Tekin RS ESC sensored
02-02-2010, 08:37 AM
Tech Master
The motor keeps accelerating till it reaches it's max RPM's that it will have by for instance 10 degrees of timing.
As 10 degrees of timing is standing for a RPM of 10.000 And it's added between 1000 and 5000. Than will the motor keep accelerating till 10.000.
When you ad from 0 or from a RPM point like for instance ad 4000 comes 10 timing in ad once. Than will the motor accelerate to 10.000 but because you ad it ad once, you need to gear much lighter.
See it as your gearing in your car.
As you drive away in 1st gear, than you will have a good acceleration and each time you will gear up and the car will accelerate till a point that reaches it's max.
When you want to reach a point that can be reached in 4th gear and you set your car in 4th gear and drive away, you will see that the car will accelerate slowly till a point that it can handle the gearing and it will accelerate faster.
This is the same with the Tekin software.
By letting it come in, in a RPM window, you will have more acceleration power because the timing is in the beginning low and higher's when the motor has more RPM. Than it can handle more timing and this way the car can handle more timing.
As 10 degrees of timing is standing for a RPM of 10.000 And it's added between 1000 and 5000. Than will the motor keep accelerating till 10.000.
When you ad from 0 or from a RPM point like for instance ad 4000 comes 10 timing in ad once. Than will the motor accelerate to 10.000 but because you ad it ad once, you need to gear much lighter.
See it as your gearing in your car.
As you drive away in 1st gear, than you will have a good acceleration and each time you will gear up and the car will accelerate till a point that reaches it's max.
When you want to reach a point that can be reached in 4th gear and you set your car in 4th gear and drive away, you will see that the car will accelerate slowly till a point that it can handle the gearing and it will accelerate faster.
This is the same with the Tekin software.
By letting it come in, in a RPM window, you will have more acceleration power because the timing is in the beginning low and higher's when the motor has more RPM. Than it can handle more timing and this way the car can handle more timing.
02-02-2010, 08:43 AM
Those are exactly the kind of questions I have too. I tried to figure it out but we need more info from Tekin. It seems to me that right now you need a data logger if you don't want to try blindly setups and risk frying something.
In short, if the motor winds up to the max RPM it will just stay there (or continue accelerating without more timing being added until some limiting factor stops it - think brushed motors). Turbo can help here if set up properly it takes over and continues adding timing. How smooth the transition happens depends on how well you read what happens to your motor. This is where the data logger can help immensely.
If the motor can not spin up to the max RPM, it will not get all the timing boost. Perhaps this is the more undesirable situation of the two because if the motor can not spin up it means that you're geared too heavy.
In short, if the motor winds up to the max RPM it will just stay there (or continue accelerating without more timing being added until some limiting factor stops it - think brushed motors). Turbo can help here if set up properly it takes over and continues adding timing. How smooth the transition happens depends on how well you read what happens to your motor. This is where the data logger can help immensely.
If the motor can not spin up to the max RPM, it will not get all the timing boost. Perhaps this is the more undesirable situation of the two because if the motor can not spin up it means that you're geared too heavy.
02-02-2010, 08:51 AM
Not necessarily. There are other limiting factors when you're driving a motor attached to the wheels of a car. Your motor might actually top out at exactly 10k RPM (by chance or design). That means you get your boost, spool up to 10k RPM and stay there. Under no load yes, I agree, the motor might continue to spool up, but in a car the question needs more qualification of the actual running conditions.
That's why I asked for more clarification from team Tekin about the way boost and turbo actually work. This may mean that they need to reveal sensitive information, but I see no other way to avoid costly mistakes.
02-02-2010, 09:05 AM
Schreff, sorry about the brake strength. It wasn't in your setup list. I corrected it. And for those who missed it it's here again.
I would really like to give a huge huge Congratulations to the entire Tekin team. Without you guys, your dedication, your hard work we would not be here to day. I can honestly say we have the BEST race team in rc right now. Your willingness to share setups, support anyone and everyone at the track is unmatched. Great Job guys!
02-02-2010, 09:09 AM
The 'ramp' determines how quickly the timing is added for the turbo function only, correct? And the 'start/end RPM' determine how quickly the timing is added for the boost function?
So it seems that Schreff is reversing the two functions somewhat. With no turbo delay and a later start RPM, he is letting the turbo start sooner for bottom end and then letting the boost carry on through the mid and top end.
So it seems that Schreff is reversing the two functions somewhat. With no turbo delay and a later start RPM, he is letting the turbo start sooner for bottom end and then letting the boost carry on through the mid and top end.
02-02-2010, 09:26 AM
i've been running one in my 12th scale for a while and its very much equal to the Duo's and the LRPs
02-02-2010, 09:43 AM
The setup posted above comes against what we have been instructed to do when setting the system up (i.e. set boost first then move on to turbo if required). The confusion was further increased by the glitch in the software that required a boost setting of at least 1 for the turbo to operate. This idea is a clever way to sidestep the RPM dependence of timing and its associated problems (see above). Gearing has to be right though otherwise I can see lots of smoke happening.
Wish I were sponsored by Tekin so I can test without fear of blowing something up.
I congratulate the Team for its recent success and indeed commend your work (quality product and customer service) but I think for the end user things are starting to get complicated. We need a laptop (most would have one by now), a little dealie (hotwire) and a data logger now. Remember too that most end users don't have unlimited track time (in my case I can only test things once a week, 20 minutes in total of actual racing plus whatever I can squeeze in during practice). I really can not afford to blow something up, drop another 300$ and wait for two weeks thus missing one race day.
And I think these fears keep a lot of people (at least at my club) away from Tekin. They have seen it, they know it's fast, they know how well it works, yet they just don't want to lug around a laptop and waste time setting things up on it when they can press a few buttons in matter of seconds.
Last edited by niznai; 02-02-2010 at 10:08 AM.
02-02-2010, 09:56 AM
something up.
I congratulate the Team for its recent success and indeed commend your work (quality product and customer service) but I think for the end user things are starting to get complicated. We need a laptop (most would have one by now), a little dealie (hotwire) and a data logger now. Remember too that most end users don't have unlimited track time (in my case I can only test things once a week, 20 minutes in total of actual racing plus whatever I can squeeze in during practice). I really can not afford to blow something up, drop another 300$ and wait for two weeks thus missing one race day.
And I think these fears keep a lot of people (at least at my club) away from Tekin. They have seen it, they know it's fast, they know how well it works, yet they just don't want to lug around a laptop and waste time setting things up on it when they can press a few buttons in matter of seconds.
I congratulate the Team for its recent success and indeed commend your work (quality product and customer service) but I think for the end user things are starting to get complicated. We need a laptop (most would have one by now), a little dealie (hotwire) and a data logger now. Remember too that most end users don't have unlimited track time (in my case I can only test things once a week, 20 minutes in total of actual racing plus whatever I can squeeze in during practice). I really can not afford to blow something up, drop another 300$ and wait for two weeks thus missing one race day.
And I think these fears keep a lot of people (at least at my club) away from Tekin. They have seen it, they know it's fast, they know how well it works, yet they just don't want to lug around a laptop and waste time setting things up on it when they can press a few buttons in matter of seconds.
02-02-2010, 10:09 AM
I think some people are getting confused about the rpm settings. For the following discussion, ignore turbo. I'm just talking boost here.
1. The upper RPM setting has NOTHING to with the top rpm the motor is capable of achieving unless it is set higher than the highest rpm the motor can reach. The amount of total timing going to the motor is the main factor here, though there are others. All it does is determine the RPM point that the motor reaches max timing.
2. The idea is NOT to match the upper rpm point to the motor's max rpm. If you did this, you would never get max timing on the track.
3. A data logger is not necessary, though I could see it being useful. Using the good starting set-ups people are posting here will get you in the ballpark. A little testing and experimentation on the track can find you the rest.
I'm going to try and write up something about a theoretical way to maximize all this but I need to think it through a bit.
1. The upper RPM setting has NOTHING to with the top rpm the motor is capable of achieving unless it is set higher than the highest rpm the motor can reach. The amount of total timing going to the motor is the main factor here, though there are others. All it does is determine the RPM point that the motor reaches max timing.
2. The idea is NOT to match the upper rpm point to the motor's max rpm. If you did this, you would never get max timing on the track.
3. A data logger is not necessary, though I could see it being useful. Using the good starting set-ups people are posting here will get you in the ballpark. A little testing and experimentation on the track can find you the rest.
I'm going to try and write up something about a theoretical way to maximize all this but I need to think it through a bit.
02-02-2010, 10:11 AM
Dude this stuff is NOT rocket science, EVERYONE could easily have their software settings configured to a reasonable baseline for their motor and cell config, and just adjust gearing like every other speedo. You do not need a laptop at the track, last time I was there I only adjusted drag brake, which can be done with the buttons. The settings are there if you want to play with them in detail, but it's not a requirement.
I am not sure how you do it but it doesn't work for everyone. I prefer to think myself what I do considering that I pay for what I burn up. And I think that's a pretty basic concept of private ownership and its associated responsibilities shared by most people.
02-02-2010, 10:19 AM
Plus, most of the motors I have seen tend to fall off quite a bit before they burn. If your laptimes are dropping off hard, stop. Back off your settings a bit and try again.
Also, with this software, pushing the motor to near it's melting point does NOT seem to result in the fastest runs. A little less aggressive set-up seems to yield much better results.
02-02-2010, 10:25 AM
Why are you so afraid of blowing stuff up? Have you been blowing stuff up? If you start with the suggestions on here and start a little conservative, you should NOT blow anything up. Run a few minutes and check temps. If everything is ok, try going a little further.
Plus, most of the motors I have seen tend to fall off quite a bit before they burn. If your laptimes are dropping off hard, stop. Back off your settings a bit and try again.
Also, with this software, pushing the motor to near it's melting point does NOT seem to result in the fastest runs. A little less aggressive set-up seems to yield much better results.
Plus, most of the motors I have seen tend to fall off quite a bit before they burn. If your laptimes are dropping off hard, stop. Back off your settings a bit and try again.
Also, with this software, pushing the motor to near it's melting point does NOT seem to result in the fastest runs. A little less aggressive set-up seems to yield much better results.
There's plenty of good advice from team drivers and club racers over the last several hundred pages - there's even a post including an EagleTree data log graph (check page 693 in this thread) for a 17.5 rubber tire TC. With all of the information available, you should feel confident in finding a setup that works for you. If all else fails, consult the team setups found on the Tekin website, knock a few points off of the timing and turbo settings, and start there...
Last edited by oeoeo327; 02-02-2010 at 11:23 AM.
02-02-2010, 10:43 AM
Indirectly. Boost is dependent on how quickly your motor spools up from start RPm to top RPM too. That depends on how quickly your car can physically accelerate and the software has no control on that. Gearing does. So in the end the boost "ramp" is decided by all this mix but most importantly by your gearing. Playing with start and end RPM may or may not offset this. Having the powerband/torque/efficiency map of your motor would make an important difference.
The setup posted above comes against what we have been instructed to do when setting the system up (i.e. set boost first then move on to turbo if required). The confusion was further increased by the glitch in the software that required a boost setting of at least 1 for the turbo to operate. This idea is a clever way to sidestep the RPM dependence of timing and its associated problems (see above). Gearing has to be right though otherwise I can see lots of smoke happening.
Wish I were sponsored by Tekin so I can test without fear of blowing something up.
I congratulate the Team for its recent success and indeed commend your work (quality product and customer service) but I think for the end user things are starting to get complicated. We need a laptop (most would have one by now), a little dealie (hotwire) and a data logger now. Remember too that most end users don't have unlimited track time (in my case I can only test things once a week, 20 minutes in total of actual racing plus whatever I can squeeze in during practice). I really can not afford to blow something up, drop another 300$ and wait for two weeks thus missing one race day.
And I think these fears keep a lot of people (at least at my club) away from Tekin. They have seen it, they know it's fast, they know how well it works, yet they just don't want to lug around a laptop and waste time setting things up on it when they can press a few buttons in matter of seconds.
The setup posted above comes against what we have been instructed to do when setting the system up (i.e. set boost first then move on to turbo if required). The confusion was further increased by the glitch in the software that required a boost setting of at least 1 for the turbo to operate. This idea is a clever way to sidestep the RPM dependence of timing and its associated problems (see above). Gearing has to be right though otherwise I can see lots of smoke happening.
Wish I were sponsored by Tekin so I can test without fear of blowing something up.
I congratulate the Team for its recent success and indeed commend your work (quality product and customer service) but I think for the end user things are starting to get complicated. We need a laptop (most would have one by now), a little dealie (hotwire) and a data logger now. Remember too that most end users don't have unlimited track time (in my case I can only test things once a week, 20 minutes in total of actual racing plus whatever I can squeeze in during practice). I really can not afford to blow something up, drop another 300$ and wait for two weeks thus missing one race day.
And I think these fears keep a lot of people (at least at my club) away from Tekin. They have seen it, they know it's fast, they know how well it works, yet they just don't want to lug around a laptop and waste time setting things up on it when they can press a few buttons in matter of seconds.
02-02-2010, 10:43 AM
[...]
3. A data logger is not necessary, though I could see it being useful. Using the good starting set-ups people are posting here will get you in the ballpark. A little testing and experimentation on the track can find you the rest.
I'm going to try and write up something about a theoretical way to maximize all this but I need to think it through a bit.
I confess, you're way better than me.
The theoretical way to do it is quite clear and very simple. Get the right timing at the right RPM. The devil is in the detail. We don't have any info of actual RPM and this is the primary input in the setup procedure. That's where things like the datalogger can help.
But the most disappointing part is that we need to solve a problem by guessing because we don't have all the data we need to use reason and logic. This is perhaps one of the most effective ways to discourage people to even try.
02-02-2010, 10:52 AM
Why are you so afraid of blowing stuff up? Have you been blowing stuff up? If you start with the suggestions on here and start a little conservative, you should NOT blow anything up. Run a few minutes and check temps. If everything is ok, try going a little further.
Plus, most of the motors I have seen tend to fall off quite a bit before they burn. If your laptimes are dropping off hard, stop. Back off your settings a bit and try again.
Also, with this software, pushing the motor to near it's melting point does NOT seem to result in the fastest runs. A little less aggressive set-up seems to yield much better results.
Plus, most of the motors I have seen tend to fall off quite a bit before they burn. If your laptimes are dropping off hard, stop. Back off your settings a bit and try again.
Also, with this software, pushing the motor to near it's melting point does NOT seem to result in the fastest runs. A little less aggressive set-up seems to yield much better results.
I have never blown anything up (yet). But I have seen people go through two speedies and two motors in one race (that's about 1k AU$ in one day). I can not afford that, sorry.
But I don't mind that either. It's the time I simply don't have to enjoy the hobby I love most. Besides, thinking about things doesn't cost money and more often that guessing leads to the correct result. Plus I can do it wherever I am even when I can't race. Guessing goes exactly the other way. You can guess all day long, without testing you get nowhere. And when you can only test one thing once a week, it kinda becomes pointless.