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-   -   Tamiya TB-03 (https://www.rctech.net/forum/electric-road/222181-tamiya-tb-03-a.html)

yobouno 07-29-2012 04:22 PM


Originally Posted by stocker (Post 11002328)
Hiya, am considering getting a runner for bashing/racing on dusty asphalt so I think sealed gearbox is a must. The TB-03 looks like a good candidate but I can't seem to find the TB-03R or TB-03D as I do not need a body and I think the R is better value? Also any news of a "TB-04" as the TB-03 is over 3 years old?

Thanks for any advice! :)

TB03R and TB03D are special edition, they only manufacture X number of them, if they run out, then that's that... sometimes however they do reproduce, you do need to have to look really hard... Have you tried ebay, I think there may be still some from Hong Kong.

As for the car, they give you some hop up. Not necessary that it's better, but it does make the car looks better.

BTW, I've got a TB03R NIB for sale. PM me if you're interested.

yobouno 07-29-2012 04:29 PM

Setup Help.

Can someone help me with my TB-03 setup? I'm running it for VTA (Vintage Trans-Am) class with controlled tyres, bodies and speedy.

My car seems to drift when it enters the corner. Or oversteer if I punch in to early and end up with a spin. Please don't advise tyres because there is only one type of tyres you can run on VTA.

My current setup
Front camber :+1'
Front toe : +2'
Rear camber : +2'
Rear toe: +2'

Installed one way front, and R-Spec Oil Filled gear diff. Using 3Racing Graphite chassis.

mtaddei 07-30-2012 12:42 AM


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11030956)
Setup Help.

Can someone help me with my TB-03 setup? I'm running it for VTA (Vintage Trans-Am) class with controlled tyres, bodies and speedy.

My car seems to drift when it enters the corner. Or oversteer if I punch in to early and end up with a spin. Please don't advise tyres because there is only one type of tyres you can run on VTA.

My current setup
Front camber :+1'
Front toe : +2'
Rear camber : +2'
Rear toe: +2'

Installed one way front, and R-Spec Oil Filled gear diff. Using 3Racing Graphite chassis.

Ciao Yobouno,

first of all try with front solid axel or diff, then are you using push road front damper, or not?, if you are using push road did you shim the lever with 2/3 mm the front end?

Ciao
Max

yobouno 07-31-2012 08:01 PM


Originally Posted by mtaddei (Post 11032378)
Ciao Yobouno,

first of all try with front solid axel or diff, then are you using push road front damper, or not?, if you are using push road did you shim the lever with 2/3 mm the front end?

Ciao
Max

Hi Max,

Thanks for the diff advise...

what do you mean by push road damper?

I'm using Tamiya TRF damper with IFS setup.

ciao

stocker 08-05-2012 06:53 PM

Hi, does anyone have any experience using the spec-R gear diff with a 13.5T on low traction asphalt? Will be upgrading to alloy outdrives and spur holder and am considering switching to gear diff as well but just unsure about it's reliability. Or should I just stick to a upgraded ball diff using ceremic balls and TRF502 gear?

TenzoR 08-05-2012 07:29 PM


Originally Posted by stocker (Post 11059108)
Hi, does anyone have any experience using the spec-R gear diff with a 13.5T on low traction asphalt? Will be upgrading to allow outdrives and am considering it but just unsure about it's reliability. Or should I just stick to a upgraded ball diff using ceremic balls and TRF502 gear?

I have been using mine for a while but with 17.5 on high traction carpet and asphalt. I'm a clumsy driver. The outdrive is still in good shape. However, I recall the outdrive surface is a bit rough. I had to polish it so it didn't eat the plastic blade. No leaks at all using lightweight oil (70wt shock oil) and 300k wt.

stocker 08-06-2012 07:37 PM

Thanks! Guess i should be ok if I just run blinky 13.5. Guess for low traction, i should be using even thinner oils?


Originally Posted by TenzoR (Post 11059254)
I have been using mine for a while but with 17.5 on high traction carpet and asphalt. I'm a clumsy driver. The outdrive is still in good shape. However, I recall the outdrive surface is a bit rough. I had to polish it so it didn't eat the plastic blade. No leaks at all using lightweight oil (70wt shock oil) and 300k wt.


mtaddei 08-07-2012 03:19 AM


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11040506)
Hi Max,

Thanks for the diff advise...

what do you mean by push road damper?

I'm using Tamiya TRF damper with IFS setup.

ciao

CIao yobouno,
this evening i'll check in my garage if i still have a setup sheet, pls send me your email via pm.

Ciao
Max

TB03Racer09 08-15-2012 04:30 AM

are the trf502x diff gears better than the tb evo V ones? what are the differences as I am going to order some extra diff gears but Don't know which one to get

altimeters 08-17-2012 12:50 PM

Hey guys,

Any of you have DIY images on how to fit yokomos FCD's on TBevo5's? Active hobby ones are crap.

Any info/images would help. Thanks!

stocker 08-28-2012 08:26 PM

Does anyone know if the TRF416 diff screw and nut (#51341) fit the alum outdrives? Thanks!

stocker 08-28-2012 08:27 PM


Originally Posted by TB03Racer09 (Post 11095517)
are the trf502x diff gears better than the tb evo V ones? what are the differences as I am going to order some extra diff gears but Don't know which one to get

They have 12 balls vs the 9 on the stock unit, but uses smaller balls. Logically it should be better. I used the 502x unit from the start and it's smooth and does not slip yet can be quite loose. :)

yobouno 08-29-2012 12:15 AM


Originally Posted by stocker (Post 11148375)
Does anyone know if the TRF416 diff screw and nut (#51341) fit the alum outdrives? Thanks!

Are you looking for the screws for the diff? Ball diff screws are 2 x 25mm. Here's the part number #49350 comes with nut.

As for the plastic parts I'd just get the A tree parts #51351. A5 and the gear cover always comes in handy since that's the parts we unscrew the most and they do have a habit of losing their threads. As for A5, they do get broken occasionally, nice to have spares available.

stocker 08-29-2012 03:24 AM

Actually i wanted to use the 416 screw and nut for easy adjustment of the ball diff instead of having to remove the drive shaft. And the 416 nut is integrated into what is the plastic nut holder in the TB03 kit which looks stronger.



Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11148845)
Are you looking for the screws for the diff? Ball diff screws are 2 x 25mm. Here's the part number #49350 comes with nut.

As for the plastic parts I'd just get the A tree parts #51351. A5 and the gear cover always comes in handy since that's the parts we unscrew the most and they do have a habit of losing their threads. As for A5, they do get broken occasionally, nice to have spares available.


yobouno 08-29-2012 06:09 AM


Originally Posted by stocker (Post 11149058)
Actually i wanted to use the 416 screw and nut for easy adjustment of the ball diff instead of having to remove the drive shaft. And the 416 nut is integrated into what is the plastic nut holder in the TB03 kit which looks stronger.

as far as I can tell, the cup size for the outdrives are 3mm apart. Theorectically, they should fit. I am basing this assessment with TA05 and TRF417 diff joint. Assuming Tamiya would prefer to only support 1 size fits all plastic shaft cushion for their drive shafts which is 3mm wide. The part number for the little plastic "nut" is #9804373. Unfortunately the screw is 22mm. I think you should be able to simply use the original screw.

Have a look at TRF416's manual here.

Recently, advise that have been given to me is tight front (spool preferred) and very loose rear. I used gear diff, with 300,000 wt front, and 30,000 wt rear (they asked me to go down to <10,000 wt). I was racing 21.5T blinky, the car was built 2 weeks before race and it came 8/11 at my first ever states title... am quite happy with my own performance and the car... There are still room to improve as far as my car goes, but have to sack the driver he's too slow... hahaha

stocker 08-29-2012 06:59 AM

I checked the current diff screw, there is quite a lot of thread sticking out the other side, I think 22mm may be able to work, worth a try.

How about the 5x1.5mm spacer in between the ball bearings on the hubs? Looks like it complements the 1050 bearings, much like the 5x1.9mm spacer #53891 to reduce stress on the bearings.



Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11149409)
as far as I can tell, the cup size for the outdrives are 3mm apart. Theorectically, they should fit. I am basing this assessment with TA05 and TRF417 diff joint. Assuming Tamiya would prefer to only support 1 size fits all plastic shaft cushion for their drive shafts which is 3mm wide. The part number for the little plastic "nut" is #9804373. Unfortunately the screw is 22mm. I think you should be able to simply use the original screw.

Have a look at TRF416's manual here.

Recently, advise that have been given to me is tight front (spool preferred) and very loose rear. I used gear diff, with 300,000 wt front, and 30,000 wt rear (they asked me to go down to <10,000 wt). I was racing 21.5T blinky, the car was built 2 weeks before race and it came 8/11 at my first ever states title... am quite happy with my own performance and the car... There are still room to improve as far as my car goes, but have to sack the driver he's too slow... hahaha


yobouno 08-29-2012 01:31 PM


Originally Posted by stocker (Post 11149563)
I checked the current diff screw, there is quite a lot of thread sticking out the other side, I think 22mm may be able to work, worth a try.

How about the 5x1.5mm spacer in between the ball bearings on the hubs? Looks like it complements the 1050 bearings, much like the 5x1.9mm spacer #53891 to reduce stress on the bearings.

Yes the spacer is designed to keep the bearings from fusing together. From the looks of the manual the TRF diff joint short bit is shorter than the ones for TB-03. I think try 5x1.9mm otherwise, vellrip has them on stock item code #9804372

I buy some of my stuff from them, they are in singapore. The spare parts that they carry are unbelievable... you can find almost any spares from them while no one else has them. http://www.vellrip.com/store/home.asp

NewWestF1 08-30-2012 09:28 PM

Just ordered my TB-03 and have some questions about tires... What's the best rubber tyre and wheel combo for parking lot and indoor. My outdoor track will be closing up shortly and the indoor will soon be opening. I'm going run the stock motor for now with programmable esc, I forget the brand right now. What'll give me decent grip and not kill the bank?

BTW this is my second car. My first is an FGX.

yobouno 08-30-2012 11:50 PM


Originally Posted by NewWestF1 (Post 11156591)
Just ordered my TB-03 and have some questions about tires... What's the best rubber tyre and wheel combo for parking lot and indoor. My outdoor track will be closing up shortly and the indoor will soon be opening. I'm going run the stock motor for now with programmable esc, I forget the brand right now. What'll give me decent grip and not kill the bank?

BTW this is my second car. My first is an FGX.

Assuming your summer is like winter in Australia, I'd still keep using 20 - 30D compounds (ie, soft to medium). One common thing with carparks around the world is dust and pebbles, nothing cheap really works... Sorex is the tyre of choice usually. Having said that, if your team/friends/racers are willing to do some prep work every race, try this... blow off as much debris as you can on the track using a leaf blower. The coat them with sugar water. Add as much sugar as you can till the sugar won't desolve anymore. Spray it thoroughly on your track, leave it for 20 mins. Then you'll find yourself with much more grip and with that you can go down to using muchmores or other slightly less expensive tyres.

We do that on our purpose build track at our club, and we runs medium hard in the middle of winter (avg 12'C)

NewWestF1 09-06-2012 10:18 PM

TB-03 in hand next week .. sooo excited .. getting a Mazda Furai body shell and some slick alloy rims and nice tyres .. have the original Impul Calsonic GT-R body too with polymer rims and better set of wheels .. yeah racing adjustable alloy rear wing and some carbon fibre sticker sheets for some crucial decoration .. i think at some point i will install a proper light kit too ..

going to run the stock motor for now . i guess a 540-J till i get the hang of driving it and the winter season passes .. will post pics when it's built .. using spaz stix paint to make her pretty holographic colour changing paint .. should be slick ..

OVA 09-08-2012 10:25 PM

gear diff is worth the money?


R-spec gear diff ever leak?

NewWestF1 09-09-2012 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11156872)
Assuming your summer is like winter in Australia, I'd still keep using 20 - 30D compounds (ie, soft to medium). One common thing with carparks around the world is dust and pebbles, nothing cheap really works... Sorex is the tyre of choice usually. Having said that, if your team/friends/racers are willing to do some prep work every race, try this... blow off as much debris as you can on the track using a leaf blower. The coat them with sugar water. Add as much sugar as you can till the sugar won't desolve anymore. Spray it thoroughly on your track, leave it for 20 mins. Then you'll find yourself with much more grip and with that you can go down to using muchmores or other slightly less expensive tyres.

We do that on our purpose build track at our club, and we runs medium hard in the middle of winter (avg 12'C)

thanks for the info . i wish we had a purpose built track here for on-road but alas off-road is definitely the thing around here . i found out with my FGX that slicks are useless for the 28*C days (pavement temp @ 40*C) we've had and that sugar water trick effectively leaves an syrop on the track with 0 grip (discovered that yesterday); our summers are like yours, hot but not as dry . :tire: gotta look into a bunch of tires and do some testing over the winter here ... found some foams from GQ that may work on pavement up here and researching other tires for a good cross section of what is available .. test test test .. i'll let you know what works in Vancouver in case you make the trip from Aus . Vancouver/Whistler are a kind of Little Sydney BTW .

yobouno 09-09-2012 07:15 PM


Originally Posted by OVA (Post 11189418)
gear diff is worth the money?


R-spec gear diff ever leak?

Depending if you're using it for front or rear... my TB03 is for drifting, I use one way front and gear diff rear. With the rear, I use 550 wt damper oil to keep it smooth, seems to be working and no leaks.

So far the gears inside haven't stripped on me yet. I stripped one from 3Racing on my mini. Overall they are definately easier to maintain, never have to rebuild them so far.

NewWestF1 09-18-2012 12:05 AM

wheel/tire question
 
so i'm building the TB-03 now and i'm thinking of getting some proper parking lot tires and foams for the winter carpet season .. integy has these billet machined alloy wheels with some decent looking tires i'm thinking of but i'm trying to figure out foams .. and widths .. what's the standard for TB-03 . 26mm? is that more or less the TC standard? and +3 offset would be 29mm? am i getting this right?

thanks. it's my second car, bear with me :)

yobouno 09-18-2012 02:47 PM


Originally Posted by NewWestF1 (Post 11223327)
so i'm building the TB-03 now and i'm thinking of getting some proper parking lot tires and foams for the winter carpet season .. integy has these billet machined alloy wheels with some decent looking tires i'm thinking of but i'm trying to figure out foams .. and widths .. what's the standard for TB-03 . 26mm? is that more or less the TC standard? and +3 offset would be 29mm? am i getting this right?

thanks. it's my second car, bear with me :)

I found TB-03 can't keep up with even Sakura Zero S. The gearing ratio is too big, I changed to a TA05 V2 for that reason. As for your winter carpet season, you better ask the club, they may have control tyres.

The +3 offset meant it'll make the width of the car wider when you put on those tyres. The tyre width is still the same, but say if you use the standard plastic wheel hex which is 5mm. + 3 offset will move your tyre position 3mm further out. (I hope I'm making sense to you.) Just make sure you've got a axle that will fit it, or use a shorter wheel nut. +3mm on the rear add extra stability to the car. What is your rear toe? Try go towards -3.5 or -4. -2.5 is not enough

NewWestF1 09-18-2012 03:43 PM

makes perfect sense . haven't gotten to set up just yet, still building . i squeeze in what i can between daddy sessions with my 3 y/o . i will follow that rear toe set up and see how that works .

i'm fairly new to RC so i don't need fast, stable and consistent is fine for me as of now . i'll deal with fast when/if the time comes . to be truthful what i love is the build and tweak process .


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11225833)
I found TB-03 can't keep up with even Sakura Zero S. The gearing ratio is too big, I changed to a TA05 V2 for that reason. As for your winter carpet season, you better ask the club, they may have control tyres.

The +3 offset meant it'll make the width of the car wider when you put on those tyres. The tyre width is still the same, but say if you use the standard plastic wheel hex which is 5mm. + 3 offset will move your tyre position 3mm further out. (I hope I'm making sense to you.) Just make sure you've got a axle that will fit it, or use a shorter wheel nut. +3mm on the rear add extra stability to the car. What is your rear toe? Try go towards -3.5 or -4. -2.5 is not enough


yobouno 09-19-2012 04:59 AM


Originally Posted by NewWestF1 (Post 11226059)
makes perfect sense . haven't gotten to set up just yet, still building . i squeeze in what i can between daddy sessions with my 3 y/o . i will follow that rear toe set up and see how that works .

i'm fairly new to RC so i don't need fast, stable and consistent is fine for me as of now . i'll deal with fast when/if the time comes . to be truthful what i love is the build and tweak process .

Build yes, I love it... I do occasionally build minis to sell.

Tweak/ race tune... not so much, they are a real pain, need to be patient and getting a car to a perfect balance is just quite impossible.

Got to say, I need more guidance on tuning as well... these car are quite sensitive, things won't work properly if you over tighthen. Screws goes missing if they are not tighten enough.... Sometimes it can be frustrating... :flaming:

WongTamiya 09-24-2012 04:33 PM

Someone has probably asked this before, but does anyone have trouble fitting a lipo in the chassis? I'm using Gens Ace Lipos, but I'm looking to buy either a ThunderPower lipo, or a reedy shorty lipo for my tb03

yobouno 09-24-2012 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by WongTamiya (Post 11249140)
Someone has probably asked this before, but does anyone have trouble fitting a lipo in the chassis? I'm using Gens Ace Lipos, but I'm looking to buy either a ThunderPower lipo, or a reedy shorty lipo for my tb03

Tamiya Bathtub are designed to fit the round edges lipo. Only good brand that has them are orion... Anyway....

Easiest way to fit a square lipo, is add about 4mm spacer on to your battery holder screw. That's how I did it to mine...

The down side is, this will put the battery very close to the drive shaft. There are a couple of another option that I did consider.

Remove the flange that holds the battery inside the tub, just remove the one closer to the tub edge.... but this require a lot of work (Dremel, sanding, etc)...

Alternatively change to use the Carbon fibre chassis from 3Racing. They are designed to fit a lipo pack. And it looks pretty neat.

WongTamiya 09-24-2012 07:21 PM


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11249231)
Tamiya Bathtub are designed to fit the round edges lipo. Only good brand that has them are orion... Anyway....

Easiest way to fit a square lipo, is add about 4mm spacer on to your battery holder screw. That's how I did it to mine...

The down side is, this will put the battery very close to the drive shaft. There are a couple of another option that I did consider.

Remove the flange that holds the battery inside the tub, just remove the one closer to the tub edge.... but this require a lot of work (Dremel, sanding, etc)...

Alternatively change to use the Carbon fibre chassis from 3Racing. They are designed to fit a lipo pack. And it looks pretty neat.

The 3Racing Chassis isn't really an option for me at this time. I'm looking to race TCS. I don't know if removing the flange would count as modifying the chassis. What Orion Round Lipos are there? Also, does anyone use a shorty for the tb03? I think it would help balance the chassis.

CraigMBA 09-24-2012 07:48 PM

If somebody wanted to build one of these, and considering the R spec one is tough to find, does somebody buy the drift model and one of the available kits and builds a Frankenstein hybrid?

Otherwise it seems prohibitively expensive.

yobouno 09-25-2012 03:32 AM


Originally Posted by WongTamiya (Post 11249979)
The 3Racing Chassis isn't really an option for me at this time. I'm looking to race TCS. I don't know if removing the flange would count as modifying the chassis. What Orion Round Lipos are there? Also, does anyone use a shorty for the tb03? I think it would help balance the chassis.

The Orion Round Lipo are called Rocket Pack.

Here's the Link
http://www.rcmart.com/team-orion-ori...l?cPath=52_973

yobouno 09-25-2012 03:33 AM


Originally Posted by WongTamiya (Post 11249979)
The 3Racing Chassis isn't really an option for me at this time. I'm looking to race TCS. I don't know if removing the flange would count as modifying the chassis. What Orion Round Lipos are there? Also, does anyone use a shorty for the tb03? I think it would help balance the chassis.

Why not just add spacer? Easiest and cheapest solution.

yobouno 09-25-2012 07:07 AM


Originally Posted by CraigMBA (Post 11250104)
If somebody wanted to build one of these, and considering the R spec one is tough to find, does somebody buy the drift model and one of the available kits and builds a Frankenstein hybrid?

Otherwise it seems prohibitively expensive.

I've got a TB03-R for sale if you're interested... I've built TB03-D spec and normal TB03 before... the chassis is the same as TB03 (any version). I have alsp converted a normal TB03 with IFS to TB03D layout. These are easy to do and not really that expensive to do.

The new TB03 VDF is a different design though, if I remember correctly, TB03VDF mount the motor to the front of the chassis. As far as I can tell, the only thing that is common in this chassis and the other TB03 versions are the gear covers, everything else looks like a total redesign, and why would you want to put parts from a normal TB03 on this chassis? It comes with Carbon Fibre chassis, don't see any advantage to make a VDF frankenstein. Or Vice Versa, the design is so different, you can't really modify a normal plastic chassis to fit the VDS layout.

CraigMBA 09-25-2012 08:08 AM

I want to run the TCS series, so carbon is out.

The spec R is an enormous deal if you want all the aluminum bits that matter.

yobouno 09-25-2012 02:38 PM


Originally Posted by CraigMBA (Post 11251712)
I want to run the TCS series, so carbon is out.

The spec R is an enormous deal if you want all the aluminum bits that matter.

Yes, that's why I've bought them, and bought too many of them. So anyone looking for a TB03-R got one for sale. $260 + postage.

WongTamiya 09-26-2012 05:34 PM

Why is the tb03 so unpopular? This thread is practically dead. After so long, you would think there would be more than 136 pages. :/

yobouno 09-26-2012 06:35 PM


Originally Posted by WongTamiya (Post 11257782)
Why is the tb03 so unpopular? This thread is practically dead. After so long, you would think there would be more than 136 pages. :/

:lol::lol::lol: you're funny! TB03 is not unpopular, but the competition is steep!

Within Tamiya itself TB03 got TT01 which is cheaper and possibly almost as good to compete with, then Yokomo D1 Drift package, practically same design, comes with Bathtub and Carbon fibre chassis for almost the same price. Not to mention HPI and Hot bodies... There are so many choices out there to compete with TB03.

IMHO, TB03 only performs well in one area which is drift, and there are many drift chassis out there that is either cheaper, or as good or both.

In stock or any tourer and even TCS world, TB03 lacks the speed it needs to be competitive. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of TB03, but I have to turn to TA05 V2 or TRF to get the speed I need to compete. That leaves my TB03 for drifting. To make matters worst, the only place that have organised drift sessions don't even allow TB03, it's either YOKOMO or 3Racing... so at this moment, my TB03 is being shelved because it cannot be used in events that I participate in.

TB03 is a good chassis, unfortunately the gearing is not that great. It can give TA06 some hard time, but it won't be able to keep up with a TA05 V2. Sad but the tech spec doesn't lie.

WongTamiya 09-26-2012 08:32 PM


Originally Posted by yobouno (Post 11258049)
:lol::lol::lol: you're funny! TB03 is not unpopular, but the competition is steep!

Within Tamiya itself TB03 got TT01 which is cheaper and possibly almost as good to compete with, then Yokomo D1 Drift package, practically same design, comes with Bathtub and Carbon fibre chassis for almost the same price. Not to mention HPI and Hot bodies... There are so many choices out there to compete with TB03.

IMHO, TB03 only performs well in one area which is drift, and there are many drift chassis out there that is either cheaper, or as good or both.

In stock or any tourer and even TCS world, TB03 lacks the speed it needs to be competitive. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of TB03, but I have to turn to TA05 V2 or TRF to get the speed I need to compete. That leaves my TB03 for drifting. To make matters worst, the only place that have organised drift sessions don't even allow TB03, it's either YOKOMO or 3Racing... so at this moment, my TB03 is being shelved because it cannot be used in events that I participate in.

TB03 is a good chassis, unfortunately the gearing is not that great. It can give TA06 some hard time, but it won't be able to keep up with a TA05 V2. Sad but the tech spec doesn't lie.

Meh. Funny I actually prefer the Tb03 over the ta05 v2 R in touring. The last three people who won TCS must have done something right. :D I don't know about drift, but I've been looking into it. You never know, when you're young you wanna try so many different things.:smile:

NewWestF1 09-26-2012 09:07 PM

Next stop .. Paint ..
 
2 Attachment(s)
got my TB-03 Impul GT-R mostly built. battery, speedo and rx going in next ... going to paint this weekend, i hope anyway .. gotta find the spaz stix supplier in vancouver :(

1.0* toe-in rear w/1* camber; 1.5* toe-out front w/2.5* camber .. adjustable yeah racing rear wing is the only upgrade, rest is stock ... the planned paint will not be ..


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