. It was really fast, and probably is the future with some adjustments to keep it sane. A smaller motor like that will help in a re-design of the rear end of 1/12th cars that will be able to take place, all for the good, but maybe just not a good idea quite yet. When sensored systems for these motors get sorted out, it will be probably the way to go. Its logical since they have enough power for 1/12 cars and the lighter weight and size will allow for much better designs to arise.
For now, I am going to play with a single cell 13.5 motor set-up. An adjustment in weight to get the single cell lipo car close to what a 4-cell car does in lap times will be possible to make it a good way to work towards a final solution, while still allowing us to keep racing.
FUN Seeing those pictures of the Mercedes body made me wonder what it would be like to move back towards bodies that are a little more to accurate to their 1/1 counter part. Might actually bring the differences between the lipo and 4-cell cars closer together. Since driving skill and set-up usually plays a part no matter what, that may mean that having another factor like a less forgiving body may make a poor set-up show-up even more for some. hmmm. All I know is an accurate replica would look good, require a little more set-up and driving skill, and you would think that it will be fast enough to be fun to drive, challenging enough for all to enjoy. I am a former professional 1/24 slot racer that ran basically an aerodynamic wedge to keep the cars going at some pretty insane speeds in the open class, and also raced many scale class races as well, so, I have been on both sides of this. I have equal amounts of great memories from both, but the best have always been a head to head battle of skill at any speed.
As for the motors and batteries, I realize that large sanctioned events need to keep the rules from fluctuating too much, so, there is a question of how to deal with whether there can be parity running similar speed lipo vs 4-cell classes together, all of us running in our clubs and experimenting will help to sort this out. Maybe the weight system will be all that is needed, maybe not. The booster/receiver pack is also an issue needs to be delt with as well. I'm sure that can be figured out. I am playing with a booster, its doable, and might be enough to keep that part simple.
Having to provide for too many classes can dilute racing to a point that causes decay in overall racing, so, it makes sense to not to make too many new classes that are separate for lipo cars. Working toward a mixed solution makes sense.
I am really happy to see all this talk going on, it will help towards a well thought about direction to head towards. I should throw out there that the scale cars are holding together what little that is left of slot racing. This is true in HO scale slots as well. They are still pushing envelopes with car designs, but at with some realistic rules to adhere to and guess what, racing is fun and on an up-swing again. Actually, this is happening in 1/1 F-1 too. Notice how close their racing has gotten lately? Anyone else see a trend happening, might be a good reason to follow down this kind of path.
Some things to think about.
-Alex
12-20-2008, 05:27 AM
#719
I thought that the idea of 'stock' racing was to keep the costs down whilst still racing in a competitive class. Well, from what I have seen, it's anything but that. Guys were going out and buying new cells regulary (to keep maximum voltage) plus the motors were broken down, coms skimmed, cans zapped and new brushes EVERY RUN! How's that keeping the costs down?! In fact, it costs more to run competitivily in stock than it does mod!!
12-20-2008, 07:53 AM
#720
At our shop (www.360rcspeedway.com) we run 13.5 motors with the new SMC 3.7vt lipo in the stock class with the 4 cell 17.5 guys and really dont see much of a difference in overall performance. Which IMO is a good thing. The cars are just as fast...overall laptime wise and being that they are brushless and lipo there is very little maintenance other then the normal wear and tear of tires and chassis upkeep. At our facility this is already helping 1/12th scale, for this class to continue to grow someone needs to come out with a 3.7vt saddle pack or design a chassis for the t-bar cars that will have the battery on one side and the rest of the electronics on the other side. Kinda like most of todays touring cars. Most of us have seen the light of lipo/brushless in the TC market, if we continue this trend to 12th scale it will only help this class as well. Thanks for reading....